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Post by snacky on May 29, 2014 2:33:32 GMT
A gang arc could encompass not only the docks, but also trade unionization and turf wars. Are those gang books a whole series? My science background is limited to a lifelong interest in biology and a few university courses in anatomy and nutrition. What is really funny to me is that PE was the only course I disliked more than history in high school. Just another thing to love about MM. Wm or Julia gets interested in something and off we all go reading up! It looks like the author wrote another one about gangs in Chicago: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_AsburyThese books are not what you expect from the movie Gangs of New York: they are actually closer to Murdoch Mysteries. Pretty light in spirit, though of course violence and mayhem does occur. Its something to the effect of: "...and then then this guy died in a bar fight and that floozy opened her own saloon." The fact MM prompts me to read about stuff without the show itself getting weighed down in too much exposition is one of the reasons I love it. A tesla effect is worth a thousand words.  |
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Post by ziggy on May 30, 2014 22:58:42 GMT
I was searching Toronto history for 1902 and found that there was a massive fire on July 10th at the P. MacIntosh Feed Co. Five firefighters were killed in two separate wall collapses. The building was previously owned by the Toronto Street Railway Company as a stable that was still packed with hay and other flammable materials. The alarm was first sounded by a policeman walking his beat who saw the flames. A bylaw was waved to allow the burials to occur on a Sunday. I could see George calling that in and Murdoch investigating until he reaches the conclusion that it was a tragic accident. Snacky already noted that Enrico Caruso made a record and several wonderful classical works were also recorded for Julia to play on her gramophone. |
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Post by ziggy on May 30, 2014 23:00:52 GMT
I was searching Toronto history for 1902 and found that there was a massive fire on July 10th at the P. MacIntosh Feed Co. Five firefighters were killed in two separate wall collapses. The building was previously owned by the Toronto Street Railway Company as a stable that was still packed with hay and other flammable materials. The alarm was first sounded by a policeman walking his beat who saw the flames. A bylaw was waved to allow the burials to occur on a Sunday. I could see George calling that in and Murdoch investigating until he reaches the conclusion that it was a tragic accident. Snacky already noted that Enrico Caruso made a record and several wonderful classical works were also recorded for Julia to play on her gramophone. Oops! I did it again (with the quote button). Good find. Interesting. I actually thought that perhaps the Police department could do something with the Fire department this season. I’d love to see the firemen in uniform. This incident would have been a big deal in Toronto at the time. I like the MM fire wagon too. I think it’s cool although they may need more than one. This one will hardly put out the fire in Brackenreid let alone the blazing inferno that would have occurred to have caused the wall collapse. |
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Post by lovemondays on May 31, 2014 1:26:53 GMT
It was a huge deal. It was the greatest loss of life in the history of the Toronto Fire Dept. All 5 men were Orangemen and their joint funeral (the first funeral ever allowed on a Sunday) was so large that tickets were required to get into the Cathedral. I see potential there for more discussion about Toronto being a "Protestant City".
