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Post by Hodge on Apr 1, 2015 14:58:53 GMT
Earlier someone said this was George's "Yukon" moment. It seems more like his Ava Moon moment. Somehow George looked at the system and didn't think he was going to get justice out of it. So he took matters into his own hands, just as William took matters into his own hands (and acted illegally) when he let Ava Moon out of jail. William paid the price by first resigning from the constabulary, and then living with the lie he told in order to preserve the Inspector's job. Also, he had to live with the suspicions and mockery of Giles - being referred to as a "scofflaw" instead of enjoying an upstanding reputation. William still got to be a detective, though. My question is: if George is essentially doing the same thing - covering up to let the lady escape, to see real justice done, etc... should he have to pay a greater price than William did just because he happened to be lower on the totem pole when the lie occurred? Well I think it's too soon to presume anything. Right now we're stuck with the assumption, by William and Brackenreid, that he's guilty of murder, not just covering up a crime. We have a long wait until we find out just what the outcome of this is going to be. Patience snacky!
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Post by Hodge on Apr 1, 2015 15:02:03 GMT
I think this link was blocked/illegal for some reason. It doesn't even show when I try to reply to you. Oh that's so weird! Let me try again. xScrubs? ?
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Post by Hodge on Apr 1, 2015 15:07:21 GMT
Questions that were frustratingly left unanswered by S8, or they were left hanging at the end of it: - Why haven't William & Julia brought a house? - Is William in contact with his father and half-brother? If he is then why weren't they at the wedding? - Where is Ruby Ogden these days? Why wasn't she at the wedding? - Is George still in contact with his mother? - Where do George, Emily and Higgins live these days? - Does Emily see her family? - Does Higgins have family? - Does Higgins ever date? - Where is the constables car? - How long did Hodges get in prison? - What's Pendrick up to these days? Hopefully S9 puts more of the focus back in William and Julia's direction, I don't necessary mean their relationship, because I can do without more forced drama, but more focus on their characters in general. Have Julia involved in cases again as she's only been involved in a handful of them this season. That is how she should primarily fit into the show, as it is a crime drama. And please, please, please finally give Higgins a centric storyline and a love interest! It's been nine seasons, and it's his time to shine. The others have had their turns numerous times already, so as a secondary cast member he deserves to shine at least once. Of all your questions the only one I asked was where's the constables' car? I guess we shouldn't be surprised it didn't show up again. Perhaps they sold it after it kept breaking down, they had someone willing to buy it. I suspect we may see more of Higgins in S9 depending on how George's story goes.
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Post by Mrs. Meyers on Apr 1, 2015 15:47:17 GMT
OH HALE NO
WTF! Not even a kiss between William and Julia in the finale of the season that had the "Wedding" (if we can call it that) or "Honeymoon" (if we can call it THAT...)?!?!?!?!
Long time lurker here and I know the people here are way too gracious and classy to say something like this but I gotta let it out GET RID OF DR. GRACE!!!! She is useless and has made Julia useless with her presence. Of course it's nice to see another female presence and their rapport is awesome but they cancel each other out because they are so similar. There is simply not enough time on the show for two characters like this. Btw, nothing against the actress, I know she's just doing her job and doing what the writers tell her to sooooo..... FIGURE IT OUT WRITERS!!! Maybe strengthen her character so she can stand up to the original four already well-defined characters... please do something... ANYTHING. LOL - well that's putting your cards on the table. And welcome. I used to feel the same way, especially when Emily's romantic life started being a carbon copy of Julia's. However, IMHO Emily was given a new lease on life this year. She actually got more definitive personality characteristics - especially in the thrillseeker area. I hope to see that played up to the max! While everyone else is hoping Emily will make the Lillian character "less rude", I'm kind of hoping that Lillian will make Emily more of a rabble-rouser - that will separate her more from Julia's "middle class" character. We do all miss seeing Julia in the morgue, but that ship has sailed. That would be a "demotion" for Julia's character now. I'd like to see Julia back in a lab/pathology setting, but I'm hoping the writers can do that without putting her back in the morgue. Also - getting rid of Emily now would be getting rid of the LGBT couple, just when MM is wandering into some interesting experimental territory there. Very well put. I'm really enjoying the Emily/Lillian romance and I hope they remain a couple.
