|
|
Post by Hodge on Feb 18, 2015 23:33:13 GMT
Not a bad episode, but a bit predictable. Am I the only one who strongly suspected before now, that Emily was a lesbian? It's been coming since Lillian Moss was first introduced. |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 0:48:33 GMT
Not a bad episode, but a bit predictable. Am I the only one who strongly suspected before now, that Emily was a lesbian? I think everyone on this forum was surprised that anyone who has been watching MM this season could be surprised about Emily and Lillian. Is there such a thing as "heterosexual blinder glasses"? |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 0:59:25 GMT
HEAR THAT MM WRITERS? You have your mission should you choose to accept it! Hodge claims she can't be sold on Lillian, but as long as she's not a villain, this is just a test of writing and acting talent.  |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 8:37:54 GMT
(Edit: Hey, this was my 100th post! Didn't take me nearly as long to reach 100 as Murdoch did.....) Congrats future Goddess! Though we may disagree on some things, I am a huge fan of forum diversity, and I especially welcome your historical knowledge.  |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 9:15:15 GMT
When Georgina was called for the show she thought it was for a guest star role, she was surprised to find it was as a regular cast member. Since then she's married and her husband was working in NL on ROD. Whilst that has now finished he may still be working full time in NL and Georgina may have decided she'd rather be with her husband full time. I have to admit it if this is the case it would probably have been better if hubby had got a job in Toronto as there's more production going on there but who knows...? It wouldn't surprise me if Emily's on the way out. Acting work can take people many places. The other hot spots are Vancouver, and of course L.A. But if they want steady Canadian work, Toronto is still a good place to make their home. This still feels like catastrophizing to me, though I'm not sure why. I thought catastrophizing over Julia leaving the show right after the wedding related to subconscious fear about the effect of the wedding, if not an actual effect of the wedding. But now Emily? The MM cast has been remarkably stable over the years. Julia may have looked like she was leaving on a train, but she didn't. William may have looked like he was leaving the constabulary, but he didn't. Inspector B may have looked like he was dying but he didn't. The only semi-regular cast member to die was Hodge, and he wasn't a lead cast member like Emily. This makes it look like like there is something about being on MM that actors regard as a pleasure and a privilege, worth holding on to. Perhaps with all the idiocy over Lillian, you feel you can't express dislike of her without appearing homophobic and discomfort over that has transformed into covert ways to not only get rid of Lillian, but since the couple is now a "thing", get rid of Emily in the sweep? If so - don't worry, your dislike of Lillian was on the record long before we were treated to the Internet's lowest common denominator! I do expect to see a lot of very cheesy "I'm not homophobic, but..." ideas to get rid of Lillian to bubble up from the cauldron for the remainder of the season, tough. I'm counting on them to be just as dumb as the fact that the people who state them probably ARE homophobic, though.  I'm committed to Team Lillian, though - she would have to take the brick and personally conk Julia over the head with it, and spit and swear on Julia's grave afterward, for me to start regard her as "the enemy". For now, though, since I'm on her Team, I will continue to interpret her Flawed behavior, just as I would for Inspector B, William, Julia, or even Emily. *waves pirate flag of Team Lillian*  |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 9:38:00 GMT
Lesbianism was never illegal in Canada. We inherited our laws on homosexuality from Britain at Confederation. Sexual relations between women were not included, as Queen Victoria didn't believe they could happen. The threat to Emily is through the social mores of the period, which means she could still lose her job, but she wouldn't face the criminal action that Giles would face. Queen Anne on the other hand was quite notorious for her interest in other women, and some of her companions, such as Sarah Churchill, tried to out her when they fell out of favor. Churchill's bias in the matter, however, makes it hard to discern how much was true and how much was the smear of a disgruntled former employee. Her case actually brings to light how sapphism could be framed if someone did want to offer it up as a negative case of "perversion" as opposed to the regular "ladies at titillating play". There is also the testimony of Benedetta Carlini ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benedetta_Carlini ). Her actions could be called "perverted" since she was acting the part of a "male", and I think all other cases that were considered problematic could be chalked up this way. They would all start with cross-dressing and other "gender inappropriate" behaviors first. My own historical studies did not go farther than the early Enlightenment, so there is a big gap before the period of Murdoch Mysteries. However, if that gap can be filled in with "basically the same attitudes" as the period that I studied, then I would buy that psychoanalysis "invented" the science of the lesbian as a "sexual pervert", and the legal definitions and cases followed. |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 10:06:12 GMT
Actually, since Republic of Doyle ended, Georgina's husband has been working in Los Angeles and I believe Georgina has been as well, at least part of the time. It could be that she is thinking of relocating, but I hope not......I like her character and I think there is a lot of opportunity for her character to grow........
