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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 19, 2014 21:48:13 GMT
I see patience is not your strong point, rofl. You're right! But in my defence, I will quote lovemondays: "It is in the show's best interest to DRAG OUT the relationship for as long as possible, using every plot trick, no matter how stupid, to keep the star-crossed lovers apart". The writers of MURDOCH MYSTERIES, they're bloody hell very good at draging out. lol. And "lol" is the only english initials that I know. So please what does "rolf" mean?
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 19, 2014 21:18:51 GMT
Which episode was this particular argument in? William and Julia have had several but I think you are making an interesting point. The eleventh episode of the sixth season: Lovers in a Murderous time".
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 19, 2014 20:31:21 GMT
Relax and enjoy. It sounds to me like your frustration is the same as every other shipper of a scripted series. It is in the show's best interest to DRAG OUT the relationship for as long as possible, using every plot trick, no matter how stupid, to keep the star-crossed lovers apart. We could start a new thread on the ridiculous plot twists the writers of MM have used. I would call it "Julia's major mistakes" because she is always the one running from William (except when he went to the Yukon, but that made sense). I really enjoy thanks to Snacky and you. I loved when Julia and William have been playing a cat-and-mousse game. It's often the best part of the series. When the star-crossed lovers are a couple, writers offer viewers some romantic ships and then it's the routine so they decide to add some obstacles to make the story more interesting and in most cases, it's also the beginning of the end of the relationship. Julia is not the one who made mistakes. William also made some. He should never have silenced his feelings for her. He was dumb to make a promise to Darcy. No sense. We could start a thread on "who is responsible for this love disaster?". To finish, I remind you that I decided that I will focuse on mysteries. I think that's the only way to be not disappointed anymore and to keep enjoying MURDOCH MYSTERIES.
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 19, 2014 19:29:52 GMT
"I found their love story so much interesting and so much original than I expected -or at least I wanted to- ships to be more positive, happier or funnier but I noticed that the writers have chosen to develop and to exagerate the ship on just one point: its dramatic aspect". I think I understand now. You wanted the relationship to focus on positive, happy development. Instead there were many obstacles, conflicts, and negative experiences. I must admit, I don't mind a lot of conflict. I actually prefer it, and I think it gives the show some fuel to go on. The sad moments make the happy moments sweeter. I do not hate conflicts or obstacles. They always brought a certain dynamic to their relationship. The problem is they never ended and I noticed they did the same for the relationship between George and Emily. Poor George! It would appear that there's no place for romance. One example of a conflict that I loved. It was when Julia and William had an argument (a great moment because they said to each other what they really thought about their mistakes; those which brought them to this absurd situation while they have never stopped loving each other) and it was normal to expected a réconciliation. But there was no real one. The writers had not bothered to create one. They just skipped it. So where was the happy moment which could be sweeter? Again there was no one.
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 18, 2014 22:29:50 GMT
I noticed that the writers have chosen to develop and to exagerate the ship on just one point: its dramatic aspect. They made it too much complicated. "they are just working out the red tape" mean? Last question: can you tell me if my grammar is correct? I want to improve my english. Could you explain how you would have like the relationship between William and Julia to be simpler? Red tape means bureaucratie, or working out the details. Please do not worry about your English - it's close enough. You improve through reading. First I want you to know that I would like to be able to answer your questions faster but you must keep in mind that it's hard , very hard for me to express my opinons in english. Each time I try to make sentences which explain my reasoning in order that you can understand me and it takes me time and each time I'm not sure of the result. And it's fustrating. Soon you will simply grow tired of waiting my answers. I think "they made it too much complicated" were not the good words. I will try to explain what I meant through one or two examples. 1) William and Julia were stuck in a complicated situation. He is a practising Catholic and she was still married to Darcy. - Darcy and she were agreed to annul the marriage. Then she changed her mind. That's alright, it's perfectly understanble. - Then they decided to divorce and William made an important decision by accepting to marry her. YEAH!!! For once in his life, he chose her. - Everything should be alright: divorce, some few hard moments to come across/through and wedding. - BUT NO! Darcy changed his mind and then William and Julia were stuck in a impasse/a stalemate/a deadlock. (Which one of these term is more appropriate?). - At the end, Darcy was killed. Oh a new hope of happiness! - No, she felt guilty and she blamed herself and William for the murderer as if they pulled themselves the trigger. AAAARRRRGH! SO I would have prefered: - Darcy refuses to divorce, Julia finds a way to convince him to change his mind. She reminds him that what he suggested to her the evening of the last New Year's Eve; to reach the man she wanted to be with. They are about to divorce, William is ready to marry her and Darcy is killed (No change on this point. I think it was a good idea to kill him. ) and no more moral problems or guilt. 2) Sorry ,no time for another example. I have to go, it's late!
