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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 17, 2014 16:10:34 GMT
Since I'm rewatching season 2 right now, and I'm currently on The Green Muse, I just can't help but wonder if the show meant to imply that William and Ettie have quite the past together. I know book!William did not, but as we know, tv!William and book!William are different characters. Might there have been a fling with her somewhere?
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Post by Hodge on Nov 17, 2014 16:23:32 GMT
Since I'm rewatching season 2 right now, and I'm currently on The Green Muse, I just can't help but wonder if the show meant to imply that William and Ettie have quite the past together. I know book!William did not, but as we know, tv!William and book!William are different characters. Might there have been a fling with her somewhere? The suggestion that TV William and Ettie had a previous relationship links back to the TV movies. However the relationship never really got going even though Ettie really wanted it to as movie William wouldn't cross the line (other than kissing) with a prostitute. TGM has a couple of links to the movies, the first being the suggestion that W&E had a relationship and the other being the murder of Alice Black (Duff in the movie) and William's rescue of Ettie from Alice's murderer. I happened to watch two of the movies again yesterday. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 17, 2014 16:35:14 GMT
Since I'm rewatching season 2 right now, and I'm currently on The Green Muse, I just can't help but wonder if the show meant to imply that William and Ettie have quite the past together. I know book!William did not, but as we know, tv!William and book!William are different characters. Might there have been a fling with her somewhere? The suggestion that TV William and Ettie had a previous relationship links back to the TV movies. However the relationship never really got going even though Ettie really wanted it to as movie William wouldn't cross the line (other than kissing) with a prostitute. TGM has a couple of links to the movies, the first being the suggestion that W&E had a relationship and the other being the murder of Alice Black (Duff in the movie) and William's rescue of Ettie from Alice's murderer. I happened to watch two of the movies again yesterday. I finally found the movies on Netflix, and the first one is due any day now, so I can't compare. But it seems to me that the show is really laying it on rather thick that those two have a romantic past. Was it that heavy in the movies in your opinion? |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 17, 2014 16:41:20 GMT
The suggestion that TV William and Ettie had a previous relationship links back to the TV movies. However the relationship never really got going even though Ettie really wanted it to as movie William wouldn't cross the line (other than kissing) with a prostitute. TGM has a couple of links to the movies, the first being the suggestion that W&E had a relationship and the other being the murder of Alice Black (Duff in the movie) and William's rescue of Ettie from Alice's murderer. I happened to watch two of the movies again yesterday. I finally found the movies on Netflix, and the first one is due any day now, so I can't compare. But it seems to me that the show is really laying it on rather thick that those two have a romantic past. Was it that heavy in the movies in your opinion? No it wasn't heavy at all. Ettie wanted a relationship and William was interested but couldn't allow himself because he was a cop. They did kiss, that was it. There was a suggestion from the start that William and Julia were interested in each other but nothing came of that either but not because they didn't want it to. I have to say I really liked Keeley Hawes as Dr. Ogden. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 17, 2014 16:50:40 GMT
Since I'm rewatching season 2 right now, and I'm currently on The Green Muse, I just can't help but wonder if the show meant to imply that William and Ettie have quite the past together. I know book!William did not, but as we know, tv!William and book!William are different characters. Might there have been a fling with her somewhere? Apparently they almost did in the movies. I voted no to physical, but that doesn't mean he didn't think about it. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 17, 2014 16:54:59 GMT
The suggestion that TV William and Ettie had a previous relationship links back to the TV movies. However the relationship never really got going even though Ettie really wanted it to as movie William wouldn't cross the line (other than kissing) with a prostitute. TGM has a couple of links to the movies, the first being the suggestion that W&E had a relationship and the other being the murder of Alice Black (Duff in the movie) and William's rescue of Ettie from Alice's murderer. I happened to watch two of the movies again yesterday. I finally found the movies on Netflix, and the first one is due any day now, so I can't compare. But it seems to me that the show is really laying it on rather thick that those two have a romantic past. Was it that heavy in the movies in your opinion? William's spicy secret past with the Music Academy Madame would make excellent fic, though! And what a secret for Julia to find out! William would have a tough time picking on Julia for anything she's done after that! Naughty Catholic boy... |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 17, 2014 16:55:07 GMT
Since I'm rewatching season 2 right now, and I'm currently on The Green Muse, I just can't help but wonder if the show meant to imply that William and Ettie have quite the past together. I know book!William did not, but as we know, tv!William and book!William are different characters. Might there have been a fling with her somewhere? Apparently they almost did in the movies. I voted no to physical, but that doesn't mean he didn't think about it. In the second movie William dreams about making love to Julia in the morgue. Nothing with Ettie got beyond a kiss. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 17, 2014 17:15:36 GMT
Apparently they almost did in the movies. I voted no to physical, but that doesn't mean he didn't think about it. In the second movie William dreams about making love to Julia in the morgue. Nothing with Ettie got beyond a kiss. I'll be watching the movies carefully to compare his relationship with Ettie to that of TV William and Ettie, but I really think the show wanted to imply that William and Ettie have a romantic past. I don't think it was romantic in the sense that William ever entertained the idea of marrying her, but I'm pretty convinced that they had some fun and that the whole thing meant more to her than it did for William. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 17, 2014 17:16:55 GMT