Cheers
I hadn't seen that as I'm not a fan of ROD and don't follow the actors. All the more reason for her to want out. It would be a shame but to be honest, other than Helene wanting out of the morgue, I didn't see a need for her character. Whilst I don't mind Emily I wouldn't miss her. Ouch - this would be a crisis, since I don't see Julia going back to the morgue! It would be a step down for her career-wise at this point! While I support the independent crime lab as her own business, I see her in a variety of roles there - manager, psychological profiler, chemist, detective...not simply dealing with the dead bodies. In fact I think Helene would be more happy with test tubes of blood, just calling herself a "brilliant pathologist"... Someone has to be in the morgue, and since that his an important role in an unfolding murder case with the constabulary, the person who has that role is going to get a chunk of time. Is MM going to find a THIRD Lady Doctor to fill that slot? That would be just weird. But if they put a male there, that would also shift the gender balance of the show and probably make the female audience very unhappy. We all saw the redundancy of Emily from the beginning, but the major problem was that her character wasn't well developed, and she wasn't capturing our imaginations like Julia was. Therefore her screen-time was just a side character sucking up time that could have been used for William and Julia. But if her character were more developed, and we did identify with her more, her screen time would feel more valid. IMHO, the writers started to give Emily some dimensionality this season, though still not enough back-story. I started to understand her as a chronic thrill-seeker and a rebel and a bit of a corset-burner. Because I'm on Team Lillian, I'm willing to see Emily grown in conjunction with her relationship with Lillian as well. So, IMHO, if Emily leaves now, she will be leaving just when her character finally has a chance of blossoming into something interesting. Ps. That Mary Poppins look was also a bit mind-bendy when contrasted with the Wednesday Addams look and also a few Noir Epic Pose looks Emily has had going on this season...wait, I forgot the "badass slowmo fashion diva" - I don't even know how to categorize that, but I LIKE IT! |
|
|
|
Post by Hodge on Feb 19, 2015 18:39:31 GMT
When Georgina was called for the show she thought it was for a guest star role, she was surprised to find it was as a regular cast member. Since then she's married and her husband was working in NL on ROD. Whilst that has now finished he may still be working full time in NL and Georgina may have decided she'd rather be with her husband full time. I have to admit it if this is the case it would probably have been better if hubby had got a job in Toronto as there's more production going on there but who knows...? It wouldn't surprise me if Emily's on the way out. Acting work can take people many places. The other hot spots are Vancouver, and of course L.A. But if they want steady Canadian work, Toronto is still a good place to make their home. This still feels like catastrophizing to me, though I'm not sure why. I thought catastrophizing over Julia leaving the show right after the wedding related to subconscious fear about the effect of the wedding, if not an actual effect of the wedding. But now Emily? The MM cast has been remarkably stable over the years. Julia may have looked like she was leaving on a train, but she didn't. William may have looked like he was leaving the constabulary, but he didn't. Inspector B may have looked like he was dying but he didn't. The only semi-regular cast member to die was Hodge, and he wasn't a lead cast member like Emily. This makes it look like like there is something about being on MM that actors regard as a pleasure and a privilege, worth holding on to. Perhaps with all the idiocy over Lillian, you feel you can't express dislike of her without appearing homophobic and discomfort over that has transformed into covert ways to not only get rid of Lillian, but since the couple is now a "thing", get rid of Emily in the sweep? If so - don't worry, your dislike of Lillian was on the record long before we were treated to the Internet's lowest common denominator! I do expect to see a lot of very cheesy "I'm not homophobic, but..." ideas to get rid of Lillian to bubble up from the cauldron for the remainder of the season, tough. I'm counting on them to be just as dumb as the fact that the people who state them probably ARE homophobic, though. I'm committed to Team Lillian, though - she would have to take the brick and personally conk Julia over the head with it, and spit and swear on Julia's grave afterward, for me to start regard her as "the enemy". For now, though, since I'm on her Team, I will continue to interpret her Flawed behavior, just as I would for Inspector B, William, Julia, or even Emily. *waves pirate flag of Team Lillian* I'll be honest snacky, I haven't even read to the bottom of your post because it's so ludicrous! If