lilac
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Post by lilac on Feb 19, 2015 0:27:28 GMT
I'm re-watching This One Goes to Eleven for the first time in a while, where we are introduced to the Pendricks and I never noticed how gullible and naive Murdoch was.
He was entirely too trusting of Sally and the art expert in obvious ways and it makes no sense that James Pendrick would have enough knowledge or know how to pull off that type of scheme. Everything connected back to Sally before they even suspected Lightman was shipping the paintings to Paris. She had art know how, frequented the same places as the criminals, befriended them, quizzed Murdoch on art history facts and suggested James visit art venues. James frequently tells Murdoch that art isn't his passion and only cares because Sally cares, expresses how relieved she will because of the Rembrandt's return and talks about how knowledgeable and integrated she is into the art scene. He's an inventor plain and simple and even if there was the motive of wanting his insurance money, Murdoch should have at least suspected that the Pendricks were a team.
Simply put there's only two reasons why Murdoch ignores the obvious clues: he wants to bed Sally and he wants to be right and go for the easiest suspect. Murdoch usually approaches cases with the mindset that everyone's guilty until proven innocent but it seemed like in this episode, he barely tried at all to be objective and looked to two 'experts' with strong motives for help when all the while they were leading him in the wrong directions.
He just seemed to act like Brax in this episode, looking for the easiest subject and not thinking critically and easily swayed by compliments
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Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 8:49:20 GMT
He was entirely too trusting of Sally and the art expert in obvious ways and it makes no sense that James Pendrick would have enough knowledge or know how to pull off that type of scheme. Everything connected back to Sally before they even suspected Lightman was shipping the paintings to Paris. She had art know how, frequented the same places as the criminals, befriended them, quizzed Murdoch on art history facts and suggested James visit art venues. James frequently tells Murdoch that art isn't his passion and only cares because Sally cares, expresses how relieved she will because of the Rembrandt's return and talks about how knowledgeable and integrated she is into the art scene. He's an inventor plain and simple and even if there was the motive of wanting his insurance money, Murdoch should have at least suspected that the Pendricks were a team. Simply put there's only two reasons why Murdoch ignores the obvious clues: he wants to bed Sally and he wants to be right and go for the easiest suspect. Murdoch usually approaches cases with the mindset that everyone's guilty until proven innocent but it seemed like in this episode, he barely tried at all to be objective and looked to two 'experts' with strong motives for help when all the while they were leading him in the wrong directions. William wasn't so much seduced by Sally's sexual wiles as he was seduced by the vision of the future that the Pendricks had to offer him. However, then sexual politics came into play. William has a tendency to want to champion intelligent, independent women fighting the tide of "the world". In a way he might even identify with them. I think he may have over-identified with James Pendrick, though. The minute he started to suspect him, he probably felt betrayed by him. There was Inventor Hero who had everything and could do so much more, yet he was sabotaged by mere human greed So the Pendricks did play around with William's Freudian/Jungian psychology - even his sexual psychology - but I don't think it was on the crass level of letting the desire to sleep with Sally subvert his investigation. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 19, 2015 10:31:44 GMT
He was entirely too trusting of Sally and the art expert in obvious ways and it makes no sense that James Pendrick would have enough knowledge or know how to pull off that type of scheme. Everything connected back to Sally before they even suspected Lightman was shipping the paintings to Paris. She had art know how, frequented the same places as the criminals, befriended them, quizzed Murdoch on art history facts and suggested James visit art venues. James frequently tells Murdoch that art isn't his passion and only cares because Sally cares, expresses how relieved she will because of the Rembrandt's return and talks about how knowledgeable and integrated she is into the art scene. He's an inventor plain and simple and even if there was the motive of wanting his insurance money, Murdoch should have at least suspected that the Pendricks were a team. Simply put there's only two reasons why Murdoch ignores the obvious clues: he wants to bed Sally and he wants to be right and go for the easiest suspect. Murdoch usually approaches cases with the mindset that everyone's guilty until proven innocent but it seemed like in this episode, he barely tried at all to be objective and looked to two 'experts' with strong motives for help when all the while they