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Post by lea on Sept 14, 2015 14:15:12 GMT
Ohhh there was excellent discussion in this thread. It was one I actually hadn't read yet.
This episode was written to have too many things go wrong with too many people all at once. I don't hate this episode, I quite liked it the first time I watched it, but now so much of it seems so unnecessary.
1. Julia really needed to ride the same train? You would have thought she could have went earlier. Also, it was surprising that she was fine drinking alcohol from a stranger and that William thought nothing of it. He seemed just fine with it, not even a disapproving glance.
2. The Inspector really should have just left the bag on his head and sat across from him with his gun pointed at him the entire time. Everyone else could have walked the aisles of the train.
3. I do want to mention that Michael Seater has done an absolutely fantastic job playing Gillies. I just wish they had written Gillies just a bit better. It's the same thing over and over. This elaborate plan on the train feels like all his other ones just repackaged.
4. The kiss is certainly interesting. You could entertain that Gillies has feelings for William and it was past trying to shock him to get away, but I wonder if he is even capable of actually forming feelings of the sort.
5. I am also one of the people that want to see Gillies back because of this whole story being soooo anti-climatic. Obviously this was meant to be left open ended in case they wanted to bring him back, which is just annoying to me. Either kill him or don't. Not to mention they over used his character to drag out the relationship to an annoying length. They really couldn't have brought back any of the other villains or had any other type of angst? Honestly.
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2015 14:36:07 GMT
Ohhh there was excellent discussion in this thread. It was one I actually hadn't read yet. This episode was written to have too many things go wrong with too many people all at once. I don't hate this episode, I quite liked it the first time I watched it, but now so much of it seems so unnecessary. 1. Julia really needed to ride the same train? You would have thought she could have went earlier. Also, it was surprising that she was fine drinking alcohol from a stranger and that William thought nothing of it. He seemed just fine with it, not even a disapproving glance. 2. The Inspector really should have just left the bag on his head and sat across from him with his gun pointed at him the entire time. Everyone else could have walked the aisles of the train. 3. I do want to mention that Michael Seater has done an absolutely fantastic job playing Gillies. I just wish they had written Gillies just a bit better. It's the same thing over and over. This elaborate plan on the train feels like all his other ones just repackaged. 4. The kiss is certainly interesting. You could entertain that Gillies has feelings for William and it was past trying to shock him to get away, but I wonder if he is even capable of actually forming feelings of the sort. 5. I am also one of the people that want to see Gillies back because of this whole story being soooo anti-climatic. Obviously this was meant to be left open ended in case they wanted to bring him back, which is just annoying to me. Either kill him or don't. Not to mention they over used his character to drag out the relationship to an annoying length. They really couldn't have brought back any of the other villains or had any other type of angst? Honestly. This was not one of the better episodes, Gillies had been way overused by this point and the fact he had an anticlimactic end was perfect for me. Let it go and move on. Despite the overuse Michael Seater did a great job with the character, he played him with just the right amount of ambiguity that the kiss could be taken either way. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2015 17:10:16 GMT
5. I am also one of the people that want to see Gillies back because of this whole story being soooo anti-climatic. Obviously this was meant to be left open ended in case they wanted to bring him back, which is just annoying to me. Either kill him or don't. Not to mention they over used his character to drag out the relationship to an annoying length. They really couldn't have brought back any of the other villains or had any other type of angst? Honestly. Gillies had been way overused by this point and the fact he had an anticlimactic end was perfect for me. Let it go and move on. Despite the overuse Michael Seater did a great job with the character, he played him with just the right amount of ambiguity that the kiss could be taken either way. I don't think that perception of "over use" would have been there if Gillies hadn't been such an annoying villain in the first place. IMHO, it's a good arch-nemesis provides the series with underlying continuity/structure. If handled well, the audience will bring all the past "baggage" to an episode with the arch-nemesis in it, and that episode while have a much more powerful emotional punch. If Gillies does come back, I hope its for a sort of "do over" - Gillies with a lot more menace and perhaps someone that William is unable to catch (thus no more prison breaks). |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2015 17:16:45 GMT