you knew me you'd know there's no-one less homophobic than me, I'm also quite happy expressing my opinion whether people like it or not. I have long time friends that are gay and lesbian. Before moving here my landladies were a married couple that I lunched with regularly. I go to dog shows, probably 75% of the men are gay and a good portion of the women if I was homophobic I would have quit long ago but here I am 25 years later. I couldn't care less what category people belong to and I believe I'm on record here saying everyone has it in them if they meet the right person. Which is what I think happened to Emily. My reasons for not liking Lillian Moss have nothing to do with her sexual orientation, I saw that right from the start and was gung ho for Emily to explore a relationship with her. What I DO NOT like about Lillian is her attitude towards anyone that doesn't appear to agree with her let alone strongly disagree. She makes assumptions about people without any knowledge of them and thinks her way is the only way. She won't take advice from people that have been though tougher times than she where women are concerned. Apparently she was in an engineering programme at university. How did she get on that? Julia struggled to get on a medical programme which would be considered much more appropriate for a woman at that time and yet she dismisses Julia because she's appears too conventional. Once again she doesn't know Julia and what she had to go through to get where she is now both professionally and personally but she disses her as 'selling out' because she decided to marry a MAN. I might also add that I don't think Lillian Moss is 'out to do harm' as some people think, she's just a misguided woman with a grudge against society. |
|
|
|
Post by Hodge on Feb 19, 2015 18:43:47 GMT
(Edit: Hey, this was my 100th post! Didn't take me nearly as long to reach 100 as Murdoch did.....) Congratulations! |
|
|
|
Post by Hodge on Feb 19, 2015 18:57:29 GMT
I hadn't seen that as I'm not a fan of ROD and don't follow the actors. All the more reason for her to want out. It would be a shame but to be honest, other than Helene wanting out of the morgue, I didn't see a need for her character. Whilst I don't mind Emily I wouldn't miss her. Ouch - this would be a crisis, since I don't see Julia going back to the morgue! It would be a step down for her career-wise at this point! While I support the independent crime lab as her own business, I see her in a variety of roles there - manager, psychological profiler, chemist, detective...not simply dealing with the dead bodies. In fact I think Helene would be more happy with test tubes of blood, just calling herself a "brilliant pathologist"... Someone has to be in the morgue, and since that his an important role in an unfolding murder case with the constabulary, the person who has that role is going to get a chunk of time. Is MM going to find a THIRD Lady Doctor to fill that slot? That would be just weird. But if they put a male there, that would also shift the gender balance of the show and probably make the female audience very unhappy. We all saw the redundancy of Emily from the beginning, but the major problem was that her character wasn't well developed, and she wasn't capturing our imaginations like Julia was. Therefore her screen-time was just a side character sucking up time that could have been used for William and Julia. But if her character were more developed, and we did identify with her more, her screen time would feel more valid. IMHO, the writers started to give Emily some dimensionality this season, though still not enough back-story. I started to understand her as a chronic thrill-seeker and a rebel and a bit of a corset-burner. Because I'm on Team Lillian, I'm willing to see Emily grown in conjunction with her relationship with Lillian as well. So, IMHO, if Emily leaves now, she will be leaving just when her character finally has a chance of blossoming into something interesting. Ps. That Mary Poppins look was also a bit mind-bendy when contrasted with the Wednesday Addams look and also a few Noir Epic Pose looks Emily has had going on this season...wait, I forgot the "badass slowmo fashion diva" - I don't even know how to categorize that, but I LIKE IT! I agree that Georgina leaving would be a crisis as Julia (never mind Helene) would not want to go back to the morgue regardless of how many people would like her to return. Also bringing in a man wouldn't work, though I did love to hate Dr. Francis. Perhaps they could bring in another female pathologist if the Chief Constable believed that female pathologists did a better job (which they have so far). That slowmo shot was fabulous! WTG PM!! |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 21:17:31 GMT
@hodge - I can't quote the relevant post on my Kindle because it's too long, but please read it - I was exonerating you from homophobia, not accusing you. You're position has been very clear, and I'm sorry if it sounded like I was lumping you in rather than separating you out.  *My pirate flag is still up for Dissenting Team Lillian, though. Bwahahaha. XD |
