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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 6, 2014 18:11:34 GMT
Arthur, in my mind, was the glue that held the land together. He united the tribes of Britain and fought off the invading Saxons to build a strong British identity. Then, throughout his reign, the land enjoyed peace and prosperity, which was then destroyed upon his death. So yes, justice, honor, fidelity.
The constabulary itself could be seen as functioning as a sort of roundtable; a gathering of knights around a common code of honor, receiving and accomplishing quests for the betterment of their community. But I don't know that Toronto corresponds to Camelot in that it's very grounded in reality/history, whereas Camelot transcended time and space.
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Post by snacky on Jun 7, 2014 3:22:25 GMT
Arthur, in my mind, was the glue that held the land together. He united the tribes of Britain and fought off the invading Saxons to build a strong British identity. Then, throughout his reign, the land enjoyed peace and prosperity, which was then destroyed upon his death. So yes, justice, honor, fidelity. The constabulary itself could be seen as functioning as a sort of roundtable; a gathering of knights around a common code of honor, receiving and accomplishing quests for the betterment of their community. But I don't know that Toronto corresponds to Camelot in that it's very grounded in reality/history, whereas Camelot transcended time and space. Maybe King Arthur is Prime Minister Laurier. William was certainly happy enough to be serving him well!  I would think Canada corresponds more to Britain, especially since they are still struggling to unite many provinces. Toronto is happy, prosperous, and modern, because it's on the Great Lakes shipping hub. The constabulary have the "code" of knights, but they are also hierarchical, so that conflicts with the idea of the round table. Unless you say that some of them are really following Freemason Brotherhood rules, which would be closer to the Arthurian ideal. |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 7, 2014 4:30:43 GMT
It's true that the constabulary is hierarchical, but I believe that the code that they commonly adhere to is more important, not only in Toronto but in Camelot as well. And looking back on the Arthurian tales, even though all knights were considered equal, some were still more important than others. For example, Lancelot was considered the greatest knight, yet Galahad, Percival, and Bors were the only ones considered worthy of the Grail Quest.
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Post by snacky on Jun 7, 2014 5:07:31 GMT
It's true that the constabulary is hierarchical, but I believe that the code that they commonly adhere to is more important, not only in Toronto but in Camelot as well. And looking back on the Arthurian tales, even though all knights were considered equal, some were still more important than others. For example, Lancelot was considered the greatest knight, yet Galahad, Percival, and Bors were the only ones considered worthy of the Grail Quest. The hierarchy was a mutually recognized meritocracy rather than an externally imposed bureaucracy, though. The "greatest knight" could be challenged at any time. But, back to Camelot Toronto: if William is Lancelot, where is this going? All I remember is Lancelot went mad and was found eating grass or something somewhere. In terms of what would drive him mad - that would probably be a conflict between reason and faith, law/duty and mercy. I doubt it would get to the point of grass-eating, though. Grass-smoking, maybe. XD This was the Moulin Rouge era. XD |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 7, 2014 5:14:33 GMT
I don't remember the details of Lancelot's madness, but it would have happened after the fall of Arthur and Camelot. So Murdoch's own fall would only come after some greater outside calamity that would signal an end to their existing way of life.
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Post by snacky on Jun 7, 2014 5:15:20 GMT
I don't remember the details of Lancelot's madness, but it would have happened after the fall of Arthur and Camelot. So Murdoch's own fall would only come after some greater outside calamity that would signal an end to their existing way of life. *cough* excommunication *cough* Oh, Lancelot is cured by a vision of the Grail: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LancelotWhat's the grail again? Justice? |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 7, 2014 5:28:53 GMT
The grail is the "Cup of Christ." It could only be achieved through purity of heart and dignity of life. Because the honor of knighthood was closely tied to religious ideas, achieving the grail was considered the highest honor a knight could attain. I've yet to identify a grail equivalent in MM.
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Post by snacky on Jun 7, 2014 5:41:51 GMT
The grail is the "Cup of Christ." It could only be achieved through purity of heart and dignity of life. Because the honor of knighthood was closely tied to religious ideas, achieving the grail was considered the highest honor a knight could attain. I've yet to identify a grail equivalent in MM. An ideal of perfect justice doesn't cut the mustard? Or, given that William is a Catholic, maybe it's Sacred Justice, divinely sanctioned by God. Or maybe it's the reconciliation of justice with love? |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 8, 2014 2:32:07 GMT
I'm not sure that the Holy Grail was ever a symbol of justice. Excalibur, the Roundtable, Camelot, Arthur himself...any one of these things were better symbols of justice than the Grail. The Grail was more about the journey to achieve it than it's actual presence, although it's presence did bring about truth and healing.
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Post by snacky on Jun 8, 2014 2:37:44 GMT
I'm not sure that the Holy Grail was ever a symbol of justice. Excalibur, the Roundtable, Camelot, Arthur himself...any one of these things were better symbols of justice than the Grail. The Grail was more about the journey to achieve it than it's actual presence, although it's presence did bring about truth and healing. Wouldn't Justice correspond with Truth? Or wouldn't it give William peace if Justice did correspond with Truth? Truth probably means Love/Divine Love in the Grail context, too. |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 8, 2014 2:50:39 GMT
I suppose in a large sense, Justice and Truth would be closely related, but there can be truth without justice in some situations. For William, the situation with Ava Moon would be an example of this kind of scenario. So William will probably only find peace where truth and justice correspond.
And yes, I would say that truth and divine love exist closely together within the Grail tale.
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Post by snacky on Jun 8, 2014 3:07:12 GMT
I suppose in a large sense, Justice and Truth would be closely related, but there can be truth without justice in some situations. For William, the situation with Ava Moon would be an example of this kind of scenario. So William will probably only find peace where truth and justice correspond. And yes, I would say that truth and divine love exist closely together within the Grail tale. Since it's a tough trick to get Justice and Truth (Divine Love) to correspond, and that would give William peace, that feels Grail-esque to me. Gosh this conversation reminds me of the good old days of X-Files Holy Blood, Holy Grail meta-interpretation (chiefly looking for evidence Scully was Of The Bloodline) before Dan Brown swooped in and ripped off all the friendly chat to make his personal fortune. *throws mental darts at a mental picture of Dan Brown pinned to a mental bull's eye* By the way, don't say anything here you might want to save for your novel. You never know if Dan Brown is lurking.  |
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Post by wildhorseannie on Jun 8, 2014 3:12:48 GMT
Haha, I guess I'll have to get a good ol' typewriter like George to write that page-turning novel on  |
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Post by snacky on Jun 8, 2014 3:18:38 GMT
Haha, I guess I'll have to get a good ol' typewriter like George to write that page-turning novel on I keep mine on a million scraps of paper in a shoe box. |
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