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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 23, 2014 4:29:59 GMT
You've got to think that the follow through from that might reach furniture breaking heights XD. James Bond, hahahaha! Good one. IMO, William sees himself as a very intelligent 'every man'. And I don't think the word suave is even in his vocabulary, extensive as it is. I'm still trying to pin down the 'dark places'. In religious terms that would be lust. A powerful force that can leave one feeling out of control. Sex however, wouldn't be a bad thing, just something that should be done within the confines of marriage. So racy pictures whether pornographic or not, would lead to lustful feelings about a woman who is not one's wife, which is bad. Such a conundrum. Sadly the writers will never let us be a fly on the wall for the James Bond fantasies: furniture might fly in that one. While William does model himself as the proper "middle class" man at work, I do think he has a few other fantasy selves stored away, and one of them is very much a Ladies Man. That's the one that came out in The Green Muse. In his view, knowledge is powerful in every respect, including giving the ladies what they want. There's no question he's read *every* book on that subject. I wonder if he even has a few of those "pornographic" books he was so quick to condemn. (For "research" purposes, of course.). I agree "dark places" = lust. Perhaps also depravity, perversion, anything that seems to deviate from some church-sanctioned norm or that seems to be about acting on animal instinct instead of following the civilized practices of love and marriage? William's ambiguity was in itself intriguing, because we don't know whether he meant mere desire or that the picture actually triggered some scene out of Marquis de Sade for him. The more proper the Victorians were, the more "sinful" the thoughts they had to repress: and William is a very, very proper man.  We have to remember that they've just lived through the Victorian era with all of its really twisted ideas about sex. These people draped shawls or rugs over pianos lest the sight of its legs unleash the beast the lurked within every man's heart. Sex was a duty a woman had to endure, a man could enjoy it but not with his wife after all that why housemaids and whores existed in the first place. Based on social norms a wife was a vessel to bear children and a man didn't have sex unless he wanted a child. Pregnancy was kept as much out of the public notice as possible and women were encouraged to disguise their expanding bellies and take the air only in the very early morning or late evening when fewer people were about. During the latter months of her pregnancy a woman was supposed to stay home and perhaps have tea with her very closest female friends and relatives. This always makes me laugh because most people knew how babies were made but being pregnant was something to be hidden from everyone then one day its like "Look Algernon. I just found this little baby. Perhaps we should take it in and raise it as our own." And that is only the tip of the iceberg that was Victorian attitudes towards sex. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 23, 2014 5:49:13 GMT
Sadly the writers will never let us be a fly on the wall for the James Bond fantasies: furniture might fly in that one. While William does model himself as the proper "middle class" man at work, I do think he has a few other fantasy selves stored away, and one of them is very much a Ladies Man. That's the one that came out in The Green Muse. In his view, knowledge is powerful in every respect, including giving the ladies what they want. There's no question he's read *every* book on that subject. I wonder if he even has a few of those "pornographic" books he was so quick to condemn. (For "research" purposes, of course.). I agree "dark places" = lust. Perhaps also depravity, perversion, anything that seems to deviate from some church-sanctioned norm or that seems to be about acting on animal instinct instead of following the civilized practices of love and marriage? William's ambiguity was in itself intriguing, because we don't know whether he meant mere desire or that the picture actually triggered some scene out of Marquis de Sade for him. The more proper the Victorians were, the more "sinful" the thoughts they had to repress: and William is a very, very proper man. We have to remember that they've just lived through the Victorian era with all of its really twisted ideas about sex. These people draped shawls or rugs over pianos lest the sight of its legs unleash the beast the lurked within every man's heart. Sex was a duty a woman had to endure, a man could enjoy it but not with his wife after all that why housemaids and whores existed in the first place. Based on social norms a wife was a vessel to bear children and a man didn't have sex unless he wanted a child. Pregnancy was kept as much out of the public notice as possible and women were encouraged to disguise their expanding bellies and take the air only in the very early morning or late evening when fewer people were about. During the latter months of her pregnancy a woman was supposed to stay home and perhaps have tea with her very closest female friends and relatives. This always makes me laugh because most people knew how babies were made but being pregnant was something to be hidden from everyone then one day its like "Look Algernon. I just found this little baby. Perhaps we should take it in and raise it as our own." And that is only the tip of the iceberg that was Victorian attitudes towards sex. This is the Victorian (upper class) norm - but we've crossed into the twentieth century now, and we're only a couple of decades away from flappers! Times are rapidly a'changing. Julia is certainly no passive vessel, and I think William is willing to follow where she leads in the bedroom. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 23, 2014 6:24:30 GMT