|
|
|
Post by Hodge on Feb 19, 2015 21:22:56 GMT
@hodge - I can't quote the relevant post on my Kindle because it's too long, but please read it - I was exonerating you from homophobia, not accusing you. You're position has been very clear, and I'm sorry if it sounded like I was lumping you in rather than separating you out. *My pirate flag is still up for Dissenting Team Lillian, though. Bwahahaha. XD I apologize if I took it the wrong way. Perhaps I should have read the whole post after all....  I don't get why you felt the need to exonerate me though. Did what I said at any point come across as homophobic? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 21:49:37 GMT
I like Emily not being straight, because I'm not myself, but you just know it'll somehow end in tears with Lillian. It always does when they have gay characters in MM. I hope Lillian doesn't become a murder victim, Emily doesn't deserve that kind of trauma. Notice how she has more spark and more in common with Lillian than George. It's getting laughable now about how Emily has more spark with anyone but George. His showing jealousy over Brackenreid was expected, pfft he's not over her. Julia will probably be Emily's only real support when it all comes out, going by Brackenreid's attitude. At least she'll be understanding as she's always been gay friendly. It was nice to have Julia back profiling on a case, there hasn't been enough of that this season. Hopefully there will be more. Emily taking centre stage in a case was also good to see. Two female centric episodes in a row, good. Brackenreid's nephew is a scumbag, but they did a good job of casting an actor who could really be the nephew. I agree with you: I like Emily not being straight. That is why I am a little disappointed in the ending: it looks too rushed and like you say, bound to end in heartbreak. It would have been interesting to have a main character explore living that alternate life in that time period. I look forward to seeing how Julia supports her, probably keeping lots from everyone else, even her husband. It's too bad the nephew was a bad egg. I got a kick out of his accent, and how much he really looked like Thomas. When Georgina was called for the show she thought it was for a guest star role, she was surprised to find it was as a regular cast member. Since then she's married and her husband was working in NL on ROD. Whilst that has now finished he may still be working full time in NL and Georgina may have decided she'd rather be with her husband full time. I have to admit it if this is the case it would probably have been better if hubby had got a job in Toronto as there's more production going on there but who knows...? It wouldn't surprise me if Emily's on the way out. Acting work can take people many places. The other hot spots are Vancouver, and of course L.A. But if they want steady Canadian work, Toronto is still a good place to make their home. This still feels like catastrophizing to me, though I'm not sure why. I thought catastrophizing over Julia leaving the show right after the wedding related to subconscious fear about the effect of the wedding, if not an actual effect of the wedding. But now Emily? The MM cast has been remarkably stable over the years. Julia may have looked like she was leaving on a train, but she didn't. William may have looked like he was leaving the constabulary, but he didn't. Inspector B may have looked like he was dying but he didn't. The only semi-regular cast member to die was Hodge, and he wasn't a lead cast member like Emily. This makes it look like like there is something about being on MM that actors regard as a pleasure and a privilege, worth holding on to. Perhaps with all the idiocy over Lillian, you feel you can't express dislike of her without appearing homophobic and discomfort over that has transformed into covert ways to not only get rid of Lillian, but since the couple is now a "thing", get rid of Emily in the sweep? If so - don't worry, your dislike of Lillian was on the record long before we were treated to the Internet's lowest common denominator! I do expect to see a lot of very cheesy "I'm not homophobic, but..." ideas to get rid of Lillian to bubble up from the cauldron for the remainder of the season, tough. I'm counting on them to be just as dumb as the fact that the people who state them probably ARE homophobic, though. I'm committed to Team Lillian, though - she would have to take the brick and personally conk Julia over the head with it, and spit and swear on Julia's grave afterward, for me to start regard her as "the enemy". For now, though, since I'm on her Team, I will continue to interpret her Flawed behavior, just as I would for Inspector B, William, Julia, or even Emily. *waves pirate flag of Team Lillian* |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 21:56:20 GMT
Ok I don't know what button I did to include Snacky and Hodge's conversation in my reply. Sorry about that!
