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Post by snacky on Sept 29, 2014 16:08:16 GMT
We've discussed variations on tie symbolism, but we haven't discussed tie as male totem of power. Remember that show West Wing? President Bartlett had his "Game Tie". Things went amok when he lost the tie. His wife Abbey tried to break his dependence by cutting off his tie with scissors before a bit speech. (Ouch!) There is another scene from West Wing that was really great, but I can't find it on YouTube. President Bartlett asks Abbey which tie is "more dominating". Abbey asks if she can an wear it later. I was able to confirm that line from someone's Tumblr. However, I remember a further part regarding a tie that "screams domination" - implying some "screaming" that will take place later, with Abbey wearing that tie. (btw, if anyone can find a clip of that scene, please post it). Anyway, perhaps Julia is always twiddling with the tie because she has plans to wear it later.  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 29, 2014 16:29:46 GMT
We've discussed variations on tie symbolism, but we haven't discussed tie as male totem of power. Remember that show West Wing? President Bartlett had his "Game Tie". Things went amok when he lost the tie. His wife Abbey tried to break his dependence by cutting off his tie with scissors before a bit speech. (Ouch!) There is another scene from West Wing that was really great, but I can't find it on YouTube. President Bartlett asks Abbey which tie is "more dominating". Abbey asks if she can an wear it later. I was able to confirm that line from someone's Tumblr. However, I remember a further part regarding a tie that "screams domination" - implying some "screaming" that will take place later, with Abbey wearing that tie. (btw, if anyone can find a clip of that scene, please post it). Anyway, perhaps Julia is always twiddling with the tie because she has plans to wear it later. Or, it's because she knows the tie is symbolic, and once it comes off, all of William's reserve disappears. |
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Post by snacky on Sept 29, 2014 23:12:43 GMT
This is an addition to Grand Unifying Tie Theory. The unleashing lemma is stipulated!  |
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Post by fan2tvshows on Sept 30, 2014 22:06:19 GMT
Anyway, perhaps Julia is always twiddling with the tie because she has plans to wear it later. It seemed to me that Julia wore ties when she worked in the morgue.
Watch this video at about the third minute (3'33).
In this case, the tie is a professional symbol, a proof that women are men's equals.
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Post by snacky on Oct 1, 2014 1:39:09 GMT
Anyway, perhaps Julia is always twiddling with the tie because she has plans to wear it later. It seemed to me that Julia wore ties when she worked in the morgue.
Watch this video at about the third minute (3'33).
In this case, the tie is a professional symbol, a proof that women are men's equals.
I believe Emily also wears a tie on occasion. But in this episode of The West Wing that I'm talking about, the person wearing the tie was going to be doing the dominating that night... |
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Post by fan2tvshows on Oct 1, 2014 22:11:28 GMT
It seemed to me that Julia wore ties when she worked in the morgue.
Watch this video at about the third minute (3'33).
In this case, the tie is a professional symbol, a proof that women are men's equals.
I believe Emily also wears a tie on occasion. But in this episode of The West Wing that I'm talking about, the person wearing the tie was going to be doing the dominating that night... Yes, she does.  I think William doesn't care about Julia wearing a tie to defend her position in a man's world but he prefers to keep the tie in some cases. In "Snakes and Ladders", when Julia was leading him while they were dancing, William quickly expressed his desire to take the control. He wanted to be the dominating.  |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 1, 2014 22:49:30 GMT
I think William doesn't care about Julia wearing a tie to defend her position in a man's world but he prefers to keep the tie in some cases. In "Snakes and Ladders", when Julia was leading him while they were dancing, William quickly expressed his desire to take the control. He wanted to be the dominating. In ballroom dancing the man always leads, that's why William suggested that Julia let him lead. The man is always moving forwards and the woman moving backwards, it makes sense for the man to lead, it's very difficult to lead when moving backwards, I've tried it with my other half who isn't a dancer. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 2, 2014 0:36:52 GMT
I think William doesn't care about Julia wearing a tie to defend her position in a man's world but he prefers to keep the tie in some cases. In "Snakes and Ladders", when Julia was leading him while they were dancing, William quickly expressed his desire to take the control. He wanted to be the dominating. In ballroom dancing the man always leads, that's why William suggested that Julia let him lead. The man is always moving forwards and the woman moving backwards, it makes sense for the man to lead, it's very difficult to lead when moving backwards, I've tried it with my other half who isn't a dancer. I think William was also feeling humiliated and barely staying on top of things as it is. Julia throwing in anything unconventional just made things more confusing and increased the risk of further humiliation. I'm glad Julia had some mercy on him! I think male domination is the normal preference in Victorian society (for both men and women), but William has a bit of a subversive preference for dominating women which comes out in some of his fantasies. I'm not sure he'd consciously admit that to himself though. I just think he'd really enjoy it if Julia took charge. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 2, 2014 0:49:25 GMT
