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Post by lovemondays on Mar 21, 2015 17:22:20 GMT
You know what season 8 Jilliam reminds me of? Julia/Darcy. It's not a perfect parallel, but think about it, they occasionally dine together, share a few laughs and a residence that's not truly a home. In fact, season 8 Julia reminds me of season 5 Julia. Marginalized, and hardly there. At least in season 5, the actress had other projects, but a couple of guest star turns on Heartland don't merit being shoved to the side and forgotten except for token female scenes and fan service scenes. I see your point about the actors not feeling that they're being stretched enough, but that's bad writing. There's plenty of things you could be doing with their characters that could be causing them all sorts of stress and angst, but the show (outside of What Lies Buried) isn't going there for whatever unknown reason. I think you've hit the nail on the head with respect to how this marriage feels to the viewers. The only difference is it made sense that Julia and Darcy were having difficulties and we didn't want them to be married in the first place. William and Julia, on the other hand...let's have just snippets of a loving relationship!! Pleeeeeese??!! The easiest example of how to achieve what I would appreciate happened in "The Incurables". When Julia had her nightmare, William could have pulled her back down and spooned with her while the camera could still focus on the fear in her face. At least we would have some tenderness and concern to satisfy our need that takes nothing away from the timing or intention of the scene plotwise.
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Post by snacky on Mar 21, 2015 19:11:00 GMT
I think you've hit the nail on the head with respect to how this marriage feels to the viewers. The only difference is it made sense that Julia and Darcy were having difficulties and we didn't want them to be married in the first place. William and Julia, on the other hand...let's have just snippets of a loving relationship!! Pleeeeeese??!! The easiest example of how to achieve what I would appreciate happened in "The Incurables". When Julia had her nightmare, William could have pulled her back down and spooned with her while the camera could still focus on the fear in her face. At least we would have some tenderness and concern to satisfy our need that takes nothing away from the timing or intention of the scene plotwise. That was a bad directorial "decision fork" because leaving Julia isolated like that made it seem like she was doing the wrong thing, neglecting the asset she had on hand (a detective for a loving husband) in an almost psychotic way, and would have to be rescued at the end. If William were trying harder to protect here, it would have been a stronger moment to show Julia didn't need that and to watch her liberate herself from that protection.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Mar 22, 2015 1:32:39 GMT
I think you've hit the nail on the head with respect to how this marriage feels to the viewers. The only difference is it made sense that Julia and Darcy were having difficulties and we didn't want them to be married in the first place. William and Julia, on the other hand...let's have just snippets of a loving relationship!! Pleeeeeese??!! The easiest example of how to achieve what I would appreciate happened in "The Incurables". When Julia had her nightmare, William could have pulled her back down and spooned with her while the camera could still focus on the fear in her face. At least we would have some tenderness and concern to satisfy our need that takes nothing away from the timing or intention of the scene plotwise. That was a bad directorial "decision fork" because leaving Julia isolated like that made it seem like she was doing the wrong thing, neglecting the asset she had on hand (a detective for a loving husband) in an almost psychotic way, and would have to be rescued at the end. If William were trying harder to protect here, it would have been a stronger moment to show Julia didn't need that and to watch her liberate herself from that protection. But it's the little things like Julia not needing his comfort or his assistance are what seem off to us. No, she's no damsel in distress, but she's being targeted by Eva Pearce because of her husband-does she not think William isn't going to want to do something about that? Is that not going to be upsetting to her and does she not need some reassurance and comforting? No, instead we get an explanation that Julia is a strong woman and doesn't need her husband comforting her. Which makes no sense to me...that's not weakness, that's humanity. In related news, I've mentioned before that my 85 y/o step-grandmother watches TAD on Ovation. She just saw Murdoch Takes Manhattan, and she was annoyed that W/J kept getting interrupted and that there wasn't much romance. Two thoughts: 1.) She ships Jilliam. Awesome! (I knew she watched, but I didn't know she was shipping!) 2.) I didn't have the heart to tell her that it doesn't get better (she knows I'm ahead of her episode wise). She also recently broke her hip, and just got home from the Rehab Center-she's upset that she missed not only the wedding, but the first few episodes of season 8. I set my parents up with Acorn for their Murdoch viewing pleasure, but that's not going to work for her. I need to think of a way to get her those eps on dvd somehow-unless if anyone can tell me how often Ovation is showing reruns of season 8 already, or if there are hints as to when they'll begin. I'm trying to make her recovery as pleasant as possible...
