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Post by akarana on Apr 14, 2011 21:58:22 GMT
Yeah that could be an explanation.
However I think that the solution doesn't lie inside the story but outside. Looking at the timeline I think it's really simple: When they wrote the abortion storyline in s2 they didn't know yet if there would be season 3. Then in season 3 they extended the abortion storyline and added the sterile part. That's why the condoms wouldn't fit with the pregnancy scare.
Sure, it can be explained (you did!), I just doubt that they knew already about Julia being sterile by the time they wrote the precaution line
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Post by camilla on Apr 14, 2011 22:19:04 GMT
Yeah that could be an explanation. However I think that the solution doesn't lie inside the story but outside. Looking at the timeline I think it's really simple: When they wrote the abortion storyline in s2 they didn't know yet if there would be season 3. Then in season 3 they extended the abortion storyline and added the sterile part. That's why the condoms wouldn't fit with the pregnancy scare. Sure, it can be explained (you did!), I just doubt that they knew already about Julia being sterile by the time they wrote the precaution line Great point Akarana,I agree! However i think Julia doesn't know to' be' sterile when she talk about precaution |
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Post by lifeisridic on Apr 14, 2011 22:25:39 GMT
I could see her asking for precautions purely because of STD's. She is a doctor so knows about them. And she is a modern woman so like how William and George are ahead of their times, Julia being so with condoms fits the show.
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Post by hannikan on Apr 15, 2011 3:54:46 GMT
Well, they leave things ambiguous so they can make more definite statements later if there are later seasons. But Julia would have to have known that it was possible that she could no longer carry a baby full term after her abortion. Dr. Tasch would have told her that when she first saw him. It's a risk with an abortion, esp back then. But to know for sure would need further examination and examination after she had healed fully. And condoms have been around in some form for centuries but like I said people did not use them except with prostitutes until just a few decades ago. It would have been a little strange to William for Julia to have requested using them, even if he knew a little about STDs. Like I said they were just beginning to understand how they're transmitted.
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Post by akarana on Apr 15, 2011 7:03:46 GMT
It wasn't mentioned though what injuries she suffered exactly during the abortion, or? She would know 100% if she had a hystorectomy (was that even possible already back then?!). There could be scar tissue, that's clear. But for her to be so convinced that she can't have kids that she risks her future with Murdoch for it, it must be something severe.
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Post by hannikan on Apr 15, 2011 19:18:36 GMT
What I'm saying is that immediately after she had the abortion she probably knew it was possible that she could never have children again due to the abortion (either not get pregnant or not be able to keep from miscarrying). But when she started to think that she might want to have children in the future, she had herself checked again to find out more certainly. Multiple dilations and curettages (the cleaning out of the uterus) can cause some scarring at the top of the cervix or inside the uterus. Any procedure that dilates the cervix (a necessary step during most abortions) can weaken it. This causes problems with ovulation. If Julia could not ovulate that would be a sign that she could not get pregnant. Dr. Tasch had been continuing to monitor her and had to have been checking for this. He must have declared her sterile. Julia might have been suspicious that she wasn't ovulating and wanted confirmation. Now I think she held onto this information for all of S3 and possibly even part of season 2 (after Shades of Grey when she visited Dr. Tasch again) because she thought she would lose William over not being able to have children. But I don't think she knew for sure yet that she could not have children in the Green Muse and she was probably thinking of both the small possibility of pregnancy and the small possibility of an STD.
It was left ambiguous in the Green Muse whether William had been with a prostitute when he originally knew Ettie in Montreal. She helped him with a case in Montreal but they also seemed as though they had been intimate. She was not a prostitute but a madam in Toronto but William said she had really moved up since he'd seen her in Montreal. Julia had been suspicious of how William knew her and might have been thinking of that, as well, when she asked about protection. At the end of the episode, Ettie said "come and visit me in Winnipeg, William. Well, I guess that's not likely anymore now, is it?" William said "No, it isn't." We were to understand that he would not visit her because of his starting a relationship with Julia.
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Post by lifeisridic on Apr 15, 2011 23:12:44 GMT
Actually in the Murdoch movies Williams other love interest was Ettie the prostitute. And it is possible they slept together as they did kiss and there was an attraction. Julia actually knew he had her as a love interest as the were in the movies together.
Though I don't believe they actually slept together as he turned her down in the last movie. So to then sleep with her afterwards would seem strange. The fact Ettie was a former love interest explains what she says to William in Green Muse as she had been in love with him and they had kissed. William couldn't have a relationship with her because he had already started to like Julia and he couldn't get past Ettie being a prostitute, it went against his religious beliefs.
I recommend everyone to watch the three movies. It's gives all the back story.