I think William was also feeling humiliated and barely staying on top of things as it is. Julia throwing in anything unconventional just made things more confusing and increased the risk of further humiliation. I'm glad Julia had some mercy on him! I think male domination is the normal preference in Victorian society (for both men and women), but William has a bit of a subversive preference for dominating women which comes out in some of his fantasies. I'm not sure he'd consciously admit that to himself though. I just think he'd really enjoy it if Julia took charge. Ok, you've thrown me for a loop here. What was William feeling humiliated about? Male domination was normal, it was a typical paternalistic society. I think William likes strong women, still can't figure out why when he's so quiet and repressed, perhaps you're right about dominant women but he's not into dominatrices ... other than Julia in his chloroform dream. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 2, 2014 1:15:08 GMT
I think William was also feeling humiliated and barely staying on top of things as it is. Julia throwing in anything unconventional just made things more confusing and increased the risk of further humiliation. I'm glad Julia had some mercy on him! I think male domination is the normal preference in Victorian society (for both men and women), but William has a bit of a subversive preference for dominating women which comes out in some of his fantasies. I'm not sure he'd consciously admit that to himself though. I just think he'd really enjoy it if Julia took charge. Ok, you've thrown me for a loop here. What was William feeling humiliated about? Male domination was normal, it was a typical paternalistic society. I think William likes strong women, still can't figure out why when he's so quiet and repressed, perhaps you're right about dominant women but he's not into dominatrices ... other than Julia in his chloroform dream. I was referring to the dancing lessons where William had been hoping to impress Julia, but she caught him out as a rather poor dancer instead. I had also had something more subtle in mind in terms of domination instincts - I was thinking of the original scene with Liza where she is on top and taking all the action, and he's very happy with that arrangement. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 2, 2014 1:28:07 GMT
I was referring to the dancing lessons where William had been hoping to impress Julia, but she caught him out as a rather poor dancer instead. I had also had something more subtle in mind in terms of domination instincts - I was thinking of the original scene with Liza where she is on top and taking all the action, and he's very happy with that arrangement. Ah, yes, I'd forgotten about that. He was rather disconcerted when he saw her. Yes, he was happy with the situation. |
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Post by fan2tvshows on Oct 2, 2014 20:40:02 GMT
I think William doesn't care about Julia wearing a tie to defend her position in a man's world but he prefers to keep the tie in some cases. In "Snakes and Ladders", when Julia was leading him while they were dancing, William quickly expressed his desire to take the control. He wanted to be the dominating. In ballroom dancing the man always leads, that's why William suggested that Julia let him lead. The man is always moving forwards and the woman moving backwards, it makes sense for the man to lead, it's very difficult to lead when moving backwards, I've tried it with my other half who isn't a dancer. I know now, it's not a good example to illustrate my point but I don't change my mind about William keeping the tie.  |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 2, 2014 20:52:21 GMT
In ballroom dancing the man always leads, that's why William suggested that Julia let him lead. The man is always moving forwards and the woman moving backwards, it makes sense for the man to lead, it's very difficult to lead when moving backwards, I've tried it with my other half who isn't a dancer. I know now, it's not a good example to illustrate my point but I don't change my mind about William keeping the tie. I agree about the tie, I suspect it keeps a lid on all the 'out of William' experiences. Seems they only happen if he isn't wearing a tie. |
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Post by fan2tvshows on Oct 2, 2014 22:02:29 GMT
I know now, it's not a good example to illustrate my point but I don't change my mind about William keeping the tie. I agree about the tie, I suspect it keeps a lid on all the 'out of William' experiences. Seems they only happen if he isn't wearing a tie. I do not re ally understand why the tie is so important especially when I know it will end up on the floor.  |
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Post by snacky on Oct 3, 2014 5:27:53 GMT
I know now, it's not a good example to illustrate my point but I don't change my mind about William keeping the tie. I agree about the tie, I suspect it keeps a lid on all the 'out of William' experiences. Seems they only happen if he isn't wearing a tie. Hmm, does this require another priestess/temple/cult? Temple of the Sacred Unbound Tie? IMHO the Out of William experiences are entirely linked to the presence of the homburg, but then again the Cult of the Magic Homburg is my personal cult, so I'm biased in that respect. But I do think Julia is preoccupied with the tie - probably for multiple reasons. |
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