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Post by Hodge on Dec 17, 2014 20:27:46 GMT
I lost some sympathy for him in the course of how he pursued his relationship with Enid, and he's not good with kids (Alwyn) at all. On the other hand, his relationship with the Kitchens' is very sweet, so I think my impression was just soured by where I left off reading. Over all, those books just left me feeling grungy. That's probably the mark of good history, but perhaps I need some good historical fantasy right now - so I will take TV!William's clean collars, white teeth, and propriety in any weather. Interesting to see that she seduced him first...and while he was kinda using her as his mistress while he was deciding whether or not he wanted to marry her, she does tell him from the beginning that she's not sure she can reciprocate his feelings, putting the seeds of doubt in his head. So, it appears that she had her doubts as well-she didn't know whether or not she wanted a booty call or a husband-definitely vacillating.
Also, Alwyn was a sniveling mama's boy who Enid made clear would always come before William-not the most attractive of propositions for anyone. William tried to get the boy to like him, but Alwyn wasn't interested in sharing mama. It wouldn't have been a happy marriage, and that's what William wanted-he wanted a lover and confidante/not just a housewife. That is a similarity between the books and tv shows/William does want to come home and share all the details of his day with his lady-something both William's recognize Enid would never do. Enid would be the perfect traditional housewife-Julia/Amy are "life partners" if you get the distinction. This is an excellent summary of the William/Enid relationship. I wasn't sure if I liked book Enid any more than I did show Enid but I definitely didn't like book Alwyn though I did like show Alwyn, surprising as I'm not a kid person any more. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 17, 2014 20:40:10 GMT
Interesting to see that she seduced him first...and while he was kinda using her as his mistress while he was deciding whether or not he wanted to marry her, she does tell him from the beginning that she's not sure she can reciprocate his feelings, putting the seeds of doubt in his head. So, it appears that she had her doubts as well-she didn't know whether or not she wanted a booty call or a husband-definitely vacillating.
Also, Alwyn was a sniveling mama's boy who Enid made clear would always come before William-not the most attractive of propositions for anyone. William tried to get the boy to like him, but Alwyn wasn't interested in sharing mama. It wouldn't have been a happy marriage, and that's what William wanted-he wanted a lover and confidante/not just a housewife. That is a similarity between the books and tv shows/William does want to come home and share all the details of his day with his lady-something both William's recognize Enid would never do. Enid would be the perfect traditional housewife-Julia/Amy are "life partners" if you get the distinction. This is an excellent summary of the William/Enid relationship. I wasn't sure if I liked book Enid any more than I did show Enid but I definitely didn't like book Alwyn though I did like show Alwyn, surprising as I'm not a kid person any more. Yeah, book Alwyn is not likeable. TV Alwyn is meant to represent what William must have been like as a kid-curious and precocious. Enid in both versions represents the traditional wife-both Williams reject that in favor of a more modern partnership. Also interesting to note that Liza was no Enid either-she was very much a Julia in many aspects! |
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Post by snacky on Dec 17, 2014 21:41:53 GMT
This is an excellent summary of the William/Enid relationship. I wasn't sure if I liked book Enid any more than I did show Enid but I definitely didn't like book Alwyn though I did like show Alwyn, surprising as I'm not a kid person any more. I didn't like William's behavior toward Alwyn, either, though. I particularly remember William getting all snippity about playing a game by exact rules instead of however Alwyn wanted to play it. He had no sensitivity at all for children. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 17, 2014 22:04:25 GMT
This is an excellent summary of the William/Enid relationship. I wasn't sure if I liked book Enid any more than I did show Enid but I definitely didn't like book Alwyn though I did like show Alwyn, surprising as I'm not a kid person any more. I didn't like William's behavior toward Alwyn, either, though. I particularly remember William getting all snippity about playing a game by exact rules instead of however Alwyn wanted to play it. He had no sensitivity at all for children. Alwyn was cheating and changing the rules as he went! William was debating whether he should just play along, or give him a taste of the real world and call him out on his behavior. He really just doesn't care for Alwyn's sniveling mama's boy behavior-it's most unmanly and is ill-preparing him for life as an adult. He doesn't coddle children because he himself was never coddled-he doesn't know how to do it, and I think ultimately, this is what turns him off Enid-who is raising a son who will be a simpering ne'er do well. But, he does care for plenty of children and one of the reasons he doesn't have much money is because he's constantly giving it away to poor kids and their parents-something tv!William doesn't do. There are plenty of other instances where he is kind to children, and cares about their well-being-such as with Agnes and Ben in Night's Child. He's not enamored with book Alwyn because as DeskSgtHodge said, he's not likeable. TVAlwyn is. |
