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Post by snacky on May 15, 2014 2:07:53 GMT
Murdoch Mysteries really needs more fan fiction - I wonder why there is so little of it?
I'm the actors have all been breathing a sigh of relief, having been spared the thought of themselves featuring in a great deal of risque material.
However, I realized fanfic does something really important for TV shows with shipper arcs: it allows viewers to vent their fantasies without pressing too hard to write the show itself. Without that vent, there's a big temptation for shippers to think "I could write it better". However, when something fan fiction-ish is written into a show it usually comes off as trite and outright unnecessary to say. (One major example in MM - Julia's declaration that she want's "to be held" in Snakes and Ladders). Television is a visual medium, and emotions are best expressed by actions or situations rather than by direct exposition.
The "I want to be held" line sounds good in the head of a fan fiction writer because they need that exposition in order to create the image in their heads. Converting a fan fiction fantasy to a TV script is not so simple. For TV, sometimes the less said, the better.
I wonder if the pressure to marry off William and Julia would have been so great if there had been more alternative resources for "consummation"? As long as fans could trust that their favorite couple would get to the finish line eventually, what's the hurry?
Where are the libraries of fanfic anyway? Is it just the age of the demographic? Was creating fanfic archives a thing of the previous decade? Is it because of intensified policing of some sort? Is it all on Facebook now? It's been a while since I've peeked into fandoms, so I really don't know.
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Post by wildhorseannie on May 20, 2014 5:11:13 GMT
I also thought that the "I want to be held" line was kind of corny. And I've wondered about the lack of MM fanfiction...really the lack of MM fan-anything! I'm not typically a huge fanfiction consumer, since my natural tendency to obsess would just take over, lol. But I do like browsing short fanfics, creative fanart, and nice quote collections. I think you and I briefly discussed this elsewhere, snacky, but the fan creations and "inside jokes" are part of what brings a fandom together, and there seems to be a distinct lack of this in the MM world. :/
I really shouldn't complain too much though, since I haven't done much to contribute besides my screencap collection. I'm constantly coming up with stories in my head, but so far none of them have matured to the written down stage yet. And my lack of artsy-ness and technical experience pretty much leaves any art form out, lol.
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Post by snacky on May 20, 2014 5:30:24 GMT
I also thought that the "I want to be held" line was kind of corny. And I've wondered about the lack of MM fanfiction...really the lack of MM fan-anything! I'm not typically a huge fanfiction consumer, since my natural tendency to obsess would just take over, lol. But I do like browsing short fanfics, creative fanart, and nice quote collections. I think you and I briefly discussed this elsewhere, snacky, but the fan creations and "inside jokes" are part of what brings a fandom together, and there seems to be a distinct lack of this in the MM world. :/ I really shouldn't complain too much though, since I haven't done much to contribute besides my screencap collection. I'm constantly coming up with stories in my head, but so far none of them have matured to the written down stage yet. And my lack of artsy-ness and technical experience pretty much leaves any art form out, lol. I'm in trouble now. Since I complained, I'm going to have to set aside some time to read a bit of it on fanfiction.net. I'm sort of past the age, but I do feel writers should be encouraged. It's exactly as you say - I'm mystified as to why MM - which seems to have a lot of cult TV features - does not have a a freaking avalanche of fan artifacts. The period setting alone provides a lot of creative stimulus. It might be just a sign of the aging of the Internet and fandoms in general? There was tons of fanfic back when fanfic was new, and writers were beating off fans with a stick. Now it's all been done and recycled through a number of shows. In my own case, personal aging factors in. When I was a teenager, I'd just zip off some fic. Now I write a scene of this and a snatch of that conversation, and am far too lazy to revise it or impose a plot. XD On the flip side, I have all the more admiration for the people who do carry through the editing process and produce something of quality (fic or video). |
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Post by wildhorseannie on May 21, 2014 0:25:41 GMT
I think that's one of my main problems...even though I'm still young, I'm a meticulous writer, so I can't just zip something off on the internet and leave it there (except maybe posts like this, lol). I wrote a great Sue Thomas F.B.Eye fic once, but it took me forever and I'm still not even sure that I'm satisfied with the quality. As for Murdoch, I still haven't quite found a plot in my head that screams to be written.
