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Post by snacky on Oct 18, 2014 6:12:06 GMT
I know, just like the full on making out in public thing, I never really understood why she left for so long (like 3-6 months, right?) so soon after they had just gotten back together, even if it was to further her profession. But then again, we didn't get to see the aftermath of everything, so this reasoning wasn't in the forefront of our minds. And the fact that the Queen's Hotel thing didn't cause a scandal either...or again, at least not one we saw...didn't help us think along those lines. The show was always shielding us from this aspect for some reason. You'd think they'd WANT the extra drama. Good point-I wouldn't have wanted an entire episode, but a couple of brief mentions about their scandalous behavior would have been nice. I would have liked to have seen the Society Gossip Column with a scandalous photograph! |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 18, 2014 6:21:03 GMT
I can see why people subscribe to the virgin theory, and even agree with it to a point, but I can't ignore the little subtleties that hint that William has a past that belies his pomaded, nattily dressed persona. I tried to ask eclair the Question tonight. His basic instinct was that a guy has to find an outlet somehow. I brought up syphillis, shaky birth control, the idea someone might try to trap William into marriage, etc. I also brought up that William's previous engagement could have made virginity incremental/accidental. This is all before we even get into his religious upbringing/beliefs. Anyway - given all that - who would he sleep with? eclair was less sure after that. We discussed the "fapping" alternative. I pointed out the religious/health campaign against it. There was a bestseller against the "sin of onanism" at the time. We both agreed it was possible that book was widely ignored. Here's the thing about the "not a virgin" theory. It would take William feeling secure about the circumstances AND it would take a woman agreeing to do it (risking pregnancy, STDs, and taking social risks herself). Again that's leaving religious beliefs out of the equations! I think that's tough to get together. Maureen Jennings came up with the idea that a widow would probably be willing. The book William was just desperate to get laid. I think the calculus that the show William would do would be more careful than that. I agree that William's cautiousness favors virginity, and I think he's been largely celibate over the course of the show. But, as TCM shows, he is fully capable of forgetting himself and throwing caution to the wind-TGM shows this too. No, I don't think he's been with Julia, but I do think he had a fling with Anna in SOTWS. Was it an out of William experience, yes. But, he is capable of such a thing. I also suspect while he wasn't getting it on with good girls in his younger days, I do think he was seeing ladies of the night. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 18, 2014 6:38:59 GMT
I agree that William's cautiousness favors virginity, and I think he's been largely celibate over the course of the show. But, as TCM shows, he is fully capable of forgetting himself and throwing caution to the wind-TGM shows this too. No, I don't think he's been with Julia, but I do think he had a fling with Anna in SOTWS. Was it an out of William experience, yes. But, he is capable of such a thing. I also suspect while he wasn't getting it on with good girls in his younger days, I do think he was seeing ladies of the night. There are also variables to be plugged into the function here. Was younger William less sensible/cautious? Was he less aware or the dangers of STDs or the risks of getting saddled with a child before he was ready? Was the older William too desperate to care anymore? |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 18, 2014 6:55:03 GMT
I agree that William's cautiousness favors virginity, and I think he's been largely celibate over the course of the show. But, as TCM shows, he is fully capable of forgetting himself and throwing caution to the wind-TGM shows this too. No, I don't think he's been with Julia, but I do think he had a fling with Anna in SOTWS. Was it an out of William experience, yes. But, he is capable of such a thing. I also suspect while he wasn't getting it on with good girls in his younger days, I do think he was seeing ladies of the night. There are also variables to be plugged into the function here. Was younger William less sensible/cautious? Was he less aware or the dangers of STDs or the risks of getting saddled with a child before he was ready? Was the older William too desperate to care anymore? I think he might very well have been. Something in me thinks he was having something of a misspent youth and the thought of him working in a logging camp for years does not hint at seriousness. I think he woke up one day, realized he was becoming his father, and wondered what the hell he was doing. Thus, the birth of the responsible, cautious, driven William that we see in the show. Aside from being quite handy with Anna's corset in TMI, he's also quite brash and forward-something he seemed quite comfortable doing. Same with the TGM, which means that while he's not that person presently, it is in within him. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 18, 2014 6:58:37 GMT
I strongly suspect this to be the case. I'm going to have to rewatch it and look for that scene again. Next on my agenda after I recheck the Boobies!William scene, lol. Just rewatched it-it's at about the 20:40 mark. He's doing it right after he tries to talk to Julia and gets shot down. Forgetting his sorrows, perhaps? |
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Post by snacky on Oct 18, 2014 9:18:59 GMT
I think he might very well have been. Something in me thinks he was having something of a misspent youth and the thought of him working in a logging camp for years does not hint at seriousness. I think he woke up one day, realized he was becoming his father, and wondered what the hell he was doing. Thus, the birth of the responsible, cautious, driven William that we see in the show. Aside from being quite handy with Anna's corset in TMI, he's also quite brash and forward-something he seemed quite comfortable doing. Same with the TGM, which means that while he's not that person presently, it is in within him. I agree that corset facility presents something of a mystery. Could it have been developed with Liza? That may not mean they went all the way, though. I'm now thinking of Liza as a support argument for the Virgin Theory since that would allow William to remain a virgin by "accident" - "saving" himself incrementally for one potential bride at a time, as it were - never realizing he would have to hold out into his 40s. Then he just sort of got into his Bachelor groove, whatever that may have involved. Or was there a "naughty nun" at the Jesuit school teaching young boys the ways of the world - yet medically supervised by the Church. The Catholic Church used to run brothels, after all, just for such outlets. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 18, 2014 9:22:33 GMT