were leading him in the wrong directions. William wasn't so much seduced by Sally's sexual wiles as he was seduced by the vision of the future that the Pendricks had to offer him. However, then sexual politics came into play. William has a tendency to want to champion intelligent, independent women fighting the tide of "the world". In a way he might even identify with them. I think he may have over-identified with James Pendrick, though. The minute he started to suspect him, he probably felt betrayed by him. There was Inventor Hero who had everything and could do so much more, yet he was sabotaged by mere human greed So the Pendricks did play around with William's Freudian/Jungian psychology - even his sexual psychology - but I don't think it was on the crass level of letting the desire to sleep with Sally subvert his investigation. I agree with Lilac that subconsciously, he did want to bed Sally. She subconsciously invaded his desires in much the same way that Eva Pearce did-to the point where he may have missed Julia's hints that he had better commit or else...so she left. I think season 3 William takes Julia for granted, and that with Sally, he wasn't thinking with the big head if you catch my drift. By the time Eva Pearce effs with him, he's aware that his desire and lust for beautiful and brainy ladies is subconsciously undermining him. I think Julia's aware of this foible as well. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 11:56:00 GMT
I agree with Lilac that subconsciously, he did want to bed Sally. She subconsciously invaded his desires in much the same way that Eva Pearce did-to the point where he may have missed Julia's hints that he had better commit or else...so she left. I think season 3 William takes Julia for granted, and that with Sally, he wasn't thinking with the big head if you catch my drift. By the time Eva Pearce effs with him, he's aware that his desire and lust for beautiful and brainy ladies is subconsciously undermining him. I think Julia's aware of this foible as well. hmm, okay I can go with "subconsciously invaded his desires". But that goes with the Freudian/Jungian stuff as well, which is where I think most of this belongs.  |
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lilac
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Posts: 24
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Post by lilac on Feb 19, 2015 12:06:26 GMT
William wasn't so much seduced by Sally's sexual wiles as he was seduced by the vision of the future that the Pendricks had to offer him. However, then sexual politics came into play. William has a tendency to want to champion intelligent, independent women fighting the tide of "the world". In a way he might even identify with them. I think he may have over-identified with James Pendrick, though. The minute he started to suspect him, he probably felt betrayed by him. There was Inventor Hero who had everything and could do so much more, yet he was sabotaged by mere human greed So the Pendricks did play around with William's Freudian/Jungian psychology - even his sexual psychology - but I don't think it was on the crass level of letting the desire to sleep with Sally subvert his investigation. I agree with Lilac that subconsciously, he did want to bed Sally. She subconsciously invaded his desires in much the same way that Eva Pearce did-to the point where he may have missed Julia's hints that he had better commit or else...so she left. I think season 3 William takes Julia for granted, and that with Sally, he wasn't thinking with the big head if you catch my drift. By the time Eva Pearce effs with him, he's aware that his desire and lust for beautiful and brainy ladies is subconsciously undermining him. I think Julia's aware of this foible as well. I just think about how Murdoch hopelessly tried to pretend Sally hadn't given him a nude portrait of her. He was in such awe of her, how free spirited and worldly she was, how cultured and intelligent she was that he missed key clues and if anything underestimated her as if she couldn't possibly be a suspect. Early William loved the idea of being a saviour to women he thought were being subdued by men. By the time Eva shows up he is aware of his fatal flaw but only because Julia tells him straight. I really can't believe William would think it would be okay to have an albeit abstract nude portrait of a married woman on his office wall, seeing how prudish he generally is. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 19, 2015 13:44:26 GMT
I agree with Lilac that subconsciously, he did want to bed Sally. She subconsciously invaded his desires in much the same way that Eva Pearce did-to the point where he may have missed Julia's hints that he had better commit or else...so she left. I think season 3 William takes Julia for granted, and that with Sally, he wasn't thinking with the big head if you catch my drift. By the time Eva Pearce effs with him, he's aware that his desire and lust for beautiful and brainy ladies is subconsciously undermining him. I think Julia's aware of this foible as well. I just think about how Murdoch hopelessly tried to pretend Sally hadn't given him a nude portrait of her. He was in such awe of her, how free spirited and worldly she was, how cultured and intelligent she was that he missed key clues and if anything underestimated her as if she couldn't possibly be a suspect. Early William loved the idea of being a saviour to women he thought were being subdued by men. By the time Eva shows up he is aware of his fatal flaw but only because Julia tells him straight. I really can't believe William would think it would be okay to have an albeit abstract nude portrait of a married woman on his office wall, seeing how prudish he generally is. Like I said, he wasn't thinking with his brain!  He absolutely desired her-but didn't fully acknowledge or realize it. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 17:27:18 GMT