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Post by snacky on May 21, 2014 1:37:20 GMT
I think that's one of my main problems...even though I'm still young, I'm a meticulous writer, so I can't just zip something off on the internet and leave it there (except maybe posts like this, lol). I wrote a great Sue Thomas F.B.Eye fic once, but it took me forever and I'm still not even sure that I'm satisfied with the quality. As for Murdoch, I still haven't quite found a plot in my head that screams to be written. Wa, I wrote a draft of a Sue Thomas one. Waaaaaaaay too long and never to be finished. While it was in my head I had to get it down on paper. But once I got it out of my system, no follow up energy left for editing. XD |
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Post by wildhorseannie on May 21, 2014 3:46:16 GMT
Haha, mine was super long too! Probably too long to ever properly edit, thus my dissatisfaction with it. Also, on an unrelated note, this is my 100th post! Woohoo!  |
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Post by snacky on May 21, 2014 3:56:27 GMT
Haha, mine was super long too! Probably too long to ever properly edit, thus my dissatisfaction with it. Also, on an unrelated note, this is my 100th post! Woohoo! I have a clear headstart to Goddess status. Try the Games section for a boost. |
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Post by wildhorseannie on May 21, 2014 4:04:45 GMT
I'll definitely be able to start posting more once I'm caught up on the seasons!  |
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Post by snacky on May 21, 2014 5:44:18 GMT
I'll definitely be able to start posting more once I'm caught up on the seasons! I've created a monster! |
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Post by carco on May 21, 2014 22:26:00 GMT
The "I want to be held" line sounds good in the head of a fan fiction writer because they need that exposition in order to create the image in their heads. Converting a fan fiction fantasy to a TV script is not so simple. For TV, sometimes the less said, the better. I wonder if the pressure to marry off William and Julia would have been so great if there had been more alternative resources for "consummation"? As long as fans could trust that their favorite couple would get to the finish line eventually, what's the hurry? I, myself, disagree with your comments regarding the quote of "I want to be held." The quote is incomplete as stated and needs to be considered in context of the events of the day. Julia was attacked by a man she had met but who she did not know to be the killer and killed him to save herself. Had she ever killed anyone before? So William took her home but she turned up for the dance lesson later that evening. When he remarked on her surprising presence given what she had just been through, she told him (I'm paraphrasing) '... tonight of all nights I realized I wanted to be held.' I don't see that as trite coming from Julia who, at that point rarely, if ever, let anyone see past her walls of defense. It's stilted Victorian-speak dialogue yes, but so is much of the dialogue in that show, particularly in those older episodes. Julia was a very proud and independent woman and did not want to "need" anyone. So for her to tell William in those early days of their relationship that she didn't want to be alone that evening and needed him to hold her, I think that was a pivotal moment. By exposing to him, what she perceived to be a crack in her armour, she was telling him she trusted him. Helene is one of the best actresses I've seen in conveying unspoken thoughts and emotions but I don't think she could have gotten all that across while dancing, without that simple sentence. For Victorian Julia it was the equivalent of a 2014 counterpart, put in the same situation, asking relatively new boyfriend William to stay the night with her and hold her because she was totally freaked out and afraid to be alone. I enjoy fan fic but I don't think it's capable of calming fan's clamouring for resolution to an artificially extended arc. In fact it might make it worse because people see the couple getting together in the fanfic so they can become even more annoyed with the wait, concluding the writer's are just playing with their heads (and of course, they ARE!!  ). I watched 'JAG' for 10 yrs and there was tons of fanfic at the time but it didn't stop fans from being frustrated. But thank heavens for the fanfic because the last episode was just a total FAIL. Funny think about JAG and Murdoch Mysteries though, they have/had a similar set of 5 characters with similar roles and personalities: Harm = William, Mac = Julia, Adm. Chegwidden = Insp. Brackenreid, Bud = George and Harriet = Emily. It must be formula proven to work for shows about investigative teams and their workplaces. (Even the actor who played Harm hails from just outside of Toronto.) |