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Post by akarana on Apr 16, 2011 7:31:49 GMT
I would love to watch hem. Are they available on DVD? And hannikan: I get what you are saying about her finding our later for sure that she can't have kids and not knowing immediately after the abortion. I just figured that in her case it wasn't a "normal" risk that left her sterile, but the way she described what happened to her and that Tasch saved her later I thought that maybe she was hurt during the procedure in a way that isn't within the normal "risk range". That maybe the one who performed it sliced her ovaries, hurt her cervix... something like this. A really bad case of malpractice. I haven't done any research yet how exactly the abortion procedure looked back then. However if she wasn't ovulating I think it mainly depends on if she would get her period or not if they wold have been able to diagnose it back then. Without ultrasound the ovulation alone would be pretty impossible to diagnose. And if she didn't get it, I think for her as a doctor it would be clear without Taschs consultation that she can't have kids. That's what I'm wondering about, the more medical part of it  |
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Post by hannikan on Apr 16, 2011 19:19:12 GMT
Well, Tasch was still her doctor in S2 I thought. Certainly her doctor for her feminine issues but I don't think they had specialists for things then. You went to one doctor (and they did your dental work, too). And she was continuing to go to him, so monitoring her menstruation/ovulation, etc was probably part of what he was examining her for. I don't know if they could tell if a woman ovulated aside from just whether she had her period or not then. The abortion was pretty brutal so I think you're right that something very severe happened (like slicing her ovaries, etc). The risk then would have been very high in most cases though because abortions were not practiced with any kind of regulation or oversight. Someone like a Dr. Tasch would have been the exception in being very careful and capable.
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Post by lifeisridic on Apr 16, 2011 22:28:19 GMT
Yes they are. I think they are also available on some torrent sites.
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Post by snacky on Jul 8, 2014 20:16:46 GMT
I rewatched this episode and, not to put the shipper agenda before everything else that was great about it, I loved how William was hit (by a baseball bat) yet again by the fact that he'd lost the love of his life. Everyone just keeps rubbing that in during season 4. William's expressions are priceless: this is where he turns out to be a really great actor. So many emotions run across his face. Anyway, I did rewatch this episode with shipper glasses on this time, and I agree with the previous (3 year old!!!) conversation that Julia was fishing for information about William's relationship with Anna. I also think William really wanted to explore his feelings for Anna: he was so happy to see her, and so disappointed she was engaged. He was feeling as much loss as Anna as they parted (in theory forever) at the end. I also agree that something something shifted in Julia when Anna told her that William chose her in Bristol. Maybe through the dance of Victorian propriety she was having trouble interpreting the scope of William's feelings? In other posts I've speculated he didn't express himself in the letters to Buffalo because he was waiting for Julia to make the first move. William always waits for women to make the first move: Julia should know that. One kind of heartwarming thing from this whole ordeal is I think both William and Julia learned they need to communicate what they feel some how. Interestingly, I think William actually got their first. By Season 6, he's definitively saying "I love you", and he will say it in public, directly. Julia is still nervous about it. In Season 4, William is still trying to pathetically communicate his feelings with his eyes (see Dead End Street), roflmao!  |
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Post by snacky on Nov 22, 2014 4:05:57 GMT
On rewatching this episode - Anna got two chances to tell Julia where William's heart was really at. Both times Julia looked very uncomfortable at the notion. She finally has to face that perhaps she might have been jumping the gun.  I noticed that Julia almost has a mean look on her face in the initial scene where Anna is viewing the bodies. I wonder when William told her who Anna was? I remember his original plan was "what happened in England, stays in England." So did Julia only find out an hour ago that actually William was rescued by a woman and, perhaps, that he cared about her a great deal?  Anna very directly invites William to "come to her" at the end. If William was a virgin, that invitation must have been mighty hard to refuse! Did I see William break out into some perspiration there? |
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Post by ziggy on Dec 5, 2014 19:15:20 GMT
This is one of my favorites. It was so neatly written, very compact yet rich in information. I wish Cal Coons will write a few more episodes for the show. It’s been a while. The guy is full of talent.
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Post by lea on Jul 30, 2015 3:11:42 GMT
Another ep a day!
1. Aw Julia is pining after William.
2. William was definitely disappointed to hear Anna was engaged.
3. I found it interesting that Julia wanted Anna to stay at her house. I felt like it wasn't entirely genuine. Was she trying to keep her away from William?
4. William isn't afraid to taste things he finds. I laugh every time.
5. Anna really came along at an opportune time. It's unfortunate she had to leave with William thinking he'd not see her again.
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Post by snacky on Jul 30, 2015 6:13:40 GMT
2. William was definitely disappointed to hear Anna was engaged. 3. I found it interesting that Julia wanted Anna to stay at her house. I felt like it wasn't entirely genuine. Was she trying to keep her away from William? William's disappointment was very interesting: he had very strong feelings for Anna after what amounted to a weekend adventure! It's also interesting that Anna has turned into a librarian type. I think Julia wanted to find out more about what went on in England. But the sad thing here is Anna really forces her to confront that William did love her: she can't maintain the pretense that William should have found someone to start a family with while she was in Buffalo anymore. |
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