This is the Victorian (upper class) norm - but we've crossed into the twentieth century now, and we're only a couple of decades away from flappers! Times are rapidly a'changing. Julia is certainly no passive vessel, and I think William is willing to follow where she leads in the bedroom. I don't think Julia will have any Victorian hangups when it comes to sex, hopefully William can keep up with her. |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 23, 2014 7:04:12 GMT
And that is only the tip of the iceberg that was Victorian attitudes towards sex. This is the Victorian (upper class) norm - but we've crossed into the twentieth century now, and we're only a couple of decades away from flappers! Times are rapidly a'changing. Julia is certainly no passive vessel, and I think William is willing to follow where she leads in the bedroom. Well, that is a complex issue, but the upper classes behaved generally this way. It has to be remembered that from the latter decades of the nineteenth century on there was a strong movement for self improvement, and the upper part of the working class population worked very hard to emulate the upper classes, and these people comprised the nascent middle class that would overwhelm English Society. The flapper era was a reaction to World War I and the conservative segment of society that wanted to return to the status quo after the war. Over twenty million men were killed, injured or missing when the final numbers were tallied and it was clear that the any gains made in the war were not worth the sacrifice and Society Women exemplified the longing to return to happier times clinging as they did to long skirts and sedate amusements. The younger people realized the world had changed irrevocably and the lives they should have had had been destroyed and they adopted sensational dress and elaborate behaviors trying to at one time break from the past and make a new culture to live in. Of course the Great Depression truncated their activities and the people of the Empire and the United States, retreated back into a less rigid version of Victorian propriety to weather the storm. So yes, I agree that change was starting to make its mark on society, but it would be imperceptible to those who did not want to see it and it took the war to overturn societal norms. However sex is and always has been the the thing that trips us up. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 23, 2014 7:35:47 GMT
This is the Victorian (upper class) norm - but we've crossed into the twentieth century now, and we're only a couple of decades away from flappers! Times are rapidly a'changing. Julia is certainly no passive vessel, and I think William is willing to follow where she leads in the bedroom. Well, that is a complex issue, but the upper classes behaved generally this way. It has to be remembered that from the latter decades of the nineteenth century on there was a strong movement for self improvement, and the upper part of the working class population worked very hard to emulate the upper classes, and these people comprised the nascent middle class that would overwhelm English Society. Even at the time of William and Julia there's the whole bohemian/Moulin Rouge crowd as represented by the types that Sally Pendrick hung out with. A couple of months ago I was reading a memoir of late 19th-c. San Francisco that described how the novel Trilby was all the rage - basically a series of stories of Boho life. The lifestyle was there for those willing to embrace it. William is obviously not ready to embrace it. But Julia? Maaaaaaaaaaybe....  |
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Post by snacky on Oct 23, 2014 7:42:48 GMT
This is the Victorian (upper class) norm - but we've crossed into the twentieth century now, and we're only a couple of decades away from flappers! Times are rapidly a'changing. Julia is certainly no passive vessel, and I think William is willing to follow where she leads in the bedroom. I don't think Julia will have any Victorian hangups when it comes to sex, hopefully William can keep up with her. I'd bet anything that Julia was analyzed by Freud in Vienna and got all her hang ups sorted out then. She's going to wear poor William out. I really do wish I could find a youtube clip of the West Wing bit about the tie that "screams domination"...and who gets to wear it "later"....This is the same relationship. I don't think anyone could call the President in the West Wing unmanly for it. |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 23, 2014 16:01:18 GMT
I don't think Julia will have any Victorian hangups when it comes to sex, hopefully William can keep up with her. I'd bet anything that Julia was analyzed by Freud in Vienna and got all her hang ups sorted out then. She's going to wear poor William out. I really do wish I could find a youtube clip of the West Wing bit about the tie that "screams domination"...and who gets to wear it "later"....This is the same relationship. I don't think anyone could call the President in the West Wing unmanly for it. I would love to hear Julia explaining this self-knowledge to William . I completely agree with you about the West Wing parallel. As I recall, Abigail Bartlett was also a doctor.... |
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Post by snacky on Oct 23, 2014 16:19:18 GMT
I'd bet anything that Julia was analyzed by Freud in Vienna and got all her hang ups sorted out then. She's going to wear poor William out. I really do wish I could find a youtube clip of the West Wing bit about the tie that "screams domination"...and who gets to wear it "later"....This is the same relationship. I don't think anyone could call the President in the West Wing unmanly for it. I would love to hear Julia explaining this self-knowledge to William . I completely agree with you about the West Wing parallel. As I recall, Abigail Bartlett was also a doctor.... I was hoping this was a secret scene after Murdoch in Ladies Wear.  Actually this would make some pretty fun fic - it might even be doable on TV. Julia would throw out some symbolism, William would have to puzzle out what it means~  |