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Post by snacky on May 22, 2014 1:01:29 GMT
I, myself, disagree with your comments regarding the quote of "I want to be held." The quote is incomplete as stated and needs to be considered in context of the events of the day. Julia was attacked by a man she had met but who she did not know to be the killer and killed him to save herself. Had she ever killed anyone before? So William took her home but she turned up for the dance lesson later that evening. When he remarked on her surprising presence given what she had just been through, she told him (I'm paraphrasing) '... tonight of all nights I realized I wanted to be held.' I don't see that as trite coming from Julia who, at that point rarely, if ever, let anyone see past her walls of defense. It's stilted Victorian-speak dialogue yes, but so is much of the dialogue in that show, particularly in those older episodes. Julia was a very proud and independent woman and did not want to "need" anyone. So for her to tell William in those early days of their relationship that she didn't want to be alone that evening and needed him to hold her, I think that was a pivotal moment. By exposing to him, what she perceived to be a crack in her armour, she was telling him she trusted him. Helene is one of the best actresses I've seen in conveying unspoken thoughts and emotions but I don't think she could have gotten all that across while dancing, without that simple sentence. For Victorian Julia it was the equivalent of a 2014 counterpart, put in the same situation, asking relatively new boyfriend William to stay the night with her and hold her because she was totally freaked out and afraid to be alone. I enjoy fan fic but I don't think it's capable of calming fan's clamouring for resolution to an artificially extended arc. In fact it might make it worse because people see the couple getting together in the fanfic so they can become even more annoyed with the wait, concluding the writer's are just playing with their heads (and of course, they ARE!! ). I watched 'JAG' for 10 yrs and there was tons of fanfic at the time but it didn't stop fans from being frustrated. But thank heavens for the fanfic because the last episode was just a total FAIL. Funny think about JAG and Murdoch Mysteries though, they have/had a similar set of 5 characters with similar roles and personalities: Harm = William, Mac = Julia, Adm. Chegwidden = Insp. Brackenreid, Bud = George and Harriet = Emily. It must be formula proven to work for shows about investigative teams and their workplaces. (Even the actor who played Harm hails from just outside of Toronto.) The same line can certainly sound different to different ears. I love your interpretation of it - I just wish the writers had come up with a a different line. I certainly love the whole dancing episode (see my sig!). Perhaps that particular line sounds fan ficcy only to me. lol regarding your fan analysis. I've never seen Jag, but the character formulas are pretty well worn in general. What happened in the final episode that failed so totally? |
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Post by carco on May 22, 2014 20:34:46 GMT
The same line can certainly sound different to different ears. I love your interpretation of it - I just wish the writers had come up with a a different line. I certainly love the whole dancing episode (see my sig!). Perhaps that particular line sounds fan ficcy only to me. lol regarding your fan analysis. I've never seen Jag, but the character formulas are pretty well worn in general. What happened in the final episode that failed so totally? It really is kind of funny how people watch the same show and hear the same lines and see a different episode. That's why I hate to get into debates over things on line because there is no right or wrong, but I certainly don't mind friendly discussions . I don't think you're alone in your viewpoint, I'm sure others agree. When I watch the show I tend to keep the backdrop of the time period and who these people are in society, in mind. When the camera pulls away, you notice that everyone else is dancing at arm's length except Julia and William who are cheek to cheek. She wasn't there for her 'dance lesson'. Oh, JAG was like a Top Gun meets A Few Good Men and started on one channel but changed networks for S2 and then went on to S10 during which time they started the storyline that became NCIS. They also changed the actress and character of the female lawyer for S2 to Mac (a "tough as nails Marine Colonel") (=Julia) and the premise for the next 9 seasons was that Harm and Mac had to keep their obvious feelings for one another at bay because of military regulations but they worked side by side and had each other's back. So for 8 seasons they "danced". Finally S10 rolls around and it is announced that it will be the last season and in a "Oh gosh, this is so sudden..." move, production had to "unexpectedly" end arcs and tie up loose ends. I don't recall all the details but bottom-line everyone was being re-assigned to different JAG offices and all in a couple of days. I believe Harm (Harmon Rabb) was being stationed in London, England and Mac (Sarah MacKenzie) was being sent to California. So in the last few minutes of the last episode, Mac finished packing & went to Harm's apartment where he is all packed and they are sitting on bar stools about 6 feet apart and eventually Harm says something like "why don't we get married?" and they lean towards each other to kiss, still sitting on the stupid stools!! I'm pretty sure that was their first wide-awake-not-a-dream kiss in 9 years. Then Mac goes home to change and they join the group for goodbye drinks and there they announce they are going to get married. End. At least that's all I remember of the ending as I have never watched an episode of the show since. I heard last week or so that people were talking to ex-cast about a reunion movie and there was little to no interest. I agree - you can't kill something twice, why try? |
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Post by snacky on May 22, 2014 23:32:30 GMT
It really is kind of funny how people watch the same show and hear the same lines and see a different episode. That's why I hate to get into debates over things on line because there is no right or wrong, but I certainly don't mind friendly discussions . I don't think you're alone in your viewpoint, I'm sure others agree. When I watch the show I tend to keep the backdrop of the time period and who these people are in society, in mind. When the camera pulls away, you notice that everyone else is dancing at arm's length except Julia and William who are cheek to cheek. She wasn't there for her 'dance lesson'. eventually Harm says something like "why don't we get married?" and they lean towards each other to kiss, still sitting on the stupid stools!! I'm pretty sure that was their first wide-awake-not-a-dream kiss in 9 years. Then Mac goes home to change and they join the group for goodbye drinks and there they announce they are going to get married. I agree with your philosophy of subjective viewing, and it's totally not worth debating over it. I also love how you attempt to put the acting techniques in historical context. I try to do the same, though the results aren't always the same. For me, I think the result is a little more forgiveness of what's actually some awkward acting on Yannick Bisson's part - I just write it off as a William having a Victorian moment! XD I sooooooo agree with you about Julia not being there just for the dance lesson. Even before the tragedy, I'm sure it was a pseudo-date and a pretext for hand-holding for both of them. That's why I love that episode. The scene where William "misses" his dance grip is one of the best (shippy) scenes in the whole series for me, and it also shows Yannick really can act. (Sometimes when someone is playing a low key character it's hard to tell if the actor is underplaying or just not acting). I have to agree that the conclusion of Jag is about the worse end to a ship arc I've ever heard of. While I didn't think MM needed to rush the marriage, I'm glad they aren't going to let it come to something as lame as that. |
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Post by wildhorseannie on May 23, 2014 1:33:45 GMT
My two cents on the "need to be held line" is that I think it worked for the time period (as you pointed out, carco), but I think those of us in the 21st century have heard it so many times that it comes off a little "fanfic-sih" (as snacky pointed out). So I guess I agree with both of you! (Unfortunately haven't seen JAG, so no two cents about that) |
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Post by snacky on May 23, 2014 1:44:48 GMT
My two cents on the "need to be held line" is that I think it worked for the time period (as you pointed out, carco), but I think those of us in the 21st century have heard it so many times that it comes off a little "fanfic-sih" (as snacky pointed out). So I guess I agree with both of you! (Unfortunately haven't seen JAG, so no two cents about that) I think that thought is worth at least 3 cents. |
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