Next on my agenda after I recheck the Boobies!William scene, lol. Just rewatched it-it's at about the 20:40 mark. He's doing it right after he tries to talk to Julia and gets shot down. Forgetting his sorrows, perhaps? Ooh, put in that light, I'll definitely have to review William's "dark places". UPDATE: I checked, and I think William is perusing more than investigating. I guess a subconscious alarm is telling him Julia is about to get away...? Before h e's gone to any dark places with her. But...he is unwise to not be sitting at a desk at the time, lol... |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Oct 18, 2014 13:59:30 GMT
It's a good thing that William was not afraid of hurting her because he probably did guarantee she featured in the Society Column topics of hot gossip for months to come! And pressing against her like that - checking out the boobies or letting Julia know how he felt right at that moment? Hmm my virgin, and even my "no adultery" theory is looking shaky at the minute. But William did swear in a court of law. I agree with you, though - he definitely wasn't thinking about where he was, and he Wanted Julia with a capital W. I think he was doing both-showing her how he was feeling as well as getting to feel her up. I don't think they committed adultery in the strictest sense, but definitely walked a very fine line in that regard. I can't believe that there aren't more fics for Murdoch Au Natural.  I can see why people subscribe to the virgin theory, and even agree with it to a point, but I can't ignore the little subtleties that hint that William has a past that belies his pomaded, nattily dressed persona. It's cuz my MAN fic was so great everyone was intimidated.  |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Oct 18, 2014 14:09:54 GMT
Haha, someone on FB just made this comment: 'Thanks for keeping the show clean yet warm, and exciting.' Honey, it NEVER was very clean. You just weren't looking hard enough.  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 18, 2014 15:24:00 GMT
I think he might very well have been. Something in me thinks he was having something of a misspent youth and the thought of him working in a logging camp for years does not hint at seriousness. I think he woke up one day, realized he was becoming his father, and wondered what the hell he was doing. Thus, the birth of the responsible, cautious, driven William that we see in the show. Aside from being quite handy with Anna's corset in TMI, he's also quite brash and forward-something he seemed quite comfortable doing. Same with the TGM, which means that while he's not that person presently, it is in within him. I agree that corset facility presents something of a mystery. Could it have been developed with Liza? That may not mean they went all the way, though. I'm now thinking of Liza as a support argument for the Virgin Theory since that would allow William to remain a virgin by "accident" - "saving" himself incrementally for one potential bride at a time, as it were - never realizing he would have to hold out into his 40s. Then he just sort of got into his Bachelor groove, whatever that may have involved. Or was there a "naughty nun" at the Jesuit school teaching young boys the ways of the world - yet medically supervised by the Church. The Catholic Church used to run brothels, after all, just for such outlets. But it's not just the corset either-it's the brash, openly lusty William that hints at previous experience (I 'm thinking distant past) such as making comments about vows of celibacy, the open lecherous looks, and putting his hands on her. And, he's comfortable doing it-it speaks of ease and therefore previous experience with these types of situations. Just my .02. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 18, 2014 15:28:42 GMT
Just rewatched it-it's at about the 20:40 mark. He's doing it right after he tries to talk to Julia and gets shot down. Forgetting his sorrows, perhaps? Ooh, put in that light, I'll definitely have to review William's "dark places". UPDATE: I checked, and I think William is perusing more than investigating. I guess a subconscious alarm is telling him Julia is about to get away...? Before h e's gone to any dark places with her. But...he is unwise to not be sitting at a desk at the time, lol... I think it was an attempt to get his mind off of Julia and therefore a moment of hypocrisy-but I don't think his heart was really in it-it seems more distraction than anything. He doesn't seem too concerned or guilty when George walks in-of course we can't see what he does with the pics either.  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 18, 2014 15:31:32 GMT
I think he was doing both-showing her how he was feeling as well as getting to feel her up. I don't think they committed adultery in the strictest sense, but definitely walked a very fine line in that regard. I can't believe that there aren't more fics for Murdoch Au Natural. I can see why people subscribe to the virgin theory, and even agree with it to a point, but I can't ignore the little subtleties that hint that William has a past that belies his pomaded, nattily dressed persona. It's cuz my MAN fic was so great everyone was intimidated. Well, yeah. It was greatness! But seriously, I don't understand why this fandom doesn't have more fic. It truly baffles the mind-the show screams for it. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 18, 2014 15:33:47 GMT
Haha, someone on FB just made this comment: 'Thanks for keeping the show clean yet warm, and exciting.' Honey, it NEVER was very clean. You just weren't looking hard enough. Hahaha! That person fails at innuendo, subtext, and reading between the lines. This show is deliciously dirty-but it's just under the surface-you have to basically be pervs like us and be looking for it I guess. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Oct 18, 2014 15:41:13 GMT
It's cuz my MAN fic was so great everyone was intimidated. Well, yeah. It was greatness! But seriously, I don't understand why this fandom doesn't have more fic. It truly baffles the mind-the show screams for it. Can't go wrong with dominoes. If we had thousands of fics like other fandoms most of them would be crap/uber disturbing and you wouldn't want to read them anyway. I'm kinda glad it's stayed so small and relatively 'pure'. There are so many unfathomable pairings in other fandoms. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Oct 18, 2014 15:43:53 GMT
Haha, someone on FB just made this comment: 'Thanks for keeping the show clean yet warm, and exciting.' Honey, it NEVER was very clean. You just weren't looking hard enough. Hahaha! That person fails at innuendo, subtext, and reading between the lines. This show is deliciously dirty-but it's just under the surface-you have to basically be pervs like us and be looking for it I guess. I made a post about all the butt staring awhile back. Even Doyle was doing it when his wife was dying! |
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