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Post by snacky on May 31, 2014 1:49:34 GMT
I was searching Toronto history for 1902 and found that there was a massive fire on July 10th at the P. MacIntosh Feed Co. Five firefighters were killed in two separate wall collapses. The building was previously owned by the Toronto Street Railway Company as a stable that was still packed with hay and other flammable materials. The alarm was first sounded by a policeman walking his beat who saw the flames. A bylaw was waved to allow the burials to occur on a Sunday. I could see George calling that in and Murdoch investigating until he reaches the conclusion that it was a tragic accident. Snacky already noted that Enrico Caruso made a record and several wonderful classical works were also recorded for Julia to play on her gramophone. Oops! I did it again (with the quote button). Good find. Interesting. I actually thought that perhaps the Police department could do something with the Fire department this season. I’d love to see the firemen in uniform. This incident would have been a big deal in Toronto at the time. I like the MM fire wagon too. I think it’s cool although they may need more than one. This one will hardly put out the fire in Brackenreid let alone the blazing inferno that would have occurred to have caused the wall collapse. I was reading a book today about the increasing "massiveness" of disasters and how juxtaposed with encroaching secularization. For instance, instead of nature being made as the unfolding providence of God for humankind, nature ("red in tooth and claw") ran according to laws completely indifferent to humankind (Evolution, natural selection, materialism). The economy and the world of business also seemed increasingly indifferent and "machine-like" (Adam Smith's "Invisible Hand", the Population Checks of Malthus). In the Middle Ages, if a big disaster happened, it was an Act of God. If a war was won or lost, it was the Will of God (and the casualties were mainly an elite warrior class and mercenaries, not the peasants and civilians). When there was a big train wreck in William's day (which I referenced somewhere above), it was Human Error. When we developed weapons of mass destruction and involved civilians in war, it was a man-made disaster. There was no greater Purpose: we were responsible for problems of enormous scope that we could not solve. Stock market crash? How do we solve that? Dust bowl? What do we do? This was one of the most important revolutions in consciousness in world history. Some of it can be attributed to the rise of modern science. Another part of it can be attributed it to subjecting the Bible to historical criticism, which, for many, reduced the Bible to "mere doctrine" presented in a document riddled with inconsistencies and disprovable assertions rather than THE REVEALED TRUTH. More importantly, it reduced human beings to just another animal. This is the context for any struggles William, Julia, or any other character may have with religion. And I hope it gets played to the hilt if there is any Big Disaster episode. The book I'm reading, which I recommend highly for anyone who wants to truly understand this era is "The Secularization of the European Mind in the 19th Century" by Owen Chadwick. I plan to read it forward, backward, and upside down until it totally sinks in. I intended this as the opening salvo for a thread on Julia's religion, or lack there of, but I think it helps to frame the concepts in terms of events that might occur in actual MM episodes. |
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Post by lovemondays on May 31, 2014 2:42:02 GMT
The scope of your interests absolutely boggles the mind! I completely agree with you on all points.
Our society, and world for that matter, is so polarized by religious beliefs or lack thereof. The social shift from agricultural to an industrial base has also given rise to mandated education. The more you know, the more questions you have. While William and Julia are both scientists, she has far more formal education and the added burden of being a woman in the Victorian era. She's had to be a warrior to get where she is. William has just had to be a man.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is Julia's struggles to reach her current place in the world order could only be achieved by her continually asking "why not?" at the foot of every wall she's encountered. Organized religion is founded on the principle of "thou shall because it is written". Even William is starting to question some of the fundamentals of his faith.
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Post by snacky on May 31, 2014 3:06:32 GMT
The scope of your interests absolutely boggles the mind! I completely agree with you on all points. Our society, and world for that matter, is so polarized by religious beliefs or lack thereof. The social shift from agricultural to an industrial base has also given rise to mandated education. The more you know, the more questions you have. While William and Julia are both scientists, she has far more formal education and the added burden of being a woman in the Victorian era. She's had to be a warrior to get where she is. William has just had to be a man. I guess what I'm trying to get at is Julia's struggles to reach her current place in the world order could only be achieved by her continually asking "why not?" at the foot of every wall she's encountered. Organized religion is founded on the principle of "thou shall because it is written". Even William is starting to question some of the fundamentals of his faith. Hehe, well it's more that a show like Murdoch Mysteries appeals to someone with a wide sweep of interests. XD I'm glad to get a chance to put some of my otherwise wasted reading to use. Very good point about William's lack of formal education. That's almost totally overlooked in MM, though I think it's been suggested that George isn't a detective yet because he lacks the qualifications. What qualifications does William have? Street smarts, mad math skillz, and a homburg! Julia not only had more formal education than William - she has some European travel under her belt as well. She studied psychiatry in Vienna! I would like to see that education gap come up some how. D: But I'm sure you're right that William appreciates that Julia needs the extra leverage to be an independent woman where as he gets to skate somewhat on being a man. So if he ever feels a bit intimidated by her Wall of Degrees, this probably softens the blow. I like the "thou shalt" vs. "why not" angle! By the way, have you been following the whole #YesAllWomen discussion? Very pertinent to the difference between Julia and William's professional "gaze". |
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Post by lovemondays on May 31, 2014 3:20:17 GMT
I'm not on Twitter. What's the gist of it?
