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Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 6, 2014 6:08:47 GMT
I don't know that I buy the idea of William being a virgin, and I don't know that I'm convinced that they've never "known" each other, but it sure is fun to think they don't know each other that way. Which is unlike me-but I suspect that it has to so with some lovely angsty UST!
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Post by snacky on Jul 6, 2014 6:26:02 GMT
I don't know that I buy the idea of William being a virgin, and I don't know that I'm convinced that they've never "known" each other, but it sure is fun to think they don't know each other that way. Which is unlike me-but I suspect that it has to so with some lovely angsty UST! It sure is fun honoring the idea!
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Post by murdochic on Jul 6, 2014 10:52:06 GMT
William isn't a virgin. He and Julia have slept together. His memory of her in 301 showed they were lovers. Plus, they almost had sex in Green Muse. I seriously doubt even George, Emily or Henry are virgins.
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Post by snacky on Jul 6, 2014 15:50:02 GMT
William isn't a virgin. He and Julia have slept together. His memory of her in 301 showed they were lovers. Plus, they almost had sex in Green Muse. I seriously doubt even George, Emily or Henry are virgins. I will totally agree on George - he may even be ambisexual experienced. Did you catch his playboy pose in Kung Fu Crabtree? I thought he might be flirting!
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jul 6, 2014 17:49:18 GMT
William isn't a virgin. He and Julia have slept together. His memory of her in 301 showed they were lovers. Plus, they almost had sex in Green Muse.
William is a practising Catholic. He was under the influence of alcohol in "The Green Muse". Alcohol is well known for its disinhibiting properties He was amnesic in "The MURDOCH Identity"; we can deduce his memory could have been somewhat altered; he could have made a confusion between the reality and his daydreams/fantasies.
He has a deep respect for Julia; he refuses to compromise her reputation. He has principles. It's one of the reasons that she loves him.
Julia was surprised to see him in his bathing suit and seemed to be delighted to admire his shapely body in "Loch Ness MURDOCH".
Once I had a doubt in "Stroll on the Wild Side":
1- The victim was a woman with a tatoo just above her ankle on her calf. When Detective MURDOCH interviewed her fiancé, he was surprised that he could have not to know/he ignored that the woman he loved had a tatoo while they both engaged. First I though that William seemed to not be against sexual intercourses or at least intimate moments between man and women provided they were engaged. But then, I understood that William supposed that if a woman dared to have a tatoo, she surely must have been intimate with her fiancé or show her tatoo to him or at least talk about it with him. By the way, her fiancé was offended and he precised that she was a good Christian and so she would remain a virgin until their wedding.
2- William had dinner with Anna Fulford and they kissed. The very next day, Inspector BRACKENREID noticed that the very ponctual detective was late for the first time since he knew him. A way to tend us to think he had a "very good evening with a woman". But I think he just sat up late the night before -a busy night: having dinner, flirting, and taking Anna home because he's a gentleman and reciting his prayers of course!- and he wasn't accustomed. Moreover, Anna asked George what or rather who kept William back in Toronto. We all knew the answer: Julia. She was married to another man but he was still in love with her so I can't see/imagine how he could have been unfaithful to Julia and slept with Anna.
To finish, at this time, it was normal to remain a virgin for men and women who believed in social mores/decency until their weeding and whatever their age.
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Post by snacky on Jul 6, 2014 18:13:38 GMT
I think there's room for people to believe what they want about how far William and Julia have gone. Personally, I'm having fun speculating on all sides of that fence. If there's quantum entanglement involved, then I can HAVE IT ALL!
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 6, 2014 19:36:48 GMT
I think there's room for people to believe what they want about how far William and Julia have gone. Personally, I'm having fun speculating on all sides of that fence. If there's quantum entanglement involved, then I can HAVE IT ALL! I'm enjoying the speculation as well. Quite frankly, there's good evidence to support any of these positions-none of them are out of character or implausible. I agree-the quantum entanglement is fun, and perhaps one of the reasons I'm enjoying the show so much. Explicitness leaves nothing to the imagination and is sometimes tittilating (sp?), but allusion is far sexier and fun.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 6, 2014 20:14:34 GMT
Apologies if this is misplaced, but what's the deal with the dolls in season 7. Did they become an inside joke, or are they a harbinger of threats to come, perhaps from Gillies? There was of course the doll in Friday the 13th, but while I was watching Blast of Silence, I noticed a random doll at around the 15 minute mark. She has a pink dress, and is just randomly placed on a cart. I took a screenshot, but alas, I have no image server.
It just seems to random to be a coincidence.