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Post by snacky on Oct 23, 2014 16:19:36 GMT
I'd bet anything that Julia was analyzed by Freud in Vienna and got all her hang ups sorted out then. She's going to wear poor William out. I really do wish I could find a youtube clip of the West Wing bit about the tie that "screams domination"...and who gets to wear it "later"....This is the same relationship. I don't think anyone could call the President in the West Wing unmanly for it. I would love to hear Julia explaining this self-knowledge to William . I completely agree with you about the West Wing parallel. As I recall, Abigail Bartlett was also a doctor.... I was hoping this was a secret scene after Murdoch in Ladies Wear. Actually this would make some pretty fun fic - it might even be doable on TV. Julia would throw out some symbolism, William would have to puzzle out what it means~ |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 23, 2014 16:27:44 GMT
Well, that is a complex issue, but the upper classes behaved generally this way. It has to be remembered that from the latter decades of the nineteenth century on there was a strong movement for self improvement, and the upper part of the working class population worked very hard to emulate the upper classes, and these people comprised the nascent middle class that would overwhelm English Society. Even at the time of William and Julia there's the whole bohemian/Moulin Rouge crowd as represented by the types that Sally Pendrick hung out with. A couple of months ago I was reading a memoir of late 19th-c. San Francisco that described how the novel Trilby was all the rage - basically a series of stories of Boho life. The lifestyle was there for those willing to embrace it. William is obviously not ready to embrace it. But Julia? Maaaaaaaaaaybe.... There were (and still are) many groups of people who practiced many forms of free love and even sexual experimentation but just because they existed it doesn't follow that anyone could participate. These groups were very secretive and very careful of who could join mostly to protect themselves from exposure which would destroy the individuals involved. I have no doubt that Julia would gladly explore all things sexual, and I am hoping our William will join in the spirit and will discover many hidden talents ! |
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Post by snacky on Oct 23, 2014 16:28:59 GMT
There were (and still are) many groups of people who practiced many forms of free love and even sexual experimentation but just because they existed it doesn't follow that anyone could participate. These groups were very secretive and very careful of who could join mostly to protect themselves from exposure which would destroy the individuals involved. I have no doubt that Julia would gladly explore all things sexual, and I am hoping our William will join in the spirit and will discover many hidden talents ! I just can't resist the notion of Julia getting a little kinky in private, and William loving every minute of it: that's why he waited for her! |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 23, 2014 16:33:26 GMT
There were (and still are) many groups of people who practiced many forms of free love and even sexual experimentation but just because they existed it doesn't follow that anyone could participate. These groups were very secretive and very careful of who could join mostly to protect themselves from exposure which would destroy the individuals involved. I have no doubt that Julia would gladly explore all things sexual, and I am hoping our William will join in the spirit and will discover many hidden talents ! I just can't resist the notion of Julia getting a little kinky in private, and William loving every minute of it: that's why he waited for her! Absolutely! Beneath that homburg beats the heart of wild man! |
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Post by snacky on Oct 23, 2014 16:46:22 GMT
I just can't resist the notion of Julia getting a little kinky in private, and William loving every minute of it: that's why he waited for her! Absolutely! Beneath that homburg beats the heart of wild man! I can't quite decide whether he has his own ideas (from reading) or whether he needs Julia to give him some cues, though. |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 23, 2014 19:54:06 GMT
Absolutely! Beneath that homburg beats the heart of wild man! I can't quite decide whether he has his own ideas (from reading) or whether he needs Julia to give him some cues, though. I think both are true. William is all for reading about new ideas and machinery, but he's rarely content to leave it at that...he likes to build on and experiment with the information. Hence the Kama Sutra is already packed  . |
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Post by snacky on Oct 23, 2014 19:57:28 GMT
I can't quite decide whether he has his own ideas (from reading) or whether he needs Julia to give him some cues, though. I think both are true. William is all for reading about new ideas and machinery, but he's rarely content to leave it at that...he likes to build on and experiment with the information. Hence the Kama Sutra is already packed . I go back in forth on this. Sometimes William seems exceedingly clever. Then sometimes he has that Forrest Gump thing going on. You can never be sure whether he's already studied the Kama Sutra in detail (curious mind in action) or whether Julia is going to have to slip a bookmarked copy under his pillow. |
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