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Post by snacky on Apr 1, 2015 16:58:35 GMT
Questions that were frustratingly left unanswered by S8, or they were left hanging at the end of it: - Why haven't William & Julia brought a house? - Is William in contact with his father and half-brother? If he is then why weren't they at the wedding? - Where is Ruby Ogden these days? Why wasn't she at the wedding? - Is George still in contact with his mother? - Where do George, Emily and Higgins live these days? - Does Emily see her family? - Does Higgins have family? - Does Higgins ever date? - Where is the constables car? - How long did Hodges get in prison? - What's Pendrick up to these days? Hopefully S9 puts more of the focus back in William and Julia's direction, I don't necessary mean their relationship, because I can do without more forced drama, but more focus on their characters in general. Have Julia involved in cases again as she's only been involved in a handful of them this season. That is how she should primarily fit into the show, as it is a crime drama. And please, please, please finally give Higgins a centric storyline and a love interest! It's been nine seasons, and it's his time to shine. The others have had their turns numerous times already, so as a secondary cast member he deserves to shine at least once. Of all your questions the only one I asked was where's the constables' car? I guess we shouldn't be surprised it didn't show up again. Perhaps they sold it after it kept breaking down, they had someone willing to buy it. I suspect we may see more of Higgins in S9 depending on how George's story goes. LOL - I've been dying to see the Bro Mobile again too!!!! What a great prop - The Lord of All Prop Monkeys shouldn't be hiding it! The other questions are good questions, but answering them leads into side plots, and away from central mysteries. I would say the show should only bother to answer them if they do happen to integrate into a mystery they are working on, or if they can casually answer the question in passing. They should be very careful about leaving such loose threads hanging, especially for "subplot" characters. I'm sure Higgins has his day coming soon! And my money is still on Higgins sashaying around town with the rich widow attending to his every whim!
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Post by snacky on Apr 1, 2015 17:09:07 GMT
George killed Mr. Brooks. Or he took the blame for it, to shield Edna. And one can understand this. Stuff like wife-beating wasn't illegal in 1902. Marital rape wasn't considered illegal until the 1970s and 80s. If George intended to arrest Mr. Brooks, about the only thing he could charge him with would be 'assault and battery' or 'disturbing the peace'. And you can't exactly go to jail for that. Domestic violence wasn't considered a crime. And even if Edna's husband did go to jail, as Simon said - he'll go to jail. Then he'll come out. And then everything goes right back to where it was. What solution is that? There were no things such as restraining orders back then. I hope they do go over the law in these matters because I'm sure there will be a lot of questions about why George didn't immediately go after and arrest Brooks the minute he saw Edna, no matter what Edna said. This is probably a good piece of exposition for William if he's speculating on what George did and why. btw, this also reminds me of Kung Fu Crabtree and the brother taking the rap for the sister. Wonder if George got any ideas from that? I didn't think George's plot was that predictable, but I did I feel the Hunger Games/Most Dangerous Game plot was a bit rushed. This is how I've felt about the mystery plots all season, though. When they are combined with another major storyline, there isn't as much time to develop the mystery. The better the mystery idea, the more I feel a little short-changed. Oh I just realized the "distraction" at the end might have been a homage to Magritte surrealist paintings with all the bureaucratic men in business suits/hats! LOL! A little bit of MM surrealism there.
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Post by snacky on Apr 1, 2015 17:10:37 GMT
Well I think it's too soon to presume anything. Right now we're stuck with the assumption, by William and Brackenreid, that he's guilty of murder, not just covering up a crime. We have a long wait until we find out just what the outcome of this is going to be. Patience snacky! Moi?
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Post by snacky on Apr 1, 2015 17:15:01 GMT
I agree with him. In many ways, Lillian's character is a double edged sword. She is picking important fights that most peeps would shy away from, but her language and tactics also have a strong tendency to alienate the masses. You have hit the nail squarely on the head! Lillian's counter argument would be: when do the masses do anything when things run as expected, giving no cause for change? It is when things go wrong and they are inconvenienced and appalled that they are jarred into attention. (I should go read the Pankhursts for their actual argument for breaking the windows of Parliament...) (Which is ironic since all the trouble in New York - re:US radical politics - resulted from "Broken Windows Policing" - lol!)