1. Julia really needed to ride the same train? You would have thought she could have went earlier. Also, it was surprising that she was fine drinking alcohol from a stranger and that William thought nothing of it. He seemed just fine with it, not even a disapproving glance. Having been knocked out by tea before, you would think Julia would be careful about drinks from strangers. William has drawn a rational conclusion over time that it's counterproductive to disapprove of Julia: she values her independence and William realized that a relationship with Julia means acknowledging/supporting that. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2015 17:32:05 GMT
1. Julia really needed to ride the same train? You would have thought she could have went earlier. Also, it was surprising that she was fine drinking alcohol from a stranger and that William thought nothing of it. He seemed just fine with it, not even a disapproving glance. Having been knocked out by tea before, you would think Julia would be careful about drinks from strangers. William has drawn a rational conclusion over time that it's counterproductive to disapprove of Julia: she values her independence and William realized that a relationship with Julia means acknowledging/supporting that. She was 'knocked out' by tea in S8 but not before MTtK so no learning experience there. I was surprised she took a swig though. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2015 17:32:29 GMT
Gillies had been way overused by this point and the fact he had an anticlimactic end was perfect for me. Let it go and move on. Despite the overuse Michael Seater did a great job with the character, he played him with just the right amount of ambiguity that the kiss could be taken either way. I don't think that perception of "over use" would have been there if Gillies hadn't been such an annoying villain in the first place. IMHO, it's a good arch-nemesis provides the series with underlying continuity/structure. If handled well, the audience will bring all the past "baggage" to an episode with the arch-nemesis in it, and that episode while have a much more powerful emotional punch. If Gillies does come back, I hope its for a sort of "do over" - Gillies with a lot more menace and perhaps someone that William is unable to catch (thus no more prison breaks). Perhaps it's the annoying quality that makes it feel that way. Still don't want him back! |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2015 19:01:02 GMT
Having been knocked out by tea before, you would think Julia would be careful about drinks from strangers. William has drawn a rational conclusion over time that it's counterproductive to disapprove of Julia: she values her independence and William realized that a relationship with Julia means acknowledging/supporting that. She was 'knocked out' by tea in S8 but not before MTtK so no learning experience there. I was surprised she took a swig though. She was also knocked out by tea when Gillies was framing her: it was sad when she fell for it again at the asylum in S8! |
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Post by snacky on Sept 14, 2015 19:04:02 GMT
If Gillies does come back, I hope its for a sort of "do over" - Gillies with a lot more menace and perhaps someone that William is unable to catch (thus no more prison breaks). Perhaps it's the annoying quality that makes it feel that way. Still don't want him back! It looks like Eva Pearce was gearing up to be the next arch-nemesis. I'm not sure she will go over much better, though, since her best weapon is creating distrust between William and Julia - and no one is going to buy William as even considering being unfaithful. |
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Post by lea on Sept 14, 2015 20:48:00 GMT
Perhaps it's the annoying quality that makes it feel that way. Still don't want him back! It looks like Eva Pearce was gearing up to be the next arch-nemesis. I'm not sure she will go over much better, though, since her best weapon is creating distrust between William and Julia - and no one is going to buy William as even considering being unfaithful. Especially if she gets caught and escapes over and over. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 14, 2015 21:43:07 GMT
She was 'knocked out' by tea in S8 but not before MTtK so no learning experience there. I was surprised she took a swig though. She was also knocked out by tea when Gillies was framing her: it was sad when she fell for it again at the asylum in S8! We don't know how he drugged her when he framed her, you're assuming it was tea, it may not have been. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 15, 2015 17:11:39 GMT
She was also knocked out by tea when Gillies was framing her: it was sad when she fell for it again at the asylum in S8! We don't know how he drugged her when he framed her, you're assuming it was tea, it may not have been. I could have sworn tea was mentioned. Maybe it was in that secret bottle of liquor she keeps hidden in her office... |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 15, 2015 18:51:45 GMT
We don't know how he drugged her when he framed her, you're assuming it was tea, it may not have been. I could have sworn tea was mentioned. Maybe it was in that secret bottle of liquor she keeps hidden in her office... Nope, I just looked it up: "...I suffered a memory lapse. One moment I was sitting at my desk and the next moment I woke up on my couch. I thought I'd been working too hard." This is the only mention of the incident. |
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Post by sjohisaryu on Oct 15, 2019 20:34:04 GMT
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Post by ecbazopiwa on Oct 16, 2019 2:29:30 GMT
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