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Post by Lucy on Sept 3, 2009 10:52:47 GMT
Original air date - 3rd March 2009
Det. Murdoch investigates the murder of Cora Devereaux, a prostitute, in a posh bordello. She had only been working there for about six months when she was garroted. Madame Ettie Wilson said that she had to remove a particularly obsessed customer, Arthur Webster, who is a well-known artist. Dr. Ogden discovers, during the autopsy, that Cora had been drinking absinthe and that she has no defensive wounds. Suspect falls on a prominent judge, as well as the artist, he admits that he woke in the dead lady's room only to find her dead.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 17, 2014 16:18:10 GMT
Anyone else find that the show really heavily implied that William and Ettie have a romantic past? I just don't think it was coincidental that the show that officially launches his relationship with Julia bring up a woman from his past. Was Ettie from his wilder, more unfocused past, and Julia from his future?
I just think the show really lays it on rather thick that William and Ettie were involved, more so than at any other time. What say you?
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 17, 2014 17:58:16 GMT
Soon many different kinds of feels for this episode!
I'm really starting to think this show is the dividing line between William's past and his future. His past where he had fun with girls like Ettie, and where he recognized his future with a girl like Julia!
So much to gush about (besides the hawt!almost sex between W/J).
William immediately sets the tone by kissing Ettie's hand as though she were someone he were close to (in front of George, no less), and immediately assumes a familiarity there that definitely makes Julia jealous.
There's that line at the beginning as they're coming down the stairs where she tells him that she advises her girls on matters of the heart-and she pauses, turns and looks rather longingly at him when she says it. That’s not accidental.
When he asks her if it was possible that the suspect snuck in, and she again pauses and looks at him, is she referring to romantic feelings-she didn’t want to have them for him, but did? He quickly gets uncomfortable and tries to leave, before she snags him
In fact, it seems every interaction between the two is quite loaded, and carries multiple meanings. I could go on and on.
Furthermore, when the judge asks him “Have you ever been in love?”, and William says yes-who do you think he’s thinking about-or is it more than one?
But by the end, I think she’s guessed that he’s very much taken, and there will be no rekindling their relationship. At least William looks a little guilty for having completely and finally ended things between them.
Argh, there’s so much going on in this episode with how it hints at William’s past. Most view it as the ep where W/J almost get freaky, and it is a pretty hot scene, but do reduce this ep to that scene alone misses so much awesomeness.
Definitely one of my favorite MM eps for a myriad of reasons, and it might be my favorite overall.
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Nov 17, 2014 19:45:00 GMT
Soon many different kinds of feels for this episode! I'm really starting to think this show is the dividing line between William's past and his future. His past where he had fun with girls like Ettie, and where he recognized his future with a girl like Julia! So much to gush about (besides the hawt!almost sex between W/J). William immediately sets the tone by kissing Ettie's hand as though she were someone he were close to (in front of George, no less), and immediately assumes a familiarity there that definitely makes Julia jealous. There's that line at the beginning as they're coming down the stairs where she tells him that she advises her girls on matters of the heart-and she pauses, turns and looks rather longingly at him when she says it. That’s not accidental. When he asks her if it was possible that the suspect snuck in, and she again pauses and looks at him, is she referring to romantic feelings-she didn’t want to have them for him, but did? He quickly gets uncomfortable and tries to leave, before she snags him In fact, it seems every interaction between the two is quite loaded, and carries multiple meanings. I could go on and on. Furthermore, when the judge asks him “Have you ever been in love?”, and William says yes-who do you think he’s thinking about-or is it more than one? But by the end, I think she’s guessed that he’s very much taken, and there will be no rekindling their relationship. At least William looks a little guilty for having completely and finally ended things between them. Argh, there’s so much going on in this episode with how it hints at William’s past. Most view it as the ep where W/J almost get freaky, and it is a pretty hot scene, but do reduce this ep to that scene alone misses so much awesomeness. Definitely one of my favorite MM eps for a myriad of reasons, and it might be my favorite overall. Besides the Jilliam stuff, I don't particularly care for this episode. It's definitely NOT one of my faves from S2. This probably has a lot to do with me not liking Ettie and them bringing in stuff from the tv movies which I also didn't like. So basically all the reasons you love it, I hated it. :/ However, that's more of my mind set from years ago when I didn't like Murdoch having eyes for anyone else but Julia, and now that I'm less of a brat, I should give it another go. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 18, 2014 12:19:45 GMT
Soon many different kinds of feels for this episode! I'm really starting to think this show is the dividing line between William's past and his future. His past where he had fun with girls like Ettie, and where he recognized his future with a girl like Julia! So much to gush about (besides the hawt!almost sex between W/J). William immediately sets the tone by kissing Ettie's hand as though she were someone he were close to (in front of George, no less), and immediately assumes a familiarity there that definitely makes Julia jealous. There's that line at the beginning as they're coming down the stairs where she tells him that she advises her girls on matters of the heart-and she pauses, turns and looks rather longingly at him when she says it. That’s not accidental. When he asks her if it was possible that the suspect snuck in, and she again pauses and looks at him, is she referring to romantic feelings-she didn’t want to have them for him, but did? He quickly gets uncomfortable and tries to leave, before she snags him In fact, it seems every interaction between the two is quite loaded, and carries multiple meanings. I could go on and on. Furthermore, when the judge asks him “Have you ever been in love?”, and William says yes-who do you think he’s thinking about-or is it more than one? But by the end, I think she’s guessed that he’s very much taken, and there will be no rekindling their relationship. At least William looks a little guilty for having completely and finally ended things between them. Argh, there’s so much going on in this episode with how it hints at William’s past. Most view it as the ep where W/J almost get freaky, and it is a pretty hot scene, but do reduce this ep to that scene alone misses so much awesomeness. Definitely one of my favorite MM eps for a myriad of reasons, and it might be my favorite overall. Besides the Jilliam stuff, I don't particularly care for this episode. It's definitely NOT one of my faves from S2. This probably has a lot to do with me not liking Ettie and them bringing in stuff from the tv movies which I also didn't like. So basically all the reasons you love it, I hated it. :/ However, that's more of my mind set from years ago when I didn't like Murdoch having eyes for anyone else but Julia, and now that I'm less of a brat, I should give it another go. Look at it again from a William character development perspective-it's quite enlightening. This is where I wished they had some kind of episode commentary on these shows, because I would eat that up! Also, it's okay, while there's some very strongly implied Ettie/William past, she's never a threat to Julia. If anything, it seems to push William into finally acting where Julia is concerned. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 18, 2014 18:54:38 GMT
while there's some very strongly implied Ettie/William past, she's never a threat to Julia. If anything, it seems to push William into finally acting where Julia is concerned. Yes, I think this scene was to allow William to declare his relationship with Julia to the audience without declaring it directly to Julia. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jan 7, 2015 13:36:06 GMT
Okay, now that I have seen all the movies (and read all the books), this episode makes a lot more sense to me. More than any other episode of MM, I think this one builds off of the movies, and William and Ettie's relationship makes more sense when you accept it as a continuation of the movies. William and Ettie had feelings for each other, but they were never going to work out as a couple, and I think it's no coincidence that the show that officially launches his relationship with Julia also closes the door on the one he had with Ettie.
Also, in context of the movie, I'm willing to bet that William and Ettie were lovers (briefly)-if you want.
This episode (more than any other) piggybacks on the movies-whereas with the other episodes, you can say that they're completely the unrelated from the movies.
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Post by Hodge on Jan 7, 2015 18:45:23 GMT
Okay, now that I have seen all the movies (and read all the books), this episode makes a lot more sense to me. More than any other episode of MM, I think this one builds off of the movies, and William and Ettie's relationship makes more sense when you accept it as a continuation of the movies. William and Ettie had feelings for each other, but they were never going to work out as a couple, and I think it's no coincidence that the show that officially launches his relationship with Julia also closes the door on the one he had with Ettie. Also, in context of the movie, I'm willing to bet that William and Ettie were lovers (briefly)-if you want. This episode (more than any other) piggybacks on the movies-whereas with the other episodes, you can say that they're completely the unrelated from the movies. After seeing the movies this episode makes much more sense and will be lost on anyone that hasn't seen them. Whilst it's obvious that William and Ettie have a past it seems (in the show) like it would be more than it actually was. I don't believe they were lovers even though Ettie wanted to. William was attracted to her however I suspect it was purely physical and he wouldn't allow himself because he was a cop also he did have the hots for Julia and she wasn't a complication for his job. This is also somewhat of a follow on from Elementary, My Dear Murdoch where Liza releases William and tells him to rejoin the living, allowing him to pursue Julia. In TGM the judge tells him he never let a day go by without telling Cora he loved her and I think that pushes William to finally declare his feelings for Julia. |
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Post by snacky on Jan 7, 2015 23:52:56 GMT
I haven't seen the movies, but someone mentioned that there are dancing lessons in them - and Julia is the partner. How can there be continuity with that?
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jan 8, 2015 4:27:55 GMT
I haven't seen the movies, but someone mentioned that there are dancing lessons in them - and Julia is the partner. How can there be continuity with that? In the books, William goes to dancing school to meet women-he's very lonely and desperate for a feminine touch in his life. That's pretty much the reason he's there in the movies as well. However, at the end of the first movie, William invites Julia (their first date?) to dancing school and there's a cute scene between the two of them that I discussed in the movie section. But, that's the only time Julia goes to dancing school with him. The movies are adaptations of the books, and the movies seem to be somewhere between the books and the show. In Power, William and Julia's picnic makes more sense if you accept that the show is a continuation of the movies, but for the most part, the movies are separate from the show-with the exception of TGM. IMO, this is the only episode that seems to build off of the movies. As as far as the books, the only episode that is an adaptation of one of the books is "Let Loose the Dogs". Can anyone think of another? |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jun 21, 2015 13:34:34 GMT
Does anyone know where Ettie's brothel may have been, or care to hazard a guess? What? No reason. I'm not asking for fic purposes at all.
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Post by lizmc on Jun 21, 2015 16:21:57 GMT
Does anyone know where Ettie's brothel may have been, or care to hazard a guess? What? No reason. I'm not asking for fic purposes at all.Since it seemed to be a high class operation and its cliental were affluent and influential, my guess would be it was near Jarvis Street at the Rosedale end......at the time Jarvis was a very wealthy street, with large mansions, some of which still stand, and Rosedale has always been one of the wealthiest neighbourhoods in Canada. |
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Post by Hodge on Jun 21, 2015 16:46:20 GMT
Does anyone know where Ettie's brothel may have been, or care to hazard a guess? What? No reason. I'm not asking for fic purposes at all.Since it seemed to be a high class operation and its cliental were affluent and influential, my guess would be it was near Jarvis Street at the Rosedale end......at the time Jarvis was a very wealthy street, with large mansions, some of which still stand, and Rosedale has always been one of the wealthiest neighbourhoods in Canada. It would still have to be far enough south to be in SH4's district though. Whilst they go outside their area to investigate the crime still has to have taken place within the area covered by the station house. I would have thought the northerly part of Jarvis would be outside. Not sure if there's a map that covers the station houses beats. I'm surprised how little discussion there is on this episode. |
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Post by lizmc on Jun 21, 2015 20:23:05 GMT
Since it seemed to be a high class operation and its cliental were affluent and influential, my guess would be it was near Jarvis Street at the Rosedale end......at the time Jarvis was a very wealthy street, with large mansions, some of which still stand, and Rosedale has always been one of the wealthiest neighbourhoods in Canada. It would still have to be far enough south to be in SH4's district though. Whilst they go outside their area to investigate the crime still has to have taken place within the area covered by the station house. I would have thought the northerly part of Jarvis would be outside. Not sure if there's a map that covers the station houses beats. I'm surprised how little discussion there is on this episode. I believe Station House 4's territory did go that far north, though......they were near Dundas and Parliament and if their area was equally distributed, since they went south to the Waterfront, they'd go north of Bloor and since some of the episodes have taken place in large genteel houses, I'd guess they were in Rosedale. Here is a map of what 51 Division covers today: www.torontopolice.on.ca/d51/neighbourhoods.php
I'm sure there has been some realignment, but this is probably pretty close.....
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Post by lizmc on Jun 25, 2015 21:35:14 GMT
This one is being shown on the CBC tonight.......interesting that the actor who played the judge's slimy son is Matthew Edison, who is a distant relative of Thomas Edison......
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