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Post by lovemondays on Apr 1, 2015 17:22:55 GMT
George killed Mr. Brooks. Or he took the blame for it, to shield Edna. And one can understand this. Stuff like wife-beating wasn't illegal in 1902. Marital rape wasn't considered illegal until the 1970s and 80s. If George intended to arrest Mr. Brooks, about the only thing he could charge him with would be 'assault and battery' or 'disturbing the peace'. And you can't exactly go to jail for that. Domestic violence wasn't considered a crime. And even if Edna's husband did go to jail, as Simon said - he'll go to jail. Then he'll come out. And then everything goes right back to where it was. What solution is that? There were no things such as restraining orders back then. I hope they do go over the law in these matters because I'm sure there will be a lot of questions about why George didn't immediately go after and arrest Brooks the minute he saw Edna, no matter what Edna said. This is probably a good piece of exposition for William if he's speculating on what George did and why. btw, this also reminds me of Kung Fu Crabtree and the brother taking the rap for the sister. Wonder if George got any ideas from that? I didn't think George's plot was that predictable, but I did I feel the Hunger Games/Most Dangerous Game plot was a bit rushed. This is how I've felt about the mystery plots all season, though. When they are combined with another major storyline, there isn't as much time to develop the mystery. The better the mystery idea, the more I feel a little short-changed. Oh I just realized the "distraction" at the end might have been a homage to Magritte surrealist paintings with all the bureaucratic men in business suits/hats! LOL! A little bit of MM surrealism there. That was my Thomas Crowne reference, the Pierce Brosnan version. The character loved that Magritte painting and used the iconography to create mayhem in the climax.
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Post by snacky on Apr 1, 2015 17:40:00 GMT
I just think that it's hard to just show a marraige being happy and have it be interesting for an audience...folks here mentioned the Joss Wheldon thing. William and Julia had their share of drama and it's kinda shifted to giving George or Emily the major love interest drama this season. It's not like Julia and Murdoch haven't had their share of issues...just not with each other. This is difficult for a show to handle when they finally marry the two top characters...they have to find more ways to make it interesting despite having given us the "happy ending" we all wanted. I mean...how much more you want to happen? Julia's been buried alive, got married, had that hubby murdered, was framed for the murder, had a noose around her neck, THEN she was threatened by fake Gilles, had to avoid Murdoch like the plague for a while and finally had to reveal it to him leading to them both having to lock themselves in a hotel for protection. Haven't those poor folks been through enough? :-) It seems like this was the writer's line of thinking - the William/Julia arc is done, time to move on to the next couple. However, this is not how viewers think. I try not to make huge generalizations about viewers, but I think it's pretty safe to say that viewers en masse get invested in the characters they watch over time. After 7 seasons of emotional investment, that interest doesn't suddenly drop after those characters get married. That would be equating marriage with character death. A marriage should only be a "happy ending" if the show itself is ending. Since the show is called Murdoch Mysteries, everyone expected the show to continue to focus on William Murdoch, even after he was married. Now I'm going to take off my "all viewers" hat and get into what probably would have made the shipper contingent happy. Since the marriage part of William's character, shippers expected to see occasional forensic/trace evidence of it - the token of affection, a kiss to indicate there was still a love life. I also believe female viewers across the board, not just shippers, and perhaps a lot of male ones as well, regarded Julia as a central ensemble character. They did not want to see her replaced by Emily. It's not a matter of putting Julia through more "romantic adventures" with William - it's a matter of finding ways that allow her to work with William to help solve the mysteries because there are a number of viewers who enjoy seeing a "Woman of Action" contributing to solving the mysteries in William's world. It's part of what gives MM's version of historic Toronto a special flavor.