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 18, 2014 19:43:15 GMT
"Working through the red tape" means dealing with rules and regulations. When you feel like the job would be so much easier if you could just get on with doing it your way. Your English is very good! When you said "I found their love story so much interesting and so much original", we might have used the word 'very' or 'much more' instead of 'so much'. Have you seen many other episodes of MM? Thank you! I used "so much" because I wanted to say: "I found their love story so much interesting and so much original than I expected -or at least I wanted to- ships to be more positive, happier or funnier but I noticed that the writers have chosen to develop and to exagerate the ship on just one point: its dramatic aspect". I forgot a part of my sentence, OUPS! I must be distracted. And now is it better? I saw all of them... and more than once!
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 17, 2014 21:56:40 GMT
I want to let you know that I started watching MURDOCH MYSTERIES because of the good mix between plot and ship of the very first episode I saw in whole. It was "Belly speaker". It's interesting you should bring Belly Speaker up. I don't really like this episode, but I'm not sure why. I do like the type of creepy mystery - it reminded me of the X-Files. I do like that the villain got away with it! That's rare on MM! Which episode? The villain was a skillful manipulator. He managed to manipulate MURDOCH and his team as puppets!
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 17, 2014 21:33:45 GMT
Well, they've kissed an awful lot, and they couldn't do much more than that while Julia was still married, since that would be adultery. The pressing matter at the minute was whether William could accept Julia as a divorced woman even though his religion forbids it (unfortunately the episode didn't make clear what the consequences could be for him: excommunication would be one). A lustful kiss is not the way to top off a spiritual revelation. I think what the "stroll" is supposed to reveal is that William and Julia have the compatibility of marriage already, and now they are just working out the red tape. But I understand your wish to occasionally see something more desperate and passionate. I believe we got that when Julia was actually in danger (Murdoch in Toyland). Regarding the focus on investigation: the writers have to do that since not all the viewers are shippers. But I like the way they do it. William gets preoccupied by the case or needs to get out of the relieve the social pressures of the moment somehow: "Julia, would it be all right if we discuss the case...?" lol! I think that's good writer strategy. Also lol about Yannick's wife. My thought about her is precisely the opposite. Whereas single actors who might be perceived as "available" might subconsciously set up boundaries between themselves and other actors of romantic potential - thus unintentionally coming across as "cold" and "no chemistry", Yannick is already "taken". Since Yannick is married, he doesn't have to worry about boundaries: he is free to turn up the "chemistry" vibe as far as he can. His wife isn't worried about this: he's obviously a loyal husband and great father: he's built a successful career on playing romantic careers. If he lands an epic kiss, she's going to be cheering him on. She probably gave him tips on it. The "strolls" are William and Julia playing out the Victorian propriety that was expected of their generation, but the writers have certainly tried to hint that once they are out of public view all "propriety" bets are off. Ps. Regarding Twentieth Century Murdoch: I think the public kiss was out of place there, but it was done because there was a risk of that being the last episode of MM, and the writers wanted to imply William and Julia would live happily ever after. fan2tvshows, I'm interested to know if snacky's excellent synopsis has affected your opinion of the Jilliam ship? I don't know if I will change my opinion about the relationship between William and Julia. I found their love story so much interesting and so much original but I noticed that the writers have chosen to develop and to exagerate the ship on just one point: its dramatic aspect. They made it too much complicated. (Especially for the viewers who are not shippers, they should be exasperated). And that's why -I think- I was disappointed. But the next time I will watch -and surely I will- I will keep in mind this synopsis - especially Yannick BISSON's wife cheering on him or giving him tips how to kiss his partner and improve his performence on stage lol. By the way, thank you Snacky! But then again I need some explanation about one expression. What does "they are just working out the red tape" mean? To finish, I never thought the fifth season could be the last. I love discussing with you both, I learn a lot thanks to your opinion. Last question: can you tell me if my grammar is correct? I want to improve my english.