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Post by snacky on May 31, 2014 3:36:15 GMT
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Post by lovemondays on May 31, 2014 4:01:28 GMT
Well it's about bloody well time! Thank you for the link. There certainly are echoes of that discussion in MM. Victor/Victorian is one of my favourite episodes. I know you don't particularly care for Wm's apology at the end but I loved it. His logic was infuriating but he is very forward in his thinking about equality of the sexes. Julia has mentioned how difficult her path has been several times but Wm always seems to accept it as a sign of her strength, not get all blustery like Brackenreid did over men vs women.
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Post by snacky on May 31, 2014 4:12:28 GMT
Well it's about bloody well time! Thank you for the link. There certainly are echoes of that discussion in MM. Victor/Victorian is one of my favourite episodes. I know you don't particularly care for Wm's apology at the end but I loved it. His logic was infuriating but he is very forward in his thinking about equality of the sexes. Julia has mentioned how difficult her path has been several times but Wm always seems to accept it as a sign of her strength, not get all blustery like Brackenreid did over men vs women. To clarify I appreciated his take on it, I just didn't like how he lurked around waiting for his chance to explain his clever reasoning. Grrr. It somehow felt like a putdown of Julia. Otherwise, I love that episode, too. XD And I do love the little wry looks William can give to show that he's only putting up with loutish opinions for the sake of not making waves. I also think his opinions on these matters has "evolved" through contact with Julia - I really like that he didn't start out with perfect opinions and still needs to learn some stuff. I can't think of any specific examples of this, but I'm also under the impression William gives Julia room to fail and pick herself back up rather than trying to protect her in anyway (including from what he might thing of as public embarrassment or disgrace). I find that aspect of his character really interesting - for the 19th century or even today, for that matter. |
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Post by lovemondays on May 31, 2014 4:24:02 GMT
I think that's what makes Wm so intriguing. I think it was in "Lovers in a Murderous Time" when Julia really challenged William to look at his beliefs, specifically about divorce and how that was perceived by the Church. He finally arrived at the conclusion that true love can't be wrong; therefore, he would stand by her even though he could be excommunicated for marrying a divorcee.
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Post by snacky on May 31, 2014 4:48:39 GMT
I think that's what makes Wm so intriguing. I think it was in "Lovers in a Murderous Time" when Julia really challenged William to look at his beliefs, specifically about divorce and how that was perceived by the Church. He finally arrived at the conclusion that true love can't be wrong; therefore, he would stand by her even though he could be excommunicated for marrying a divorcee. I think it was Winston's Lost Night that you're thinking of, but that's one where I thought Julia was a bit dismissive about William's beliefs. After he had been so careful not to make her an adulteress, she should have at least expect that her status as a divorcee would have some impact on him. She's lucky that his chat with God led him to come around to her viewpoint (as it usually does, lol). His conclusion is very romantic, though.  It never hurts to revisit where true love stands in your order of priorities. Thanks for bringing up the excommunication part. I never followed the train of reasoning there, even though lovemondays has been pointing it up in regard to marrying out of faith. Wow, if William were excommunicated, that would make a really interesting episode. D: For Julia as well, since she would feel guilty. If the past is any indication, she would anticipate William blaming her before he even thought it. |
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Post by lovemondays on May 31, 2014 4:59:19 GMT
Thanks for the episode correction. I only watched that episode once. I loved the shipper arc in that episode but the Churchill storyline left me flat even though I am a big Downton Abbey fan.
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Post by snacky on May 31, 2014 5:04:57 GMT
Thanks for the episode correction. I only watched that episode once. I loved the shipper arc in that episode but the Churchill storyline left me flat even though I am a big Downton Abbey fan. Me too because the guy who played Churchill reminded me of a guy I once dated. XD |
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It never hurts to revisit where true love stands in your order of priorities.