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Post by snacky on Apr 1, 2015 17:43:35 GMT
That was my Thomas Crowne reference, the Pierce Brosnan version. The character loved that Magritte painting and used the iconography to create mayhem in the climax. I don't know if you remember all my MM/surrealism posts (ramping up to the Noir-Charmante Manifesto), but I feel I might have gotten a wink there.
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Post by snacky on Apr 1, 2015 17:48:52 GMT
I kinda of agree. They kinda went as far as they could with Pendrick...how many times can he have an invention and have it be topped by Thomas Edison or something? It's kinda like Gilles...you could only have him torture Murdoch and Julia with genius plans so many times before it got a little too much...they ended him at about the right time as well. Perhaps a new angle could be found for Pendrick! He's a great character! While Murdoch ruining his life was getting old, Toronto is turning into a big city and there is a place for a visionary architect and inventor! Just don't let him sell the Mayor a monorail.
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Post by snacky on Apr 1, 2015 17:52:04 GMT
I used to feel the same way, especially when Emily's romantic life started being a carbon copy of Julia's. However, IMHO Emily was given a new lease on life this year. She actually got more definitive personality characteristics - especially in the thrillseeker area. I hope to see that played up to the max! While everyone else is hoping Emily will make the Lillian character "less rude", I'm kind of hoping that Lillian will make Emily more of a rabble-rouser - that will separate her more from Julia's "middle class" character. Also - getting rid of Emily now would be getting rid of the LGBT couple, just when MM is wandering into some interesting experimental territory there. Very well put. I'm really enjoying the Emily/Lillian romance and I hope they remain a couple. Glad to hear it! I need more swashbucklers on the pirate ship Lillian!
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Post by lovemondays on Apr 1, 2015 18:05:42 GMT
I just think that it's hard to just show a marraige being happy and have it be interesting for an audience...folks here mentioned the Joss Wheldon thing. William and Julia had their share of drama and it's kinda shifted to giving George or Emily the major love interest drama this season. It's not like Julia and Murdoch haven't had their share of issues...just not with each other. This is difficult for a show to handle when they finally marry the two top characters...they have to find more ways to make it interesting despite having given us the "happy ending" we all wanted. I mean...how much more you want to happen? Julia's been buried alive, got married, had that hubby murdered, was framed for the murder, had a noose around her neck, THEN she was threatened by fake Gilles, had to avoid Murdoch like the plague for a while and finally had to reveal it to him leading to them both having to lock themselves in a hotel for protection. Haven't those poor folks been through enough? :-) It seems like this was the writer's line of thinking - the William/Julia arc is done, time to move on to the next couple. However, this is not how viewers think. I try not to make huge generalizations about viewers, but I think it's pretty safe to say that viewers en masse get invested in the characters they watch over time. After 7 seasons of emotional investment, that interest doesn't suddenly drop after those characters get married. That would be equating marriage with character death. A marriage should only be a "happy ending" if the show itself is ending. Since the show is called Murdoch Mysteries, everyone expected the show to continue to focus on William Murdoch, even after he was married. Now I'm going to take off my "all viewers" hat and get into what probably would have made the shipper contingent happy. Since the marriage part of William's character, shippers expected to see occasional forensic/trace evidence of it - the token of affection, a kiss to indicate there was still a love life. I also believe female viewers across the board, not just shippers, and perhaps a lot of male ones as well, regarded Julia as a central ensemble character. They did not want to see her replaced by Emily. It's not a matter of putting Julia through more "romantic adventures" with William - it's a matter of finding ways that allow her to work with William to help solve the mysteries because there are a number of viewers who enjoy seeing a "Woman of Action" contributing to solving the mysteries in William's world. It's part of what gives MM's version of historic Toronto a special flavor. I think you've summed that up rather nicely, especially about trace evidence of the marriage. William and Julia became a ship BECAUSE they work so well together. It may me MURDOCH Mysteries but he has never solved all these cases by himself. It's a team effort with each member of the team contributing a valuable part of the dynamic.
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Post by randomkiwibirds on Apr 1, 2015 18:46:58 GMT
I don't know if anyone's interested but I found some slight spoilers/rumours for S9 here: xWhaa!! Where? the link just takes me to the last post in this thread!
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