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Post by snacky on Jul 6, 2014 20:22:19 GMT
I'm enjoying the speculation as well. Quite frankly, there's good evidence to support any of these positions-none of them are out of character or implausible. I agree-the quantum entanglement is fun, and perhaps one of the reasons I'm enjoying the show so much. Explicitness leaves nothing to the imagination and is sometimes tittilating (sp?), but allusion is far sexier and fun. Variety is the spice of life! I think it's fun to fantasize how things might turn out one way or another without locking myself into a particular chain of events. I don't object to other people who want to maintain a strict backstory in their heads (though I hope they can keep in mind that as long as there as no evidence on screen either way, other people have a right to their own backstories). I do have to say that given William's commitment to propriety - both from his Catholic upbringing and his attempt to mold himself to some image of the Victorian middle class gentleman - I was amazed at how a little absinthe could transform him into Casanova. That episode was pure genius on so many levels. Source: CosmicCavalcade
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Post by snacky on Jul 6, 2014 20:29:14 GMT
Apologies if this is misplaced, but what's the deal with the dolls in season 7. Did they become an inside joke, or are they a harbinger of threats to come, perhaps from Gillies? There was of course the doll in Friday the 13th, but while I was watching Blast of Silence, I noticed a random doll at around the 15 minute mark. She has a pink dress, and is just randomly placed on a cart. I took a screenshot, but alas, I have no image server. It just seems to random to be a coincidence. I didn't notice, but now I'm curious. Because my attention has been drawn to other subtle symbolism like the "language of flowers", my antenna is now up for other crafty bits of symbolism. Those dolls could have been an attempt to provoke a sort of subliminal message in the audience that Gillies was lurking about - until the Big Reveal that he was dead. I thought the discovery of his death was a bit of an anti-climax for the series Super Villain, though. I'm kind of hoping Gillies is still alive. Credit: 22OntarioStreet
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Post by murdochic on Jul 6, 2014 20:37:07 GMT
I honestly don't know why people believe William is a virgin or that he and Julia haven't been lovers. The evidence on the show would say the opposite on both. Until I saw it posted about on here I hadn't know anyone thought these things. It's was obvious to me that William wasn't a virgin before S3 and that W/J were lovers in S3. And possibly are again in S7. Williams memories, dreams and fantasies are too detailed for a virgin.
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Post by snacky on Jul 6, 2014 21:04:41 GMT
I honestly don't know why people believe William is a virgin or that he and Julia haven't been lovers. The evidence on the show would say the opposite on both. Until I saw it posted about on here I hadn't know anyone thought these things. It's was obvious to me that William wasn't a virgin before S3 and that W/J were lovers in S3. And possibly are again in S7. Williams memories, dreams and fantasies are too detailed for a virgin. Unless you actually see them do the deed onscreen, and it isn't in a dream or a fantasy, then the possibility remains open that William has "saved himself for marriage". Julia, on the other hand, is not a virgin according to canon evidence: her abortion, her marriage to Darcy, etc. For me the only problem with the virgin idea is in other fandoms it led to the most awful fanfic imaginable. But given the Victorian context, I suppose this is different. Anyway, what's the of point being a hard-liner here? Being a sexual possibility omnivore is delicious!
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 6, 2014 22:12:25 GMT
I honestly don't know why people believe William is a virgin or that he and Julia haven't been lovers. The evidence on the show would say the opposite on both. Until I saw it posted about on here I hadn't know anyone thought these things. It's was obvious to me that William wasn't a virgin before S3 and that W/J were lovers in S3. And possibly are again in S7. Williams memories, dreams and fantasies are too detailed for a virgin. I don't believe William is a virgin, there's the evidence as seen in eps like Green Muse, and the Murdoch Identity that hint at experience, and the references to his backstory in the logging camps and at his teetotaling "I gave it up-I didn't like who I was becoming." Methinks younger William got up to a bit of whoring and who knows what else before the Catholic guilt kicked in or some near-death, traumatic experience. Which is why a backstory is soooooo needed. But, with Julia, well, things are a bit different. He obviously has interest in her as a spouse and his beliefs tell him that he shouldn't lay with a woman who is his wife, and well, while he certainly wanted to do the deed with her, whether or not he actually did is up for debate. He very well could have-it's certainly been alluded to-but there's no smoking gun that says that they have biblical knowledge of one another. Which is why both theories are plausible, but nothing definitive. The speculation is fun!
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 6, 2014 22:19:27 GMT
Unless you actually see them do the deed onscreen, and it isn't in a dream or a fantasy, then the possibility remains open that William has "saved himself for marriage". Julia, on the other hand, is not a virgin according to canon evidence: her abortion, her marriage to Darcy, etc. For me the only problem with the virgin idea is in other fandoms it led to the most awful fanfic imaginable. But given the Victorian context, I suppose this is different. Anyway, what's the of point being a hard-liner here? Being a sexual possibility omnivore is delicious! Yes, both positions are entirely plausible-the did they or didn't they question has yet to be answered. Which is awesome, because you can imagine steamy encounters in broom closets, and lovely, hot, Victorian!porn, aka UST. Contemplating both positions is indeed delicious-it all depends on what you feel like having for dinner!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2014 22:30:57 GMT
Re: whether or not William is sexually experienced: an enjoyable read fest for me: Like Snacky, I like the deliberate ambiguity. Keep us guessing! For further speculation, don't forget he was a lumberjack for all those years, and I would think the culture there would include some socializing with the opposite sex. Also, he was engaged to Liza. In the books, they did not do the deed, but that does not have any bearing on the series. Also, in Murdoch of the Klondike, he gives one of the welcoming ladies of the town a pretty good eye. Who knows what else he got up to up there? When he speaks to Julia about preserving her reputation, in Season 6, he is talking about cohabitation, not sex specifically. I can see how that would be the interpretation though. Part of me wants the innocent William who will be initiated on his wedding night: so charming! But the other part of me fantasizes the man who for the most part, is a perfect gentleman, but who has some experience with women, maybe even Julia.
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