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Post by Fallenbelle on Aug 26, 2014 5:10:52 GMT
Me too.  I'd gladly pay for the content I watch, but for most shows I like, it's not an option here in Japan. Or if it is, it's a year or more later. If you don't mind some language, the Oatmeal did a great cartoon on this topic as it related to Game of Thrones. theoatmeal.com/comics/game_of_thronesOMG - the whole issue in a nutshell!!!! I love your students. I pay for a mid-level cable TV package: it costs more than I want to pay per month already, and I don't see why I can't have MM on that.  I used to have Netflix, but I dropped it after they wanted to charge me more for keeping DVD delivery. Like the cartoon, I don't see why I should have to pay for a lot of other crap on top of the cable package. Truthfully I'd rather get rid of the cable package and go full digital a la carte, but my housemate's head is still stuck in the 20th century, and I have to accommodate him on this. On the angel side, my Mom got the DVD sets of the first 6 seasons for Christmas and her birthday, and I'm sure she will be getting Season 7 as well (when the price becomes reasonable). It really is the entire issue in a nutshell, and for all the people who just say "Just get cable and pay for it legally" we're talking about prices nearing $300 (USD) a month for tv programming if you want your channels like HBO, Showtime, etc. My parents just have expanded basic and pay $225 (but that does include internet). It's no wonder more and more people are cutting the cord-I think that the whole issue will reach a tipping point sooner rather than later. |
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Post by snacky on Aug 26, 2014 5:50:59 GMT
I think it already reached the tipping point when people take "work-arounds" into their own hands. But the entertainment-industrial complex as a way of fighting back with Mass Legal Settlement Centers, and just trying to extract more money instead of recognizing and solving the problem. Really, how much share of income should people be expected to spend on entertainment? I think Internet should be included in that. Everyone's phone bill went up with the rise of the cell phone, too. There has been too much sly and successful upselling, while the traditional alternatives have been quietly removed.  That said, I think everyone is for paying the artist if we can figure out how to get the money more directly to them. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Aug 26, 2014 7:36:40 GMT
I think it already reached the tipping point when people take "work-arounds" into their own hands. But the entertainment-industrial complex as a way of fighting back with Mass Legal Settlement Centers, and just trying to extract more money instead of recognizing and solving the problem. Really, how much share of income should people be expected to spend on entertainment? I think Internet should be included in that. Everyone's phone bill went up with the rise of the cell phone, too. There has been too much sly and successful upselling, while the traditional alternatives have been quietly removed. That said, I think everyone is for paying the artist if we can figure out how to get the money more directly to them. I get that the big cats fronted the money to make the entire thing possible, so I'm fine with them making a profit-it's just that there are so many middlemen involved (and with them come the programming issues and such that create problems) and it's such an archaic system. Even HBO has admitted that pirating GoT hasn't hurt the dvd sales, and pirating for most people (at least in my experience) just comes down to people wanting to watch things sooner rather than later. Because of boards like this, and online groups, people want to experience in the fandom, discuss last night's episode at the water cooler, etc. Waiting a year or more takes a lot of enjoyment out of the equation, and thus, creates piracy. |
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Post by snacky on Aug 26, 2014 8:14:38 GMT
I get that the big cats fronted the money to make the entire thing possible, so I'm fine with them making a profit-it's just that there are so many middlemen involved (and with them come the programming issues and such that create problems) and it's such an archaic system. Even HBO has admitted that pirating GoT hasn't hurt the dvd sales, and pirating for most people (at least in my experience) just comes down to people wanting to watch things sooner rather than later. Because of boards like this, and online groups, people want to experience in the fandom, discuss last night's episode at the water cooler, etc. Waiting a year or more takes a lot of enjoyment out of the equation, and thus, creates piracy. It's the same issue in the book trade: publishers want to hold the line at ridiculous prices. No one is going to pay $20 for an ebook! Even authors are pointing out how cheap, even pirated, editions ultimately help their paper sales if it builds their platform and reach. Publishers are still stuck in the good old days when they could hold students hostage for $200 textbooks and libraries hostage for infinite overpriced journal subscriptions. The racket is over, folks. Get used to it. The new business model has to be based on actual service. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Aug 27, 2014 2:36:26 GMT