I finally found the movies on Netflix, and the first one is due any day now, so I can't compare. But it seems to me that the show is really laying it on rather thick that those two have a romantic past. Was it that heavy in the movies in your opinion? William's spicy secret past with the Music Academy Madame would make excellent fic, though! And what a secret for Julia to find out! William would have a tough time picking on Julia for anything she's done after that! Naughty Catholic boy... I think past!William/Ettie fic would be amazing. I've got two other fics going right now-maybe you should try writing it? |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 17, 2014 17:20:00 GMT
In the second movie William dreams about making love to Julia in the morgue. Nothing with Ettie got beyond a kiss. I'll be watching the movies carefully to compare his relationship with Ettie to that of TV William and Ettie, but I really think the show wanted to imply that William and Ettie have a romantic past. I don't think it was romantic in the sense that William ever entertained the idea of marrying her, but I'm pretty convinced that they had some fun and that the whole thing meant more to her than it did for William. It certainly seemed like they were trying to imply that there was more to it than just a kiss. Ettie certainly looked like it meant more to her than it did to William but that's how it was in the movies too. Ettie felt more for William than he did for her but she did have Julia to compete with too, though she didn't know it. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 17, 2014 17:27:37 GMT
I'll be watching the movies carefully to compare his relationship with Ettie to that of TV William and Ettie, but I really think the show wanted to imply that William and Ettie have a romantic past. I don't think it was romantic in the sense that William ever entertained the idea of marrying her, but I'm pretty convinced that they had some fun and that the whole thing meant more to her than it did for William. It certainly seemed like they were trying to imply that there was more to it than just a kiss. Ettie certainly looked like it meant more to her than it did to William but that's how it was in the movies too. Ettie felt more for William than he did for her but she did have Julia to compete with too, though she didn't know it. I think more than anything it's their familiarity with one another-they're very comfortable being in one another's space and there's a shared past there-which seems more than a previous murder case. William's worked on lots of those, and he's not overly familiar with them-there's something very different with how he behaves with Ettie. Like any man of his day, did William make the distinction between girls you had fun with, and girls you married? Ettie in the former, and Julia in the latter? Would this explain his different approach to these women? |
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Post by snacky on Nov 17, 2014 17:29:22 GMT
In the second movie William dreams about making love to Julia in the morgue. Nothing with Ettie got beyond a kiss. I'll be watching the movies carefully to compare his relationship with Ettie to that of TV William and Ettie, but I really think the show wanted to imply that William and Ettie have a romantic past. I don't think it was romantic in the sense that William ever entertained the idea of marrying her, but I'm pretty convinced that they had some fun and that the whole thing meant more to her than it did for William. I agree - they implied very heavily. I'm not sure if it was because they wanted to give the movie fans a sense of closure or if they wanted to create more potential rivalry/tension for Julia. William certainly has a pattern of putting bad girls up on pedestals (the virgin/whore complex?). This is part of why his relationship with Sally Pendrick is so fascinating. William has seen Sally Pendrick posing nude for a male modern art painter. Sally has been casually nude in front of him! William has seen Sally mingling at a bohemian part where there was hookahs, gay artist hook ups, and gosh knows what else going on. This was the opposite of Victorian Morals. When William found "porn" pics of Sally used to support her early career as an aspiring singing girl, he just "respected" her more for it. He's not just reassuring Sally - respect is really the word to use. He respect "bad women" who are passing/covering proper society. I'm not quite sure what these bad women represent to him. It's not lewdness or "dark places" - he would try to cover that up in himself or confess it away. It might have something to do with the way he's mentally transitioning to modern times. I thought he might have given Sally so much "respect" because he originally put her in the same mental "bucket" as Julia - an "extraordinary" woman - sort of like an anomaly breaking the paradigm of "normal science". |
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Post by snacky on Nov 17, 2014 17:30:39 GMT
Like any man of his day, did William make the distinction between girls you had fun with, and girls you married? Ettie in the former, and Julia in the latter? Ouch, poor Ettie! |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 17, 2014 17:37:10 GMT
Like any man of his day, did William make the distinction between girls you had fun with, and girls you married? Ettie in the former, and Julia in the latter? Ouch, poor Ettie! Yeah, watching the episode just now, it's pretty evident that she's way more into him than he is for her. The more I think about it, I just don't think it was an accident that his past met his future, romantically speaking. Ettie represented a wilder past, and Julia a more respectable future. But it's interesting that Julia isn't your typical Victorian ideal of womanhood either...so she's not entirely a madonna either. Maybe she does represent the future where women are quite frankly neither extreme, and all fall somewhere on a continuum in-between. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 17, 2014 18:04:13 GMT
Yeah, watching the episode just now, it's pretty evident that she's way more into him than he is for her. The more I think about it, I just don't think it was an accident that his past met his future, romantically speaking. Ettie represented a wilder past, and Julia a more respectable future. But it's interesting that Julia isn't your typical Victorian ideal of womanhood either...so she's not entirely a madonna either. Maybe she does represent the future where women are quite frankly neither extreme, and all fall somewhere on a continuum in-between. Ettie is certainly more into William than he's into her and I put that down to his job and his religion. It would be improper for him to take a prostitute, now madam, as a lover and that's what Ettie wanted. However I don't think William appreciates totally 'respectable' women. Respectable women are boring, they represent current mores and society and William believes himself to be a man of the future. The women he's attracted to aren't necessarily totally improper or nonconformist but they do have a, for want of a better word, wilder streak. They think for themselves and will do whatever they want but can still blend in to society when they need to. I think this is a bit of a conundrum for William because he'd like a wife and children but I don't think he wants the usual Victorian 'little wife and kids' kind of life. |
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