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 16, 2014 22:20:42 GMT
"Belly Speaker" is an episode I rarely re-watch. The puppet freaks me out and he is very annoying. For me the story borders on psychotic horror which is way outside my wheelhouse. It is so interesting that you fan2tvshows were able to see the broad picture of the series in that one episode. I live in Canada so I watched the series sequentially. By the time "Belly Speaker" aired, I was fully entrenched in the various subplots that run consecutively so they faded into the background because I was so put off. Again, I have to hand it to the writers if that episode can grab an new viewer and make them want to see more. For me, watching "Belly speaker" was like watching a pilot episode; except that I'm not an investor who would be ready to buy a whole serie. I mean it was built in the same way. I could see beyond the story: 1) that the scenes were filmed in a truly original setting (Toronto in Canada, the police station n° 4 and the morgue). It was very different than the american TV shows. 2) that the action took place in another century; the characters dressing a period costume with typical hairdos. I love it! 3) the calm atmosphere in which MURDOCH thought twice to solve the mystery. It was perfect to follow his reasonings. The stage was set. 4) a good presentation of the main characters. I learned a lot about them but I will just mention a few examples. - Murdoch reads very complicated books about genetics and he does during his holyday; it shows us with a touch of humour that he's very different from the others. - The fact that Arthur Conan DOYLE, the famous author of Sherlock HOLMES, wanted to write about the detective shows how he's very special. He said he wanted to know/find out how MURDOCH's mind worked. - The pathologist was a women. So I could deduce that the character of Dr OGDEN had a strong personality. - Constable CRABTREE was affraid by the puppet. It showed his tendancy to believe in paranormal activity. - Inspector BRACKENREID has always a story to tell. 5) the good cutting of the scenes and the way that they succeeded. The aim of a pilot episode is to get your attention and "Belly Speaker" got mine. But something says to me, you already know the answer; that's why I will quote anyone else but you: The answer is: Murdoch Mysteries is an exceptionally well written show strengthened by an immensely talented cast.
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 16, 2014 19:13:36 GMT
So sorry. 'Outside my wheelhouse' means that it isn't something I usually enjoy. I feel that "Belly Speaker" approaches the psychotic horror genre of storytelling, a genre I dislike very much so I avoid it. Welcome to the fanboard fan2tvshows! What part of the world are you from? Thank you for your explanation! I'm always happy to learn new english expressions. I live in France. And thank you for your welcome!
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 15, 2014 23:59:50 GMT
"Belly Speaker" is an episode I rarely re-watch. The puppet freaks me out and he is very annoying. For me the story borders on psychotic horror which is way outside my wheelhouse. It is so interesting that you fan2tvshows were able to see the broad picture of the series in that one episode. I live in Canada so I watched the series sequentially. By the time "Belly Speaker" aired, I was fully entrenched in the various subplots that run consecutively so they faded into the background because I was so put off. Again, I have to hand it to the writers if that episode can grab an new viewer and make them want to see more. Hi lovemodays! I will answer you as soon as possible but not now. It's very late. Just one thing, I'm not sure to have well understood the meaning of the expression "which is way outside my wheelhouse". Can you please use another words/make another sentence?
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 15, 2014 23:21:37 GMT
I liked the 6th season because I think Julia should have had to pay to extract herself from her marriage to Darcy. What were some of the things you didn't like about it? I perfectly understand th at the relationship between William and Julia was complicated; indeed she was still married to Darcy. Divorcing was not a simple administrative process at this time and for William, as a practising catholic, it meant that he couldn't marry her. And they both had to pay; they both made mistakes.
But I didn't like the way the writers handled all the story; the scenes succeeded without any logic.
- William and Julia kissed in public in the last episode of the fifth season. In the first episode of the sixth season, they kissed again with passion and then nothing more. Even when William said to Julia for the first time that he loves her. Indeed they just squeezed their hands and they strolled. Oh when a man that you love says to you that he loves you, you just don't shake his hand or tap his shoulder, don't you? By the way, I didn't like the way he said that he loves her. It was boring -too much of blablabla- and I had the impression that he wanted more to justify himself toward God and try to give himself a clean conscience than to declare his love to her. I would have prefered that he just said: I don't care to be damned, I love you! Even when they thought they were living their last hour. Here again, they just hold their hands and... -let me guess!- they strolled.