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Post by Hodge on Mar 22, 2015 1:35:54 GMT
That was a bad directorial "decision fork" because leaving Julia isolated like that made it seem like she was doing the wrong thing, neglecting the asset she had on hand (a detective for a loving husband) in an almost psychotic way, and would have to be rescued at the end. If William were trying harder to protect here, it would have been a stronger moment to show Julia didn't need that and to watch her liberate herself from that protection. But it's the little things like Julia not needing his comfort or his assistance are what seem off to us. No, she's no damsel in distress, but she's being targeted by Eva Pearce because of her husband-does she not think William isn't going to want to do something about that? Is that not going to be upsetting to her and does she not need some reassurance and comforting? No, instead we get an explanation that Julia is a strong woman and doesn't need her husband comforting her. Which makes no sense to me...that's not weakness, that's humanity. In related news, I've mentioned before that my 85 y/o step-grandmother watches TAD on Ovation. She just saw Murdoch Takes Manhattan, and she was annoyed that W/J kept getting interrupted and that there wasn't much romance. Two thoughts: 1.) She ships Jilliam. Awesome! (I knew she watched, but I didn't know she was shipping!) 2.) I didn't have the heart to tell her that it doesn't get better (she knows I'm ahead of her episode wise). She also recently broke her hip, and just got home from the Rehab Center-she's upset that she missed not only the wedding, but the first few episodes of season 8. I set my parents up with Acorn for their Murdoch viewing pleasure, but that's not going to work for her. I need to think of a way to get her those eps on dvd somehow-unless if anyone can tell me how often Ovation is showing reruns of season 8 already, or if there are hints as to when they'll begin. I'm trying to make her recovery as pleasant as possible... I take it she doesn' have access to a computer to get them on YouTube.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Mar 22, 2015 2:47:16 GMT
But it's the little things like Julia not needing his comfort or his assistance are what seem off to us. No, she's no damsel in distress, but she's being targeted by Eva Pearce because of her husband-does she not think William isn't going to want to do something about that? Is that not going to be upsetting to her and does she not need some reassurance and comforting? No, instead we get an explanation that Julia is a strong woman and doesn't need her husband comforting her. Which makes no sense to me...that's not weakness, that's humanity. In related news, I've mentioned before that my 85 y/o step-grandmother watches TAD on Ovation. She just saw Murdoch Takes Manhattan, and she was annoyed that W/J kept getting interrupted and that there wasn't much romance. Two thoughts: 1.) She ships Jilliam. Awesome! (I knew she watched, but I didn't know she was shipping!) 2.) I didn't have the heart to tell her that it doesn't get better (she knows I'm ahead of her episode wise). She also recently broke her hip, and just got home from the Rehab Center-she's upset that she missed not only the wedding, but the first few episodes of season 8. I set my parents up with Acorn for their Murdoch viewing pleasure, but that's not going to work for her. I need to think of a way to get her those eps on dvd somehow-unless if anyone can tell me how often Ovation is showing reruns of season 8 already, or if there are hints as to when they'll begin. I'm trying to make her recovery as pleasant as possible... I take it she doesn' have access to a computer to get them on YouTube. Unfortunately no. I'll have to be creative.
