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Post by snacky on Feb 25, 2015 4:49:19 GMT
Father Keegan probably had a lot to do with how William adjusted to his mother's death. Too bad he had nothing to say on the subject of butterflies...
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 25, 2015 12:09:07 GMT
I found several pertinent lines, delivered by Father Keegan in the past, that truly define William's morality, methods and decisions. William said that he "remember(s) every word you said to me" and "they are the words I recall whenever I have a difficult decision to make." The bedrock truths for William are: "The truth is the rock on which we must stand, no matter what the consequences." "Sometimes the greater good must take precedence, even over the law." "The pursuit of truth is absolute." "Do not trust in your heart alone." So William has carried these words as his mantra from childhood. They have defined him as a man and as a detective and they are absolute but it is obvious that they have been on parallel journeys to bend these absolutes because the human condition is one of fallibility. William is disappointed with this in Father Keegan just as anyone who grows up is able to see the imperfections of those they hold in great esteem. I assume that retro Father Keegan would be close to present day William's age. Interesting to see the parallel journey. I found one VERY interesting flashback. When young Will and and Father Keegan were trying to sort out who stabbed the sailor they entertained the possibility that it was the young woman who did it and Will said he didn't think so because "she didn't look like a murderer...she was too beautiful." Shades of William being taken in by the likes of Sally Pendrick and Eva Pierce. Whilst this ep didn't hold me as much as I would have liked I did enjoy the glimpse into what made William what he is. Though if you've read Shipwreck you knew that already. There was one thing that didn't quite ring true for me. William said that he wished Fr. Keegan had told him "Sometimes the greater good must take precedence, even over the law." However in the flashback Fr. Keegan did in fact say that when he took the money for the child. Seems William didn't pick up on that and has been holding "The pursuit of truth is absolute," and "The truth is the rock on which we must stand, no matter what the consequences," as absolutes even when it causes harm. I watched the ep three times last night and each time got a little more out of it. Anyone that doesn't watch it a second time is really missing out. Btw, I knew Fr. Labelle was a woman the first time I saw the chase scene. I realized on the second watching however that the moment I saw her, on the first watching, that she was a woman. However, it didn't quite coalesce into a fully formed thought until the chase scene, in fact I dismissed it the moment it crossed my mind. I originally thought they were going the sexual abuse route up until the chase scene. If that reads wrong I apologize, I'm having difficulty putting it into words. Must be having a senior moment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Fr. Keegan in the book decide to contact the merchant's family to see if they would claim any of the gold, valuables, etc? Then, to make sure the child is taken care of, places it with the woman who had just lost one?
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 25, 2015 12:12:55 GMT
but I don't know how else they could have fit it in within 42 minutes. I'm starting to wonder if losing those 6 minutes in the move to CBC is what's hurting some of the depth-they don't have the luxury of depth and detail those additional 6 minutes provided anymore, and is this hurting more than we think... . Also, I'm not sure we can call the priest transgender-she was a woman trying to do a man's job disguised as a man-I'm not sure that qualifies....insufficient evidence, I believe. Another nod to William being a married man-he's now aware of that time of the month, and is comfortable discussing it with other men. Also, this sets the stage for a pregnancy, which I'm convinced will be coming at the end of the season, or next. We've had some subtle allusions to Julia's fertility, and now we've had some inclination that William's biological clock is ticking. Like Snacky, I would have loved for this to be a recurring theme for this season-William ready for a family, and Julia wanting to devote more time to her career and her suffragist cause. This would have been some nice angst, and would have put a wedge between them, but as has been stated before, marriage= no romance, in MMland. And apparently, this child is going to be conceived via immaculate conception-because there's no passion in this marriage for it to happen the old fashioned way... I didn't know MM lost 6 minutes when it moved to CBC! I agree that any subtraction of time would be a hit in depth. IMHO - too soon for the baby, and I'm going to be irked if there's an immaculate conception in episode 18. If the tension between William and Julia over that issue wasn't exploited this year, they should bump it to next year. And Julia should be exploring medical options instead of relying on a "miracle birth" because that's an opportunity to go into the all the quack medicine and the genuine medical advances of the early 20th century. Given the premises of MM, taking a pass on that in favor of a "miracle" is just assinine. I don't disagree with you that it's too early, but the show seems to have been laying it on rather thick this season. I also agree that if they don't exploit tension/angst over William's desire for a family and Julia wanting to wait, it would be a massive opportunity lost. Also, it would be cool from a quack medicine standpoint.
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Post by lovemondays on Feb 25, 2015 16:06:31 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Fr. Keegan in the book decide to contact the merchant's family to see if they would claim any of the gold, valuables, etc? Then, to make sure the child is taken care of, places it with the woman who had just lost one? Father Keegan did give the baby to a Mrs. Pierce, a woman who had just lost a newborn, for temporary care. He knew that the courts would have to trace the merchant's family and let them have final say about the coins, diamonds and the baby. He did however take a couple of the gold coins and gave them to the baby as a "Christmas gift" to help the woman care for it until the family was located and made a decision.
