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Post by snacky on Oct 17, 2014 18:16:37 GMT
It's odd to be declaring an MM fanfic cliche already, since there's so little fanfic, but I think I'm going to call this one.
Also I'm sort of intrigued by why it seems to be embedded in the collective Jilliam fantasy psyche (me being guilty of it as well).
Why is William worried about hurting Julia?
After all he's a pretty mild-mannered guy. Julia is the aggressive one. She's not exactly fragile. Going by the TV show character rules, she's probably the one who is going to hurt him!
Yet...I sense a recurring theme, independently infiltrating the imaginations of multiple writers. What's up with that? What subconscious bread crumbs has William been dropping to make this a Meme?
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 17, 2014 19:30:04 GMT
It's odd to be declaring an MM fanfic cliche already, since there's so little fanfic, but I think I'm going to call this one. Also I'm sort of intrigued by why it seems to be embedded in the collective Jilliam fantasy psyche (me being guilty of it as well). Why is William worried about hurting Julia? After all he's a pretty mild-mannered guy. Julia is the aggressive one. She's not exactly fragile. Going by the TV show character rules, she's probably the one who is going to hurt him! Yet...I sense a recurring theme, independently infiltrating the imaginations of multiple writers. What's up with that? What subconscious bread crumbs has William been dropping to make this a Meme? I suspect that it once again relates to William's underlying insecurity regarding Julia-he's the consummate, chivalrous gentleman around her and I suspect he fears that of he lets loose, he'll scare her (and thereby hurt her). Agreed though-she's the one more likely to hurt him, and this dichotomy between the two is probably what's irresistibly intriguing to us ff writers. I think that ff writers have been picking up on it because it's present in the show as well-William's sacrificed a lot for Julia and it probably just carries over into other areas as well. This is also at a time when women were largely perceived as fragile flowers and William hasn't quite reconciled what he's always been taught about women with what Julia actually is. I think he's getting there, and being married to her will speed that process along. Plus, now that the testosterone levels are boosted, we may start to see him be more confident around her, and therefore, less likely to hurt her. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 17, 2014 20:06:22 GMT
I suspect that it once again relates to William's underlying insecurity regarding Julia-he's the consummate, chivalrous gentleman around her and I suspect he fears that of he lets loose, he'll scare her (and thereby hurt her). Agreed though-she's the one more likely to hurt him, and this dichotomy between the two is probably what's irresistibly intriguing to us ff writers. I think that ff writers have been picking up on it because it's present in the show as well-William's sacrificed a lot for Julia and it probably just carries over into other areas as well. This is also at a time when women were largely perceived as fragile flowers and William hasn't quite reconciled what he's always been taught about women with what Julia actually is. I think he's getting there, and being married to her will speed that process along. Plus, now that the testosterone levels are boosted, we may start to see him be more confident around her, and therefore, less likely to hurt her. For a minute I was about to argue the boosted testosterone levels, i.e. a more forceful William, was what was planting the idea he might go overboard and hurt Julia. But looking at the fic, the idea was there even in the Squishy!William era. Perhaps, as you say, it's part of the whole tie complex/archetype. Because it's part of the archetype swirling in the collective mythological unconscious, FF writers hone in on it as if it were a subliminal message flashing between the frames. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 17, 2014 20:13:39 GMT
I suspect that it once again relates to William's underlying insecurity regarding Julia-he's the consummate, chivalrous gentleman around her and I suspect he fears that of he lets loose, he'll scare her (and thereby hurt her). Agreed though-she's the one more likely to hurt him, and this dichotomy between the two is probably what's irresistibly intriguing to us ff writers. I think that ff writers have been picking up on it because it's present in the show as well-William's sacrificed a lot for Julia and it probably just carries over into other areas as well. This is also at a time when women were largely perceived as fragile flowers and William hasn't quite reconciled what he's always been taught about women with what Julia actually is. I think he's getting there, and being married to her will speed that process along. Plus, now that the testosterone levels are boosted, we may start to see him be more confident around her, and therefore, less likely to hurt her. For a minute I was about to argue the boosted testosterone levels, i.e. a more forceful William, was what was planting the idea he might go overboard and hurt Julia. But looking at the fic, the idea was there even in the Squishy!William era. Perhaps, as you say, it's part of the whole tie complex/archetype. Because it's part of the archetype swirling in the collective mythological unconscious, FF writers hone in on it as if it were a subliminal message flashing between the frames. I don't think his dark places are such that he would ever consciously or deliberately hurt her-it may happen when he gets carried away one night, but it would never be done deliberately. Julia knows this of course, but William is/has been afraid of causing her hurt and scaring her off. However, he may be realizing that the opposite is true, and he may need to start manning up around her. Which he did with Leslie-Julia now knows that he's perfectly able to protect her and this will ultimately take their relationship to a new level. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 17, 2014 20:17:54 GMT
I don't think his dark places are such that he would ever consciously or deliberately hurt her-it may happen when he gets carried away one night, but it would never be done deliberately. Oh, absolutely not. I'm talking about the widespread fanfic writer's notion that William *thinks* he will hurt Julia after their first roll in the hay. This notion seems to have been prevalent even before William started making a display of "manning up". |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 17, 2014 20:23:19 GMT
I don't think his dark places are such that he would ever consciously or deliberately hurt her-it may happen when he gets carried away one night, but it would never be done deliberately. Oh, absolutely not. I'm talking about the widespread fanfic writer's notion that William *thinks* he will hurt Julia after their first roll in the hay. This notion seems to have been prevalent even before William started making a display of "manning up". Because through the brilliant acting of YB and the beautiful art of subtext, we already know that William's still waters run deep. On the surface, William is a perfect gentleman, underneath he's still a passionate, red blooded male. But William's been keeping up the pretext of genteel civility for so long, he's got to be worried about what will happen when his true character is revealed. Julia already knows this however, but William remains insecure. It's a delicious dichotomy-a man who wants to protect from the baser acts of his sex, and a woman who is desperate to know those baser aspects of her buttoned down detective. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 17, 2014 20:36:40 GMT
Oh, absolutely not. I'm talking about the widespread fanfic writer's notion that William *thinks* he will hurt Julia after their first roll in the hay. This notion seems to have been prevalent even before William started making a display of "manning up". Because through the brilliant acting of YB and the beautiful art of subtext, we already know that William's still waters run deep. On the surface, William is a perfect gentleman, underneath he's still a passionate, red blooded male. But William's been keeping up the pretext of genteel civility for so long, he's got to be worried about what will happen when his true character is revealed. Julia already knows this however, but William remains insecure. It's a delicious dichotomy-a man who wants to protect from the baser acts of his sex, and a woman who is desperate to know those baser aspects of her buttoned down detective. There's also that whole Perv/Dark Places thread. Even fic writers who don't have that thread to refer to will be picking up those cues from the show to get what baser insticts/dark places William is suppressing. So I guess the sense that William is suppressing a lot combines with his insecurity combined with the whole tie mythos might lead fic writers to automatically posit that "did I hurt you?" reaction. It's fascinating to see archetype-making (not sure if that's the term for it) in action like that. Assuming the ff writers arrived at this idea separately, instead of copying from each other, the upshot is that the TV show conveyed a subconscious message. Not a very profound one, but still that's a powerful effect. |
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