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Post by Hodge on Dec 17, 2014 23:27:05 GMT
I didn't like William's behavior toward Alwyn, either, though. I particularly remember William getting all snippity about playing a game by exact rules instead of however Alwyn wanted to play it. He had no sensitivity at all for children. Alwyn was cheating and changing the rules as he went! William was debating whether he should just play along, or give him a taste of the real world and call him out on his behavior. He really just doesn't care for Alwyn's sniveling mama's boy behavior-it's most unmanly and is ill-preparing him for life as an adult. He doesn't coddle children because he himself was never coddled-he doesn't know how to do it, and I think ultimately, this is what turns him off Enid-who is raising a son who will be a simpering ne'er do well. But, he does care for plenty of children and one of the reasons he doesn't have much money is because he's constantly giving it away to poor kids and their parents-something tv!William doesn't do. There are plenty of other instances where he is kind to children, and cares about their well-being-such as with Agnes and Ben in Night's Child. He's not enamored with book Alwyn because as DeskSgtHodge said, he's not likeable. TVAlwyn is. William's good with the street kids and the kids in Night's Child but Alwyn is not only snivelly but a competitor for Enid's affections and William doesn't stand a chance with him around. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 18, 2014 0:44:35 GMT
Alwyn was cheating and changing the rules as he went! William was debating whether he should just play along, or give him a taste of the real world and call him out on his behavior. He really just doesn't care for Alwyn's sniveling mama's boy behavior-it's most unmanly and is ill-preparing him for life as an adult. He doesn't coddle children because he himself was never coddled-he doesn't know how to do it, and I think ultimately, this is what turns him off Enid-who is raising a son who will be a simpering ne'er do well. But, he does care for plenty of children and one of the reasons he doesn't have much money is because he's constantly giving it away to poor kids and their parents-something tv!William doesn't do. There are plenty of other instances where he is kind to children, and cares about their well-being-such as with Agnes and Ben in Night's Child. He's not enamored with book Alwyn because as DeskSgtHodge said, he's not likeable. TVAlwyn is. William's good with the street kids and the kids in Night's Child but Alwyn is not only snivelly but a competitor for Enid's affections and William doesn't stand a chance with him around. Well said. He was quite enamored with her until Alwyn started deliberately interjecting himself between the two of them (he didn't want to share mama) and Enid would drop William like a hot potato for Alwyn every time. Book William (as much as TV William) wanted a partner-not a housekeeper with sexual benefits. Both Williams end up with partners/equals.  |
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Post by Hodge on Dec 18, 2014 1:41:17 GMT
William's good with the street kids and the kids in Night's Child but Alwyn is not only snivelly but a competitor for Enid's affections and William doesn't stand a chance with him around. Well said. He was quite enamored with her until Alwyn started deliberately interjecting himself between the two of them (he didn't want to share mama) and Enid would drop William like a hot potato for Alwyn every time. Book William (as much as TV William) wanted a partner-not a housekeeper with sexual benefits. Both Williams end up with partners/equals. Yes, I liked Amy and you can see where show Julia came from between her and book Julia. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 18, 2014 2:14:24 GMT
Well said. He was quite enamored with her until Alwyn started deliberately interjecting himself between the two of them (he didn't want to share mama) and Enid would drop William like a hot potato for Alwyn every time. Book William (as much as TV William) wanted a partner-not a housekeeper with sexual benefits. Both Williams end up with partners/equals. Yes, I liked Amy and you can see where show Julia came from between her and book Julia. Absolutely-as well as book Liza. She was no shrinking violet, and the book portrays her loss in a way that was a real tragedy for William-she wasn't going to be a meek submissive housewife either-and William loved that about her. TV Julia is an amalgamation of book Julia, book Liza, and Amy. I quite like Amy as well-her counter proposal is very similar to TV Julia's. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 19, 2014 21:36:52 GMT
So I finally finished all of the books, and it was interesting to see the about face Brackenreid did in the last novel-he started to become more like the Brax we know and love and less like CC Stockton. Also, William finally gets everything he always wanted and cries tears of happiness! Awww!