It is one of the highest viewed Canadian shows in Canada. There's only about ten shows though...(I dunno, I'm just guessing). I think maybe it doesn't get advertised the same way outside of Ontario so that's why a lot of people still haven't heard of it. And there's probably a fair amount of avoidance because Canadian tv was pretty bad up until recent years when we finally started to get some production value. Even so I know people who think the show is too 'hokey' and can't stand it for that reason. Sorry I should say I used to know them.  Hmm, perhaps they should be force-fed some American "faith values" TV if they really want to see "hokey". Perhaps they are too "edgy" for their own good. Do they have the Hallmark Channel in Canada? Because if they do, there's your "faith values" programming right there. |
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Post by snacky on Aug 27, 2014 3:11:14 GMT
Hmm, perhaps they should be force-fed some American "faith values" TV if they really want to see "hokey". Perhaps they are too "edgy" for their own good. Do they have the Hallmark Channel in Canada? Because if they do, there's your "faith values" programming right there. The Hallmark channel is putting it mildly! Ever wander up into the higher numbered channels of a cable TV package? A couple of years ago my housemate and I chose something like the Dish America package, because that happened to be cheapest for us...little did we suspect we had chosen the ALL FAITH AND VALUES ALL THE TIME package!!!! Seriously, how many reruns of Little House on the Prairie and Dr. Quinn Medicine Woman and Touched By an Angel can their be? And who knew their more than 10 channels devoted just to mega-church preachers! And country music has more than one dedicated channel, too! Anyway, it's not that I disagree with values. If you've read even a fraction of my comments you know one of the major things that attracts me to MM is the way it promotes the idea of moral integrity, and perhaps a few basic values (that really are non-partisan until some partisan schmuck gets their hands on them) like responsibility - to greater society as well your immediate family. I genuinely think the US needs to kick it up a notch in those areas, and they need to do it in a completely religion-free manner. I also think we need to bring back feminism, but this time with a side helping of open discussion of manhood so we don't get entitled little brats turning sorority houses into shooting galleries any more. I think MM casts a useful light on that, too. If that's hokey, its the kind of hokey America needs shoveled down it's throat right now. And I'm willing to throw down my IQ against anyone in the American room who tries to tell me otherwise, lol. Ps. My IQ will win.  |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Aug 27, 2014 3:20:10 GMT
Hmm, perhaps they should be force-fed some American "faith values" TV if they really want to see "hokey". Perhaps they are too "edgy" for their own good. Do they have the Hallmark Channel in Canada? Because if they do, there's your "faith values" programming right there. i guess so but i've only seen it once. i watched the sue thomas pilot awhile back (never got further than that one) and it said hallmark in the corner. i laughed at that because the sappy music at the beginning and general atmosphere made me think hallmark was involved before it was actually confirmed. i do know we have something called vision tv, and that aired a lot of nothing too good for a cowboy eps at one point. but I actually liked that show. |
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Post by snacky on Aug 27, 2014 3:33:47 GMT
i guess so but i've only seen it once. i watched the sue thomas pilot awhile back (never got further than that one) and it said hallmark in the corner. i laughed at that because the sappy music at the beginning and general atmosphere made me think hallmark was involved before it was actually confirmed. i do know we have something called vision tv, and that aired a lot of nothing too good for a cowboy eps at one point. but I actually liked that show. This isn't to say Christian shows are bad. I watched Sue Thomas. I also saw Little House on the Prairie and Dr. Quinn in their time. I loved Nothing Too Good for a Cowboy! Refuse to watch Touched by an Angel, Matlock (forgot to mention that one), and a host of other "family values" shows they rerun. I grew up in a Bible Belt area, and most of my relatives are involved in churches in some way, so I don't disrespect Christian belief. I just don't think it should be merged with the idea of values in general, or we will get what we have in America: people who think values in general are "hokey" because they are associated with religious beliefs they don't share! I think it was handled particularly badly on Sue Thomas. Those other shows bring religion into the historical context. The original Sue Thomas is religions, so I think it's fine to make that part of the character, but I don't think they should have made that the orientation of the whole show: that was pandering to a particular audience at the expense of a national one, and that's why Sue Thomas only lasted a couple of seasons and only gets syndicated on cheap channels despite Yannick's pretty presence. The other problem with Sue Thomas is that they apparently got some side funding from some fairly conservative forces, and they slipped in some outrageously conservative political messages. If that show wasn't cancelled after 3 seasons, the rise of Twitter would have brought on a Twitterstorm of protest that would have shut it down. Sorry, as much as Fundamentalist America likes to think it's True America, it's just not. All of this pains me to say because I think it was really important to have a show about deaf culture out there. Anyway, I think MM got the mix right: focus on the idea of integrity, and the religious beliefs of the character, not pushing religious messages onto the audience. |