I just think about how Murdoch hopelessly tried to pretend Sally hadn't given him a nude portrait of her. He was in such awe of her, how free spirited and worldly she was, how cultured and intelligent she was that he missed key clues and if anything underestimated her as if she couldn't possibly be a suspect. Early William loved the idea of being a saviour to women he thought were being subdued by men. By the time Eva shows up he is aware of his fatal flaw but only because Julia tells him straight. I really can't believe William would think it would be okay to have an albeit abstract nude portrait of a married woman on his office wall, seeing how prudish he generally is. I think William was fascinated with that modernity allowed so much freedom in general, and that freedom included the female body. Then, being male, he indulged in the subtle hypocrisy of having a Playboy centerfold up on his wall. But then Julia caught him. Oops. I do agree that part of William wants to champion and save women: it's in all the mythology and stories of "manhood" of his youth, and it's in all the images of his religion. Every fallen woman is Mary Magdalen to him. However, note William in Victor/Victorian, he (ruefully) admits that Julia does not need rescuing. And if he tries to rescue her, he will undermine her bid for independence and respect in the professional world. Those are modern qualities in a woman. If William is going to embrace modernity and love Julia, he's going to have to love a woman that doesn't need rescuing. William is more conflicted than prudish. If you read our enormous "Perv" thread, we have many examples where William has let his interests in Teh Ladies peek out from under that neutral bureaucratic pose. In the case of the portrait, it seems like he thought he genuinely could present it as a jumble of geometric shapes - or at least a "landscape" to everyone else: and only he would know its "secret meaning". As soon as it was obvious other people saw a naked woman, he got rid of it. But there was also the "art exception". William had no problem looking at the naked woman in the Rembrandt. He was much less salacious about it than George and Henry. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 19, 2015 19:17:20 GMT
I just think about how Murdoch hopelessly tried to pretend Sally hadn't given him a nude portrait of her. He was in such awe of her, how free spirited and worldly she was, how cultured and intelligent she was that he missed key clues and if anything underestimated her as if she couldn't possibly be a suspect. Early William loved the idea of being a saviour to women he thought were being subdued by men. By the time Eva shows up he is aware of his fatal flaw but only because Julia tells him straight. I really can't believe William would think it would be okay to have an albeit abstract nude portrait of a married woman on his office wall, seeing how prudish he generally is. I do believe he wouldn't have taken it if he'd had the choice and he did take the first opportunity he could to give it back to her.... |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 19, 2015 19:24:35 GMT
William is more conflicted than prudish. If you read our enormous "Perv" thread, we have many examples where William has let his interests in Teh Ladies peek out from under that neutral bureaucratic pose. In the case of the portrait, it seems like he thought he genuinely could present it as a jumble of geometric shapes - or at least a "landscape" to everyone else: and only he would know its "secret meaning". As soon as it was obvious other people saw a naked woman, he got rid of it. But there was also the "art exception". William had no problem looking at the naked woman in the Rembrandt. He was much less salacious about it than George and Henry. William didn't personally know the lady in the Rembrandt and he hadn't personally seen her in the flesh! I suspect some of his problem with the painting was that he had seen the person it depicted. Luckily Julia didn't know that he'd seen Sally Pendrick naked and didn't necessarily know it depicted her. |
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Post by lizmc on Feb 19, 2015 21:57:19 GMT
Yes, William wasn't really in a position to refuse to take the painting of Sally and seemed to cringe everytime he looked at it....I think we were seeing that old fashioned Canadian politeness at play there....my favourite bit was Brackenreid's description of the Rembrandt...."Some bare arsed floosy having her feet washed....".....I'm glad when he took up painting, he stuck to landscapes....