|
|
|
|
Post by lizmc on Feb 19, 2015 22:08:24 GMT
Acting work can take people many places. The other hot spots are Vancouver, and of course L.A. But if they want steady Canadian work, Toronto is still a good place to make their home. This still feels like catastrophizing to me, though I'm not sure why. I thought catastrophizing over Julia leaving the show right after the wedding related to subconscious fear about the effect of the wedding, if not an actual effect of the wedding. But now Emily? The MM cast has been remarkably stable over the years. Julia may have looked like she was leaving on a train, but she didn't. William may have looked like he was leaving the constabulary, but he didn't. Inspector B may have looked like he was dying but he didn't. The only semi-regular cast member to die was Hodge, and he wasn't a lead cast member like Emily. This makes it look like like there is something about being on MM that actors regard as a pleasure and a privilege, worth holding on to. Perhaps with all the idiocy over Lillian, you feel you can't express dislike of her without appearing homophobic and discomfort over that has transformed into covert ways to not only get rid of Lillian, but since the couple is now a "thing", get rid of Emily in the sweep? If so - don't worry, your dislike of Lillian was on the record long before we were treated to the Internet's lowest common denominator! I do expect to see a lot of very cheesy "I'm not homophobic, but..." ideas to get rid of Lillian to bubble up from the cauldron for the remainder of the season, tough. I'm counting on them to be just as dumb as the fact that the people who state them probably ARE homophobic, though. I'm committed to Team Lillian, though - she would have to take the brick and personally conk Julia over the head with it, and spit and swear on Julia's grave afterward, for me to start regard her as "the enemy". For now, though, since I'm on her Team, I will continue to interpret her Flawed behavior, just as I would for Inspector B, William, Julia, or even Emily. *waves pirate flag of Team Lillian* I'll be honest snacky, I haven't even read to the bottom of your post because it's so ludicrous! If you knew me you'd know there's no-one less homophobic than me, I'm also quite happy expressing my opinion whether people like it or not. I have long time friends that are gay and lesbian. Before moving here my landladies were a married couple that I lunched with regularly. I go to dog shows, probably 75% of the men are gay and a good portion of the women if I was homophobic I would have quit long ago but here I am 25 years later. I couldn't care less what category people belong to and I believe I'm on record here saying everyone has it in them if they meet the right person. Which is what I think happened to Emily. My reasons for not liking Lillian Moss have nothing to do with her sexual orientation, I saw that right from the start and was gung ho for Emily to explore a relationship with her. What I DO NOT like about Lillian is her attitude towards anyone that doesn't appear to agree with her let alone strongly disagree. She makes assumptions about people without any knowledge of them and thinks her way is the only way. She won't take advice from people that have been though tougher times than she where women are concerned. Apparently she was in an engineering programme at university. How did she get on that? Julia struggled to get on a medical programme which would be considered much more appropriate for a woman at that time and yet she dismisses Julia because she's appears too conventional. Once again she doesn't know Julia and what she had to go through to get where she is now both professionally and personally but she disses her as 'selling out' because she decided to marry a MAN. I might also add that I don't think Lillian Moss is 'out to do harm' as some people think, she's just a misguided woman with a grudge against society. Very well, put, Hodge. I also don't like Lillian, for the very reasons you've given. She strikes me as a zealot who ends up doing their cause more harm than good because of their abrasive attitude and complete tunnel vision. If she were alive today, she'd probably be an in-your-face animal rights activist who'd drive you to ordering a steak and buying a fur hat at the first opportunity.......and none of that has anything to do with her sexuality.....Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing where the writers take Emily's stories over the last few episodes.....
Cheers
|
|
I don't get why you felt the need to exonerate me though. Did what I said at any point come across as homophobic?
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT