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Post by murdochic on Mar 20, 2012 23:02:26 GMT
I don't remember there being three or more in one series. When one of those doesn't include Julia. Tonight they were obviously trying to build George/Grace into the new W/J. Only they have no chemistry. I honestly don't know what the writers are thinking. Why not just let W/J be a couple and stop all this back and forth, it's becoming tedious now. There's only so long viewers will put up with it before they start getting annoyed, and five series of it is too much. The same can be said in bringing Anna back three times, it feels like the writers are going in circles. They can not continue this into S6. I wish the others could just be like Brackenreid, and leave the romance at the door. If W/J were a couple they could get rid of the will-they-won't-they and people wouldn't keep bringing the subject up so much on here and elsewhere  and we could all concerntrate on the storyline of the week. Which is so far being overshadowed by the writers stunts this series IMO. Even tonight was overshadowed a bit for me because they were clearly trying to sell George/Grace as the next W/J, which made me roll my eyes during their scenes. I'd like the old team back, it worked before. Of course keep Higgins as I think him and George are an adorable combo. I just feel they are deliberately trying to make this series different, and it's not working so great. |
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Post by randomkiwibirds on Mar 20, 2012 23:45:26 GMT
I would like to see Jasper back again. He was pretty epic XD
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Post by hannikan on Mar 21, 2012 1:23:27 GMT
I don't remember there being three or more in one series. When one of those doesn't include Julia. There have been. There was Fannie Robinson (the boxer's wife that William was attracted to) and Sarah Pensall in S1. In S2, there was Ruby Ogden, Enid Jones, Ettie Weston. In S3 there was Anna Fulford, Ruby Ogden (who flirted with William until she turned her affections toward George about halfway through Future Imperfect), and Sally Pendrick. In S4 there was Anna and Arlene Dennett (the student who kept throwing herself at William). |
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Post by murdochic on Mar 21, 2012 2:53:36 GMT
Ruby doesn't count IMO. So that makes two at most each series, there will be at least three this series. Yes, there is more. And it's more often. It's good if you're enjoying this series, but for me it's below par and this is part of the reason. Julia being awol and Grace being shoved in her place are other reasons. The new writers this series are making their mark and not in good ways. It's like because at time of writing it this was believed to be the last series they thought they could experiment, and not try as hard. It shows, and I only hope they bring back the older writers for S6.
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Post by hannikan on Mar 21, 2012 5:17:13 GMT
Ruby definitely counts. She threw herself at William in S2. And she continued to flirt and try to gain his attention in the beginning of Future Imperfect in S3. I do agree that something is missing without Julia and I don't find that Dr. Grace is being used well. She is being sort of shoe-horned in. There was no build up to her sudden fascination with George in War on Terror. George had more chemistry with the other women they wrote opposite him (Edna Garrison, Ruby, Tess). I think the actors are trying to create chemistry but the way the characters have been written to interact hasn't given them much to work with. It hasn't been built over time enough. I'll put my other thoughts in the episode thread.
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Post by murdochic on Mar 21, 2012 11:43:59 GMT
Ruby still doesn't count for me. She was a flirt in general, and liked annoying her sister. She was never really interested in William IMO. It's just part of her personality. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree about her ;D
I like Grace well enough but she is blatantly a Julia substitute, and not really a character in her own right. I can't see her lasting into S6. Once Julia is back in the morgue she'll be gone. As for why they think they need a mini-me W/J is beyond me. IA that George had so much more chemistry with Ruby and Tess, they should bring one of them back if they want him to have a romance. Both they started and just dropped for no reason. I think maybe G/G from last night was because William wasn't given a love interest of the week, and Julia wasn't around so they thought they had to give some kind of romance in the episode. The writers seem to be a bit clueless this series. Maybe it was the new writers getting into pace, hopefully things improve from now on.
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Post by hannikan on Mar 21, 2012 21:56:11 GMT
Yeah, I definitely think she had a crush on William until she was convinced that Julia loved him. But she did flirt with everyone, too. I don't think George and Emily are a sufficient replacement for William in Julia's interaction in the morgue either. I would guess that the actress who played Ruby wasn't available for filming in S5 and that's why she's not back. I read that she had been offered a lot more work lately and has been doing stuff in the U.S. It's too bad though. George deserves to have a better developed romance. I've wanted his personal life to be focused on more but this hasn't been a satisfying way to do it.
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Post by petunia on Mar 21, 2012 23:37:15 GMT
The only episode of S5 I like so far was Back and to the Left. It was good. It was not at the same level of Snakes and Ladders of S2, but probably at the same level of Wild Wild West.
What I find disapointing in S5 is how the main characters are portrayed. When a new show starts, it's always full of cliches, MM was not the exception: the brilliant detective, the funny sidekick, the gruff police inspector and the token female character. Over the course of the episodes the characters develop and eventually we no longer see the cliches, but the characters. I though MM did that brilliantly in Season 1. By the third or fourth episode, the cliches had disapeared for me. Guess what? They are now back with a vengence!!! In S5, William, George and Tom are caricatures of themselves, and Julia is not even there. Our remaining three characters have had no character development this season.
The two real characters (Jack London and Emma Gold) did not fit in well in the storyline of their episode. Telsa and Arthur Conan Doyle (both introduced by episode 4 of season 1) fitted much better than London and Gold did this year. Someone who did not know better could very well believe that S5 is a brand new show, because it has the awkwarness of a new show.
With a third of the season gone, I am still waiting for season five to start!!!
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Post by kaybee on Mar 23, 2012 5:19:12 GMT
Having read the sentiments of MM fans on this and other boards, I have come to the conclusion that if the writers tried to satisfy everyone at once this would be one confusing show! I was accustomed to the William/Julia camp versus the William/Anna camp versus the Wiliam/anybody-but-Julia camp, but now the varying opinions of season 5 are mind boggling! There are those who feel a spark is missing, and those that don't; there are those who are enjoying the season a lot while others can't stand it.
Personally I think it's far too soon to say. Granted, the first three seasons got off to quicker starts (I.e. more popular starts) but I think season 5 is off to at least as good a start as season 4. And while each season had an early episode I didn't care for, each had early episodes I enjoyed. Overall I would have to say I like season 5 better so far than season 4, and that's despite missing Julia for two episodes and knowing she won't be in the next two either!
I definitelydon't agree that the male characters are lacking in development - I thought Brackenreid has shown an increasing respect and concern for his men, making him less sterotypical and George has had major involvement the past two weeks.
Were the mysteries less complicated? Perhaps. I still enjoy the show a lot and am still addicted to it. Hopefully those who are disappointed so far will be happy with the season as it continues!
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Post by murdochic on Mar 23, 2012 13:49:53 GMT
I haven't actually really enjoyed any of the episodes so far this series. That is what is upsetting me. Even the two episiodes Julia was in I didn't think were that good. I don't know if it's because Julia and William scenes being mostly absent so it's effected the spark of the show. Or if it's because the characters aren't getting any depth so far this series. Or just the quality of writing isn't as good as past seasons. Maybe it's a combo of the above. I do know it's not all solely down to the lack of W/J, that's just a big part of the reason for me. As for there being W/A shippers? Seriously?  . They are so snoozeworthy together. Everytime she's in it she has to keep realising she's second best to Julia and always will be. Her being the consolation prize it not the stuff dream romances are made of. I really don't understand people wanting those two together. I could understand if you didn't want William with Julia, as not everyone will like them. But wanting him with Anna is a strange shipping choice in my mind. Each to their own I guess. Though even if W/J are over for good I could never want him with Anna, they just don't work romantically, they've tried twice already. I'd either want him single, or a new love interest brought in who could be on a equal level with Julia. |
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Post by hannikan on Mar 23, 2012 22:01:33 GMT
There are a lot of William and Anna fans actually. They are mostly British fans, which makes sense, but also some who just feel Julia is responsible for all the problems William and Julia have had. Personally, I feel they have both made mistakes that have gotten them where they are. The other thing some William and Anna fans think is that William and Julia can't ever be together because of the Class Divide. I don't agree because Julia doesn't care about social class. In fact, if anything she would want to tear down that barrier. Some have said that it would be historically inaccurate to show them married. I don't think it would be. It wouldn't have been common to cross the Class Divide in love, and even less so to marry across it, but it did happen. It's certainly no more unlikely than a Catholic police detective or a female coroner working for the police dept would have been. There are also those who think William and Julia shouldn't/couldn't be together because of their religious differences. Again, it wouldn't have been common or easy but they are both unique individuals with very strong wills and love for each other. Their different perspectives do cause tensions between them sometimes but all relationships have tensions. Some people actually find William and Julia boring together, which I don't see. I don't think Anna and William are boring together but I do think they aren't as interesting together as William and Julia. They do have chemistry and the actors clearly get along well. I have no problem seeing William court Anna for a short time but I don't think they will ultimately stay together. Anna is a fun character so I will like seeing her again but I also don't think she will survive for too long. The Black Hand will hunt her down.
I've noticed that none of 3 male characters have interacted with one another much this season. There hasn't been enough Thomas/William, George/William and Thomas/George time for me. I think that's a major thing that's missing for me. I agree that S4 had a slow start, too. I actually think the 1st 4 S5 episodes (maybe with the exception of ep 2) reminds me of Buffalo Shuffle. The William/Julia stuff in that one was good but the case was kind of dull/predictable/lacking the usual interesting qualities. I'm still enjoying the show but something is missing. The dash of salt is missing.
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Post by petunia on Mar 23, 2012 23:49:49 GMT
My problem with Anna as William's love interest is how impossible it would be to merge her character into the show. Once the black hand storyline is concluded, why would there be any reasons to see Anna? Should Anna and William become a couple, would we have to suffer through each episode's concluding scene be William go home to Anna and play happy family... Borring!!!! The Julia/William relationship gives the writers more potential for storyline as they not only have to interact at home (should they become a couple again) and also at work.
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Post by hannikan on Mar 24, 2012 0:12:40 GMT
Well, I suppose they could have Anna hang around the station house a lot. Make herself a bit of a pest even. She is spunky and clever enough to take an interest in his work (a bit like Enid but less buttoned up). But you're right, it's not like she could really do work there. She's not like Ruby who could be interviewing police while working on a story. As a sidenote, I would love to see Ruby incorporated as a regular character. I guess Anna could become a secretary nearby and they could lunch together. Yeah, not very exciting. And it's much more likely that if Anna and William married, they would want to have children quickly and she would be at home pregnant or with children. I guess the W/A fans want his work life to be very separate from his home life. So William and Julia would still have a working relationship but no romance.
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Post by murdochic on Mar 24, 2012 15:01:57 GMT
I'm British and I never like W/A together As for who's to blame for the problems W/J have had, actually I would say William is 70% to blame. It mostly always him who keeps putting his principles, morals and at times self righteousness above letting him and Julia be happy. It was his wanting bio kids that broke them up in S3, it was his divering in early S4 that left Julia still dating Darcy. It was his need to be the hero that allowed him to not tell Julia how he really felt so she married Darcy. Julia shouldn't have married Darcy so most of her 30% of blame for me comes from that. For me the biggest obstacle in the W/J has always been William and his inability to let his emotions flow freely. Julia has tried harder than him to get over their issues, and she has never had a problem with the class divide. I think I must be watching a different show from the W/A shippers. William acted exactly like this with the prostitute love interest in the Murdoch tv movies before the series started. Julia was always there to be a friend and love him. As for it not being historically accurate, what a load of rubbish. Julia marrying William wouldn't be a problem with anyone but the snobs in her family, who Julia would never listen too. If Julia hadn't been a working woman and one of the few female doctors of the time, then yes I would see it wouldn't be realistic. But Julia is not a society dame, and yes those kind of women did marry a different class. It's not as uncommon as some people are trying to make out. And do the apply the same reasoning to George/Emily, I bet they don't. As for the religious differences, they have always gotten over them. And I don't see how it's a problem for him to marry Julia when he was romancing a prositute in the Murdoch movies, and Anna isn't exactly miss innocent either. She was a barmaid, so she isn't uber religious and pious. So how do they think that matches up with William's beliefs? You have seen William time and again reconcile his beliefs with reality, and this would be no different. He has become more open-minded and modern as the series have gone on. The people using these excuses are being unrealistic to what did happen in history and what could happen with W/J. And considering W/J have been the main love story from the tv movies till now, I really don't believe William will end the show with anyone but her. He will either be single or with Julia, they didn't keep this romance going for that many years to just drop it for S6. They already foreshadowed in ep 2 that Julia's marriage will fail because she settled for Darcy. I would be surprised if W/J aren't back to some kind of romance by the time this series ends. And I would be surprised if Julia is still married by the time it ends. |
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Post by murdochic on Mar 24, 2012 15:08:37 GMT
William and Anna won't marry IMO. I don't believe we'll be seeing her again after ep 8. There's no spoilers saying she's around after that. As usual she'll probably have to leave, and she'll realise William isn't over Julia. It will be the same old merry-go-round it was in S3 and S4. Which is why I find them so boring together. If it didn't work the first two times, it's not going to ever work.
Anna doesn't fit on the show, there's a reason you don't see Brackenreid's wife, barely see Darcy (infact not once yet in S5), and why George never gets a real love interest. The characters have no place on the show. The only reason W/J worked through 3 tv movies, and 5-6 series is because Julia is intergrated into the show, the storylines and the character relationships. Even Emily is sticking out like a sore thumb because though she works at the morgue she isn't really intergrated into the show the way Julia was. It's why I believe she'll also be gone by the end of S5. I can't see Emily, Darcy or Anna making it into episodes during S6. They are plot devices and nothing more.
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and we could all concerntrate on the storyline of the week. Which is so far being overshadowed by the writers stunts this series IMO. Even tonight was overshadowed a bit for me because they were clearly trying to sell George/Grace as the next W/J, which made me roll my eyes during their scenes.
. They are so snoozeworthy together. Everytime she's in it she has to keep realising she's second best to Julia and always will be. Her being the consolation prize it not the stuff dream romances are made of. I really don't understand people wanting those two together. I could understand if you didn't want William with Julia, as not everyone will like them. But wanting him with Anna is a strange shipping choice in my mind. Each to their own I guess. Though even if W/J are over for good I could never want him with Anna, they just don't work romantically, they've tried twice already. I'd either want him single, or a new love interest brought in who could be on a equal level with Julia.