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Post by carco on Aug 27, 2014 23:47:19 GMT
It is one of the highest viewed Canadian shows in Canada. There's only about ten shows though...(I dunno, I'm just guessing). I think maybe it doesn't get advertised the same way outside of Ontario so that's why a lot of people still haven't heard of it. And there's probably a fair amount of avoidance because Canadian tv was pretty bad up until recent years when we finally started to get some production value. Even so I know people who think the show is too 'hokey' and can't stand it for that reason. Sorry I should say I used to know them. Since the 90s lot of good American TV shows have been made in Canada, and their production quality has to match the production quality and style/pacing of other shows here. We have gotten used to villains having Canadian accents! Perhaps the experience from working on those shows rubbed off on Canadian production teams? MM is very much like an American show, pacing-wise. As I said to fans2tvshows, I think something is wrong with MM distribution since it seems to be getting sold to a bunch of "public broadcasting" venues: these are perceived as primarily for "old fuddy duddies", and that means MM is being lumped in with the British Mystery genre. It's not that genre. On the up side, maybe MM will help "update" the image of public TV and bring in a younger audience. But I think it more likely that being on those stations will drag MM down. Possibly you're right snacky, about the production teams in Canada getting some experience from US productions being filmed up here. But I think much of it has to do with money, too. Canadian audiences alone can't support a show for too long without grants and other creative funding so unless it's a show that has been sold to U.S. networks, it has a lot less available to spend. I knew it was out there but never saw any advertising for MM on TV, I just kept seeing pics in the local newspaper when they were filming in the area. Usually it was a pic of this very serious boring looking guy in a bowler (or whatever) wearing a 3 pce. suit doing something boring like looking at a body on the edge of the river and I would immediately dismiss it is another boring British type Mystery (not my genre) and made a point of avoiding it like the plague. Took the dog for a walk instead. But one day last summer I caught a bit of one episode (old rerun) and caught a bit of sarcasm and humour and the Inspector poking fun at Murdoch and realized I had misjudged the show. The next evening I watched and was treated to one of William's day dreams about Julia in the morgue and have never looked back. I've seen a lot of comments by others saying that they found the show by accident...as I did. It's shame but I think the title and the dark nature of the early episodes turned off anyone who is not a murder mysteries fan. To me this show is actually more of an early days police and forensics show. Having many of the cast at the Fan Expo really helps to bring the show to the attention of younger TV viewers too, I think. My college age niece is making a trip to TO this weekend to go to FE. She's a Castle fan but I'm hoping she will be intrigued by MM, too. |
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Post by snacky on Aug 28, 2014 3:03:09 GMT
It's shame but I think the title and the dark nature of the early episodes turned off anyone who is not a murder mysteries fan. To me this show is actually more of an early days police and forensics show. Having many of the cast at the Fan Expo really helps to bring the show to the attention of younger TV viewers too, I think. My college age niece is making a trip to TO this weekend to go to FE. She's a Castle fan but I'm hoping she will be intrigued by MM, too. Another problem is that new viewers will want to watch the series from the start: which means they will start from the lowest budget episodes. I think the first season was also still in "exploration mode" stylistically, and even the actors were trying to figure out where they wanted to go. William was a little more on the Asperger's spectrum during season 1, and some of his lines were just a little too affected for me. I've commented about the tans looking wrong, but someone else pointed out that it was just bad make up (or bad lighting crew?) making everyone look orange! Anyway new fans need to somehow be motivated enough to get through that first season. In a way, MM is better off if people start in the middle, watch a few eps, get addicted, and THEN go back and watch the series from the start! The series title is a problem for Americans (though Murdoch Mysteries is MILES better than The Artful Detective) because it does evoke your Grandpa's PBS mysteries when it doesn't belong in that category at all. But it seems to me that problem could be overcome with good promotion. Yet it seems that MM is being deliberately promoted to PBS-like channels: that was the 2009 contract in the US (only for Season 1, where it failed), and that's where it shows up on in France. Is Fan Expo something like Comic Con in the US? Has MM made an appearance there before? If not, I'm really glad they are doing some fan outreach of this nature because they do have a lot of "cult tv show" elements (as I keep harping on), and conventions like that is the place to pick up crossover fans. Plus people like to dress up there, and MM allows for some fun costumes! The other missed opportunity, though, is Steampunk conventions. The writers, at least, should be going to those. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Aug 28, 2014 3:10:51 GMT