All in all, would I have liked these books as much without having seen the television show? Probably not-the William's aren't completely different from one another, but it's grittier, less charming. Yet, I do feel I have a better understanding of who William is as a character now.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2015 16:21:41 GMT
I have just reread one of my favourites: Night's Child. This is the book where Murdoch meets Amy Slade. She describes herself as 'Unorthodox", but she really means "forward thinking" and, almost in spite of himself, Murdoch finds himself very intrigued by her. He is still in a relationship with Enid at this point, so he experiences guilt and confusion about his feelings.
One of my favourite parts is when Amy insists on helping out Murdoch and Constable Seymour as they knock on doors asking questions. At first he is really reluctant to allow her to do this, but she is persistent. It reminds me of when Emily insisted on helping George in Murdoch on the Corner (?). And it is certainly a precursor of Julia's involvement with William's cases in the tv. series.
There is also a funny scene, showing his boyish side, where Murdoch comes across a lumber yard, and just for the heck of it, jumps the fences and starts running across the wet logs,(it always seems to be raining or snowing in the books). He is recreating a game they used to play in lumber camp with logs on water. When the watchman catches him, he quickly jumps the fence with a remark about a quick inspection.
i just re-watched MOTC and it is not the episode where Emily helps George by talking to people on the street. Dang now that is going to bother me until I figure it out!
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Post by snacky on Mar 17, 2015 20:09:54 GMT
I have just reread one of my favourites: Night's Child. This is the book where Murdoch meets Amy Slade. She describes herself as 'Unorthodox", but she really means "forward thinking" and, almost in spite of himself, Murdoch finds himself very intrigued by her. He is still in a relationship with Enid at this point, so he experiences guilt and confusion about his feelings. One of my favourite parts is when Amy insists on helping out Murdoch and Constable Seymour as they knock on doors asking questions. At first he is really reluctant to allow her to do this, but she is persistent. It reminds me of when Emily insisted on helping George in Murdoch on the Corner (?). And it is certainly a precursor of Julia's involvement with William's cases in the tv. series. There is also a funny scene, showing his boyish side, where Murdoch comes across a lumber yard, and just for the heck of it, jumps the fences and starts running across the wet logs,(it always seems to be raining or snowing in the books). He is recreating a game they used to play in lumber camp with logs on water. When the watchman catches him, he quickly jumps the fence with a remark about a quick inspection. Hey no fair - the books get lumberjack William!  |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 17, 2015 20:54:10 GMT
I have just reread one of my favourites: Night's Child. This is the book where Murdoch meets Amy Slade. She describes herself as 'Unorthodox", but she really means "forward thinking" and, almost in spite of himself, Murdoch finds himself very intrigued by her. He is still in a relationship with Enid at this point, so he experiences guilt and confusion about his feelings. One of my favourite parts is when Amy insists on helping out Murdoch and Constable Seymour as they knock on doors asking questions. At first he is really reluctant to allow her to do this, but she is persistent. It reminds me of when Emily insisted on helping George in Murdoch on the Corner (?). And it is certainly a precursor of Julia's involvement with William's cases in the tv. series. There is also a funny scene, showing his boyish side, where Murdoch comes across a lumber yard, and just for the heck of it, jumps the fences and starts running across the wet logs,(it always seems to be raining or snowing in the books). He is recreating a game they used to play in lumber camp with logs on water. When the watchman catches him, he quickly jumps the fence with a remark about a quick inspection. Hey no fair - the books get lumberjack William! Yep and in one of them he even chops wood!  I don't see book William as sexy William though.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2015 0:31:33 GMT
Yeah book William is kind of hapless. He is kind and smart and humble. Sexy does not come to mind.
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Post by Hodge on Mar 18, 2015 1:58:57 GMT
Yeah book William is kind of hapless. He is kind and smart and humble. Sexy does not come to mind. Certainly not with his smelly sealskin coat and Astrakan hat! |
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Post by snacky on Mar 18, 2015 7:28:23 GMT
Hey no fair - the books get lumberjack William! Yep and in one of them he even chops wood! I don't see book William as sexy William though. Yeah that's one of the reasons I couldn't get into the book. But Yannick worked as a lumberjack for an episode of Nothing Too Good for a Cowboy - and was in a boxing match in that same episode! So you can use that as an imaginary substitute.  |
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I don't see book William as sexy William though. 