Cheers
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 21:41:39 GMT
Yes, William wasn't really in a position to refuse to take the painting of Sally and seemed to cringe everytime he looked at it....I think we were seeing that old fashioned Canadian politeness at play there....my favourite bit was Brackenreid's description of the Rembrandt...."Some bare arsed floosy having her feet washed....".....I'm glad when he took up painting, he stuck to landscapes.... Cheers OMG what a funny image that gave me: Brax painting nudes! Totally out there I know, but hilarious!! And Margaret's reaction: even funnier! |
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Post by snacky on Feb 21, 2015 21:44:58 GMT
Yes, William wasn't really in a position to refuse to take the painting of Sally and seemed to cringe everytime he looked at it....I think we were seeing that old fashioned Canadian politeness at play there....my favourite bit was Brackenreid's description of the Rembrandt...."Some bare arsed floosy having her feet washed....".....I'm glad when he took up painting, he stuck to landscapes.... Cheers OMG what a funny image that gave me: Brax painting nudes! Totally out there I know, but hilarious!! And Margaret's reaction: even funnier! Funny, but slightly out of character since the Inspector had an appreciation for the theater and later took up being a painter himself. He had a secret a appreciation of high culture! I wonder if his "landscapes" had any secret mountain formations in them? heh, heh.  I keep meaning to do a tally on art in MM. Did lovemondays already do that in her spreadsheet? |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 21, 2015 21:51:28 GMT
OMG what a funny image that gave me: Brax painting nudes! Totally out there I know, but hilarious!! And Margaret's reaction: even funnier! Funny, but slightly out of character since the Inspector had an appreciation for the theater and later took up being a painter himself. He had a secret a appreciation of high culture! I wonder if his "landscapes" had any secret mountain formations in them? heh, heh. I keep meaning to do a tally on art in MM. Did lovemondays already do that in her spreadsheet? I don't believe she did. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2015 22:04:07 GMT
OMG what a funny image that gave me: Brax painting nudes! Totally out there I know, but hilarious!! And Margaret's reaction: even funnier! Funny, but slightly out of character since the Inspector had an appreciation for the theater and later took up being a painter himself. He had a secret a appreciation of high culture! I wonder if his "landscapes" had any secret mountain formations in them? heh, heh. I keep meaning to do a tally on art in MM. Did lovemondays already do that in her spreadsheet? Did you Lovemondays? Painting landscapes may be just a step towards other art, such as portraits. I have to admit that in my dabbling I really suck at doing people. I would much rather do objects, even animals. So I think doing portraits and nudes would be a real step up. Sally's nude was just a bit too abstract for my taste. I found that whole side story really funny because of William's sheepishness. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 22, 2015 2:47:31 GMT
Funny, but slightly out of character since the Inspector had an appreciation for the theater and later took up being a painter himself. He had a secret a appreciation of high culture! I wonder if his "landscapes" had any secret mountain formations in them? heh, heh. I keep meaning to do a tally on art in MM. Did lovemondays already do that in her spreadsheet? Did you Lovemondays? Painting landscapes may be just a step towards other art, such as portraits. I have to admit that in my dabbling I really suck at doing people. I would much rather do objects, even animals. So I think doing portraits and nudes would be a real step up. Sally's nude was just a bit too abstract for my taste. I found that whole side story really funny because of William's sheepishness. In my own art wanderings I've noticed people really do split along those lines: people painters and landscape/object painters. It's rare to get someone who enjoys both equally well. |
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He absolutely desired her-but didn't fully acknowledge or realize it. 