They did it last year too. I remember there was a pic of the cast (or maybe just Yannick) standing beside an eight foot chewbacca. xD
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Post by snacky on Aug 28, 2014 3:14:19 GMT
They did it last year too. I remember there was a pic of the cast (or maybe just Yannick) standing beside an eight foot chewbacca. xD I saw that - such a great pic! I hope it brought MM a tsunami of new fans!  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Aug 28, 2014 4:15:20 GMT
It's shame but I think the title and the dark nature of the early episodes turned off anyone who is not a murder mysteries fan. To me this show is actually more of an early days police and forensics show. Having many of the cast at the Fan Expo really helps to bring the show to the attention of younger TV viewers too, I think. My college age niece is making a trip to TO this weekend to go to FE. She's a Castle fan but I'm hoping she will be intrigued by MM, too. Another problem is that new viewers will want to watch the series from the start: which means they will start from the lowest budget episodes. I think the first season was also still in "exploration mode" stylistically, and even the actors were trying to figure out where they wanted to go. William was a little more on the Asperger's spectrum during season 1, and some of his lines were just a little too affected for me. I've commented about the tans looking wrong, but someone else pointed out that it was just bad make up (or bad lighting crew?) making everyone look orange! Anyway new fans need to somehow be motivated enough to get through that first season. In a way, MM is better off if people start in the middle, watch a few eps, get addicted, and THEN go back and watch the series from the start! The series title is a problem for Americans (though Murdoch Mysteries is MILES better than The Artful Detective) because it does evoke your Grandpa's PBS mysteries when it doesn't belong in that category at all. But it seems to me that problem could be overcome with good promotion. Yet it seems that MM is being deliberately promoted to PBS-like channels: that was the 2009 contract in the US (only for Season 1, where it failed), and that's where it shows up on in France. Is Fan Expo something like Comic Con in the US? Has MM made an appearance there before? If not, I'm really glad they are doing some fan outreach of this nature because they do have a lot of "cult tv show" elements (as I keep harping on), and conventions like that is the place to pick up crossover fans. Plus people like to dress up there, and MM allows for some fun costumes! The other missed opportunity, though, is Steampunk conventions. The writers, at least, should be going to those. I'm probably about to out myself as a minority here, but I don't mind "The Artful Detective" as a title even though I wished they would stick with the name "Murdoch Mysteries" if that's what the rest of the world is using for continuity purposes. What William does really is an art-he thinks differently from others, goes against conventional wisdom and approaches his work with such a style that it truly is a sight to behold-he practices "detecting" in much the same way one would practice law or medicine. It's just beautiful. That said, I'd like to see what others think the show should be titled besides the above two names, because I agree, the title isn't doing the show justice. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Aug 28, 2014 4:17:43 GMT
My suggestions: CSI Toronto: The Early Years *runs before people start throwing things at her* |
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Post by snacky on Aug 28, 2014 4:24:45 GMT
I'm probably about to out myself as a minority here, but I don't mind "The Artful Detective" as a title even though I wished they would stick with the name "Murdoch Mysteries" if that's what the rest of the world is using for continuity purposes. I shall lead the charge to burn FallenBelle in effigy! Just kidding! I think the findability problem is so egregious I can't get past that. But Eus is probably right in terms of "Artful" sounding wussy to American viewers, right or wrong. I'm personally a bit of an art snob (albeit with shallow pre-raphaelite tastes), so it's not that I want to see "The Fantasy Football Detective" instead. I'm down with CC in the Landscape scene being one of the best scenes in MM, and possibly one of the best in all television, as well. America is so into everything Bigger and Badder, perhaps MM should be retitled for American distribution: "The Greatest Detective in the Realm!" |
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I'd gladly pay for the content I watch, but for most shows I like, it's not an option here in Japan. Or if it is, it's a year or more later. 