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Post by carco on Mar 22, 2015 22:45:35 GMT
When Murdoch Mysteries was in Cambridge to shoot the wedding last summer, apparently Miss Hamilton was a stow-away and stayed in town. She's alive and well and is now a city councilor. There's a big 'thing" going on in the old city core with regards to "busking". A young lady was ticketed for singing outside a store in downtown Galt/Cambridge so there's a push on now at City Hall to cover it under a by-law. But one councilor (who I suspect is the reincarnated Miss Hamilton), stated (and I quote from the local newspaper): “Busking is a very good thing to have, but there could be some negatives,” she said.
***** is concerned some people might use busking as a cover for aggressive soliciting. “The prostitutes that are downtown could start singing,” she said."Seriously, if you ever saw the downtown core (other than the lovely spots they manage to film in MM) you'd know that singing dollymops would be an improvement!!!! Julia please comeback! someone in town needs to be clothes-lined again!!
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Post by carco on Mar 22, 2015 22:49:25 GMT
And by the way, when did I become a GOD? !!!! Cool
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 23:37:23 GMT
When Murdoch Mysteries was in Cambridge to shoot the wedding last summer, apparently Miss Hamilton was a stow-away and stayed in town. She's alive and well and is now a city councilor. There's a big 'thing" going on in the old city core with regards to "busking". A young lady was ticketed for singing outside a store in downtown Galt/Cambridge so there's a push on now at City Hall to cover it under a by-law. But one councilor (who I suspect is the reincarnated Miss Hamilton), stated (and I quote from the local newspaper): “Busking is a very good thing to have, but there could be some negatives,” she said.
***** is concerned some people might use busking as a cover for aggressive soliciting. “The prostitutes that are downtown could start singing,” she said."Seriously, if you ever saw the downtown core (other than the lovely spots they manage to film in MM) you'd know that singing dollymops would be an improvement!!!! Julia please comeback! someone in town needs to be clothes-lined again!! It seems Miss (Mrs.?) Hamilton exists in Ajax as well. We had a big kerfuffle this winter about a skating rink in someone's front yard. It even made the news and The Toronto Star. The parents just wanted to have a rink for the kids to play on, but apparently some neighbour complained and it turns out the boards used to hold the ice in qualify as a "structure", which is against the bylaws. The Station House 4 gentlemen should have come along for a game of shinny.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2015 23:38:01 GMT
And by the way, when did I become a GOD? !!!! Cool Congtatulations !!! I seem to be approaching that milestone myself...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2015 1:21:34 GMT
You know what season 8 Jilliam reminds me of? Julia/Darcy. It's not a perfect parallel, but think about it, they occasionally dine together, share a few laughs and a residence that's not truly a home. In fact, season 8 Julia reminds me of season 5 Julia. Marginalized, and hardly there. At least in season 5, the actress had other projects, but a couple of guest star turns on Heartland don't merit being shoved to the side and forgotten except for token female scenes and fan service scenes. I see your point about the actors not feeling that they're being stretched enough, but that's bad writing. There's plenty of things you could be doing with their characters that could be causing them all sorts of stress and angst, but the show (outside of What Lies Buried) isn't going there for whatever unknown reason. I think you've hit the nail on the head with respect to how this marriage feels to the viewers. The only difference is it made sense that Julia and Darcy were having difficulties and we didn't want them to be married in the first place. William and Julia, on the other hand...let's have just snippets of a loving relationship!! Pleeeeeese??!! The easiest example of how to achieve what I would appreciate happened in "The Incurables". When Julia had her nightmare, William could have pulled her back down and spooned with her while the camera could still focus on the fear in her face. At least we would have some tenderness and concern to satisfy our need that takes nothing away from the timing or intention of the scene plotwise. Another missed opportunity: in High Voltage, at breakfast, they could have had William come to the breakfast table, give his lovely wife a kiss and a shoulder squeeze, and then sit down. I for one, would have swooned at that!