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Post by snacky on Feb 25, 2015 17:01:55 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Fr. Keegan in the book decide to contact the merchant's family to see if they would claim any of the gold, valuables, etc? Then, to make sure the child is taken care of, places it with the woman who had just lost one? Father Keegan did give the baby to a Mrs. Pierce, a woman who had just lost a newborn, for temporary care. He knew that the courts would have to trace the merchant's family and let them have final say about the coins, diamonds and the baby. He did however take a couple of the gold coins and gave them to the baby as a "Christmas gift" to help the woman care for it until the family was located and made a decision. hmm, to me this means he lied to a dying woman. He promises to use the money to care for the baby - not to check with the courts to see who has legal claims on it. I wonder if young Will raised questions about that...
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Post by snacky on Feb 25, 2015 21:41:53 GMT
During the last scene, I wonder if Julia was in the church, checking out William in altar boy mode.
One thing that wasn't satisfying about Julia's negotiations with the priest before marriage was we never got to see what aspects of Catholicism she came to terms with. Since she would be studying the symbols of the unconscious, I would especially be interested in knowing how she assessed those stained glass windows and other "dark places" imagery. And of course anything to do with archetypes of women. Of course, if Julia knows too much, William might get annoyed at bding "handled"./
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Post by Hodge on Feb 25, 2015 23:18:39 GMT
During the last scene, I wonder if Julia was in the church, checking out William in altar boy mode. One thing that wasn't satisfying about Julia's negotiations with the priest before marriage was we never got to see what aspects of Catholicism she came to terms with. Since she would be studying the symbols of the unconscious, I would especially be interested in knowing how she assessed those stained glass windows and other "dark places" imagery. And of course anything to do with archetypes of women. Of course, if Julia knows too much, William might get annoyed at bding "handled"./ From what I saw she didn't think much of those 'dark places' windows. I have to admit I thought they were rather grim.
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Post by carco on Feb 27, 2015 0:20:52 GMT
Um, I think we're going off on a tangent....again. This is a moot point now that the episode aired, but how would speculating on the issue with Father Keegan be a "tangent"? Tangent was probably not the correct word. I was enjoying all the speculation about this episode before it aired and enjoyed how quickly we got to the possibility of maybe Father Keegan being William's father. Ever since then, all I've been hearing in my head is the song about "..... the sweet talking son of a preacher man...."!! It's an earworm...can't get it out of my head!!!!
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Post by snacky on Feb 27, 2015 1:09:36 GMT
Ever since then, all I've been hearing in my head is the song about "..... the sweet talking son of a preacher man...."!! ROFLMAO! Well I was about to promise to be less of a downer in my speculations. Then I realized lovemondays's "psychic" plot about txic fashion has not come up yet. Could the last "killer" ep put ALL the MM women in danger?
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Post by snacky on Feb 27, 2015 1:17:20 GMT
Ever since then, all I've been hearing in my head is the song about "..... the sweet talking son of a preacher man...."!! Though the ep didn't actually exclude this. Father Keegan treated William like a son. William idolized Father Keegan like the father he wanted. If it weren't for Jasper...
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Post by snacky on Feb 27, 2015 1:21:21 GMT
Could be a case of Father Keegan not knowing if William was his - or just assuing he was because William was bright.
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Post by carco on Feb 27, 2015 5:09:54 GMT
- or just assuing he was because William was bright. So what you're saying is Father Keegan has a huge ego and a wandering eye? Oh my! William's mother and the priest? Sounds like Thornbirds to me but that's ok 'cause I loved Thornbirds.....so carry on! But as for William, I don't think he would be happy with that knowledge.
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Post by carco on Feb 27, 2015 5:29:14 GMT
Ever since then, all I've been hearing in my head is the song about "..... the sweet talking son of a preacher man...."!! ROFLMAO! Well I was about to promise to be less of a downer in my speculations. Then I realized lovemondays's "psychic" plot about txic fashion has not come up yet. Could the last "killer" ep put ALL the MM women in danger? Oh, I guess you're right. I figured The Devil Wears Whalebone was "that" episode (killer fashion) but I guess there might be another one about toxic fashion still to come. Perhaps, Lillian will soon be wearing a lovely green number infused with generous amounts of ... what was it? Arsenic?
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Post by snacky on Feb 27, 2015 7:36:13 GMT
- or just assuing he was because William was bright. So what you're saying is Father Keegan has a huge ego and a wandering eye? Oh my! William's mother and the priest? Sounds like Thornbirds to me but that's ok 'cause I loved Thornbirds.....so carry on! But as for William, I don't think he would be happy with that knowledge. Yeah I have an evil eye for angst don't eye...? As a young boy I think William would have kind of wanted it, but as an adult with a more in-depth knowledge of Catholic teachings and the birds and the bees, I think William would be a bit more conflicted about it. He did somehow look a LOT like a son when he was serving as altar boy in the last scene, though... Was it just me, or did the last scene seem cut off too soon?
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Post by snacky on Feb 27, 2015 7:38:12 GMT
ROFLMAO! Well I was about to promise to be less of a downer in my speculations. Then I realized lovemondays's "psychic" plot about txic fashion has not come up yet. Could the last "killer" ep put ALL the MM women in danger? Oh, I guess you're right. I figured The Devil Wears Whalebone was "that" episode (killer fashion) but I guess there might be another one about toxic fashion still to come. Perhaps, Lillian will soon be wearing a lovely green number infused with generous amounts of ... what was it? Arsenic? You guys can all root against Lillian if you want, but I will be clapping for her and going: "I do believe in fairies...I do, I do, I do..." ( Wait, was that politically incorrect?)
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