- Julia blamed herself and William for the murder of Darcy and she rejected him one more time in the last episode of the sixth season. Nosense. Just a bad way to save time.
- In the seventh season, they shared more romantic moments but each time William was focused on his investigations. Another trick from the writer to save time. I know Julia likes assisting William to resolve mysteries but as a woman, she surely wants to have good with the man she loves.
- After finding out who were hiding behind the threats of death against them, William and Julia were relieved. (Question: we could have expected that (a) they kissed or (b) they hold each other hand and strolled). And William waited again -I suppose it was because Yannick BISSON's wife was a guest star and so it could be delicate to fake to be intimate with another woman and it could explain why William ignored signals sent by Julia- before Julia asked him to ask her again.
The writers tried to save time -for what? I don't really know and I suppose we all think they had already waste a lot of time- in a too much awkward way than I was very disappointed and now I don't care about their relationship anymore and I will be more focused on the mysteries and the almost-friendship between George and Henry. Humour is another reason that I watch MURDOCH MYSTERIES.
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 15, 2014 20:13:29 GMT
Haha, I think that's the first time I've ever heard someone say a detective show didn't spend *enough* time on shipping! XD Thanks so much for that picture! At last a spy has come! Too bad we can't see if there are any crutches there! XD I want to let you know that I started watching MURDOCH MYSTERIES because of the good mix between plot and ship of the very first episode I saw in whole. It was "Belly speaker". The suspect had one blue eye and one dark eye so I was spending my time to be sure that they are not subsequently reversed; a way for me of testing the adequacy and the credibility of one TV show. (However I think that there is a mistake in the reasoning during the reconstitution of the crime but it doesn't matter anymore). And I loved the desperate and successive attempts of MURDOCH to keep Arthur Conan DOYLE far away from Julia. It was so cute and funny. Moreover Julia was perfectly aware that he was jealous and she was very flattered. And also because of Constable -CRABEE or CRATREE,lol- CRABTREE of course and Inspector BRACKENREID. In conclusion, I hooked. I think he will be ok, he is very strong and stubborn. We all know that BRACKENREID is able to take punches and to be back on his feet.
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 15, 2014 2:31:03 GMT
But it's also true that writers can go overboard with fan service and force romantic moments, and whole relationships, where there should be none. I don't think MM is guilty of this at all regarding William/Julia, and I think their only mistake with George/Emily was going that direction in the first place (though I love both characters individually!). I love MURDOCH MYSTERIES for a lot of reasons. The plots/mysteries are very well writen/done (however I don't like very much conspiracies of spies and political games; they often don't let much time for ships) and I'm very interested by the ships and especially by the relationship between William and Julia. According to me, the writers did a good work; they have been able to strike a right balance between mysteries and ships. But since the sixth seaseon, I was somehow disappointed about the quality and the timing of the William/Julia ships. The writers should not force romantic moments between them and sometimes I expected for some but they never happened; I think that the chemestry between them was spoiled. About the plots of the seventh season, I think that maybe writers ran out of original ideas for some episodes and made some mistakes for others. (For example, MURDOCH fell down from a hight of about 7/8 meters and he was up without a scratch). And I agree with you, I don't want a love story between George and Emily. I would have prefered that she acts more like she did in the beginning when she infuriated the detective MURDOCH; it was funny. BRACKENREID (I hope to see him in the next season and I'm not worry, I think we will. Zoom on the left of this picture: ow.ly/i/5MpqR/original), his wife, CRABTREE, HIGGINS are also the reason that I watch this tv show.
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Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 15, 2014 0:27:51 GMT
Someone told me there were some Julia/Darcy shipper vids on YouTube but I have yet to find them. Please let me know if you spot one. I want to start a MM video organization/categorization project. A long time ago, I stumbled upon one video about Julia and Darcy (... and William) just because of the song which has been chosen. It was a song that I wanted to hear so I searched it on YouTube. But I wouldn't say that it shows the good side of Darcy but the opposite. You will find the link below to see it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-k4r7JaIMM
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