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Post by Hodge on Mar 23, 2015 1:32:08 GMT
I think you've hit the nail on the head with respect to how this marriage feels to the viewers. The only difference is it made sense that Julia and Darcy were having difficulties and we didn't want them to be married in the first place. William and Julia, on the other hand...let's have just snippets of a loving relationship!! Pleeeeeese??!! The easiest example of how to achieve what I would appreciate happened in "The Incurables". When Julia had her nightmare, William could have pulled her back down and spooned with her while the camera could still focus on the fear in her face. At least we would have some tenderness and concern to satisfy our need that takes nothing away from the timing or intention of the scene plotwise. Another missed opportunity: in High Voltage, at breakfast, they could have had William come to the breakfast table, give his lovely wife a kiss and a shoulder squeeze, and then sit down. I for one, would have swooned at that! There have been a lot of missed opportunities but I suspect they weren't missed so much as ignored. It seems they've moved on to George and Edna for romance. Whilst they're cute they will never replace the OTP. I wouldn't care if they never showed anyone else in a ship again except W/J.
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Post by Hodge on Mar 23, 2015 1:34:27 GMT
From PM on fb this evening:
I thought this season has had murder, laughter and romance. Murder every week. A marriage, an illicit affair, a possible proposal, a whoopee cushion, a car chase, etc...
I think he's missed the point!
Actually, I think he's deliberately missed the point!!
Time for us to start demanding absolutely NO Jilliam as he thinks the writers shouldn't give fans what they want.
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2015 5:32:31 GMT
From PM on fb this evening: I thought this season has had murder, laughter and romance. Murder every week. A marriage, an illicit affair, a possible proposal, a whoopee cushion, a car chase, etc... I think he's missed the point! Actually, I think he's deliberately missed the point!! Time for us to start demanding absolutely NO Jilliam as he thinks the writers shouldn't give fans what they want. Well, he's the showrunner and responsible for the outcome of the final product. Of course he's going to make excuses if people aren't responding as expected - and just the fact he's bothering to make a statement means people aren't responding as expected. His philosophy about ignoring fan demands is the correct one if he wants to keep the show surprising an interesting week after week. What he lacked was a good arc "overview" from a shipper perspective. I think in the past they've tried hard to avoid arcs at all for the sake of the syndication market (so various stations could shuffle the order as needed and new viewers could drop in at any point). But there is definitely some viewer expectations that come when characters get married that have some arc implementations - such as signs they are married.
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2015 5:44:26 GMT
There have been a lot of missed opportunities but I suspect they weren't missed so much as ignored. It seems they've moved on to George and Edna for romance. Whilst they're cute they will never replace the OTP. I wouldn't care if they never showed anyone else in a ship again except W/J. Yeah, they are trying so hard with that. I still submit that even if people will approve of this or that ship with George, that relationship will not draw the same sort of "shipper" fandom. A) George is not the protagonist of the show. B) George has been the comic relief of the show, and that role doesn't mesh with the idea of a romantic lead. Perhaps this has something to do with Jungian archetypes, but I just can't see it. But - you might say - what about "romantic comedies"? Well, Murdoch Mysteries isn't a comedy, so the viewer imagination isn't in that "world" when watching it. Therefore, no matter how much viewers might agree with whatever pairing George is currently in, they will not want the show to focus on it. They are watching Murdoch Mysteries. They want to watch William Murdoch solving mysteries. The chief character development is his. Even in Jilliam, Julia gets second billing because it isn't "Julia Ogden Mysteries". If the writers think they need to transfer viewer allegiance on to another fresh "ship", they are seriously lacking imagination. They just wasted an entire season of post-honeymoon romance/tensions with the ship they already have! Perhaps they should take their own rap about "breaking the marriage curse" seriously and focus on the relationship that established viewers came to watch.
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2015 5:48:19 GMT
Another missed opportunity: in High Voltage, at breakfast, they could have had William come to the breakfast table, give his lovely wife a kiss and a shoulder squeeze, and then sit down. I for one, would have swooned at that! I was fine with the tea scene. Now that you said it, though, I'm almost wondering if it's supposed to become a running joke that William's still a virgin *within* marriage. It was really weird how George just walked into their domestic scene, though!
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