|
Post by snacky on Jun 12, 2014 7:16:04 GMT
I often see the criticism that too many ship scenes "ruin" the show, or are unfair to fans who just want a good mystery. I do have some sympathy for their cause because I have seen writers err too far toward fan service and start phoning in what should be the most important part of the show before. But I also think those who grumble about "too much soap opera" underestimate the importance of character development, including personal relationships, in engaging and building the audience over time.
Since there are no new episodes of MM being made right now, I often watch reruns at night. I regard all MM episodes as high quality and re-watchable. If a friend came over, and I were introducing MM to them, I'd watch every single episode again.
However, in terms of the episodes I select to watch over and over and over and over again, I see a definite pattern. I don't choose the episodes on the basis of their mystery plots: after all, I already know the solution to the mystery. Instead I select strongly personal episodes that made a contribution to character development. I choose episodes where William is struggling with some intense personal obstacle, where he reaches some deep insight, or which serve as a milestone in his relationship with Julia. This is why The Murdoch Identity is still one of my favorites: it reveals a lot about the "raw" William before he was "cooked" into the very model of a Victorian public servant.
So, my question to those who complain about "too many ship scenes" is: do you watch episodes repeatedly? Tell the truth, now. If you do, what are the criteria you use to select them? If you don't watch episodes repeatedly, are you as strongly invested in MM and the direction of ongoing character development as the people who do?
|
|
|
Post by jeff0253 on Jun 14, 2014 1:14:01 GMT
Even when reading Sherlock Holmes stories, I've always liked the little domestic details about Mrs. Hudson, the shag tobacco, etc. more than the mysteries themselves. So I really love MM-the characters are much more interesting because of the ship story arcs. I'm just now starting season 6, and I must say I found it impossible not to like D'Arcy--I think it was clever of the writers not to make him into another detestable enemy for William. Of course, I'm not to the end of the season yet, so perhaps D'Arcy will change.
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jun 14, 2014 3:00:54 GMT
Even when reading Sherlock Holmes stories, I've always liked the little domestic details about Mrs. Hudson, the shag tobacco, etc. more than the mysteries themselves. So I really love MM-the characters are much more interesting because of the ship story arcs. I'm just now starting season 6, and I must say I found it impossible not to like D'Arcy--I think it was clever of the writers not to make him into another detestable enemy for William. Of course, I'm not to the end of the season yet, so perhaps D'Arcy will change. I love the way you put that "domestic details". I think telling detail is, in general, the bedrock of the writer's craft. What the personal bits contribute should never be underestimated. But it's also true that writers can go overboard with fan service and force romantic moments, and whole relationships, where there should be none. I don't think MM is guilty of this at all regarding William/Julia, and I think their only mistake with George/Emily was going that direction in the first place (though I love both characters individually!). D'Arcy, lol - so Three Musketeers. I'm pretty sure it's just the plain old English Darcy. I totally agree about Darcy's characterization, though the writer's did give infuriated shippers a bit of "fan service" on that front toward the end of Season 6. You'll see what I mean. In Season 7, Darcy's brother also shows up, and he's just as frustratingly (for William and George) likable as his brother. Someone told me there were some Julia/Darcy shipper vids on YouTube but I have yet to find them. Please let me know if you spot one. I want to start a MM video organization/categorization project.
|
|
|
Post by jeff0253 on Jun 14, 2014 14:28:39 GMT
"Darcy it is--alas, I took too many French lessons! I'll keep an eye out for shipper vids!
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jun 14, 2014 18:15:01 GMT
"Darcy it is--alas, I took too many French lessons! I'll keep an eye out for shipper vids! D'arcy sounds so sexy. If he had been Monsieur D'arcy, I might have had to change ships!
|
|
|
Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 15, 2014 0:27:51 GMT
Someone told me there were some Julia/Darcy shipper vids on YouTube but I have yet to find them. Please let me know if you spot one. I want to start a MM video organization/categorization project. A long time ago, I stumbled upon one video about Julia and Darcy (... and William) just because of the song which has been chosen. It was a song that I wanted to hear so I searched it on YouTube. But I wouldn't say that it shows the good side of Darcy but the opposite. You will find the link below to see it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-k4r7JaIMM
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jun 15, 2014 0:30:58 GMT
Someone told me there were some Julia/Darcy shipper vids on YouTube but I have yet to find them. Please let me know if you spot one. I want to start a MM video organization/categorization project. A long time ago, I stumbled upon one video about Julia and Darcy (... and William) just because of the song which has been chosen. It was a song that I wanted to hear so I searched it on YouTube. But I wouldn't say that it shows the good side of Darcy but the opposite. You will find the link below to see it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-k4r7JaIMMOooh, I've seen that one. It didn't jump to mind because I don't like that type of song. But I agree that Darcy is an "interlocutor" rather than a nemesis in that one. I'll keep it in mind if I can get my video guide project off the ground. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 15, 2014 2:31:03 GMT
But it's also true that writers can go overboard with fan service and force romantic moments, and whole relationships, where there should be none. I don't think MM is guilty of this at all regarding William/Julia, and I think their only mistake with George/Emily was going that direction in the first place (though I love both characters individually!). I love MURDOCH MYSTERIES for a lot of reasons. The plots/mysteries are very well writen/done (however I don't like very much conspiracies of spies and political games; they often don't let much time for ships) and I'm very interested by the ships and especially by the relationship between William and Julia. According to me, the writers did a good work; they have been able to strike a right balance between mysteries and ships. But since the sixth seaseon, I was somehow disappointed about the quality and the timing of the William/Julia ships. The writers should not force romantic moments between them and sometimes I expected for some but they never happened; I think that the chemestry between them was spoiled. About the plots of the seventh season, I think that maybe writers ran out of original ideas for some episodes and made some mistakes for others. (For example, MURDOCH fell down from a hight of about 7/8 meters and he was up without a scratch). And I agree with you, I don't want a love story between George and Emily. I would have prefered that she acts more like she did in the beginning when she infuriated the detective MURDOCH; it was funny. BRACKENREID (I hope to see him in the next season and I'm not worry, I think we will. Zoom on the left of this picture: ow.ly/i/5MpqR/original), his wife, CRABTREE, HIGGINS are also the reason that I watch this tv show.
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jun 15, 2014 2:40:23 GMT
I love MURDOCH MYSTERIES for a lot of reasons. The plots/mysteries are very well writen/done (however I don't like very much conspiracies of spies and political games; they often don't let much time for ships) But since the sixth seaseon, I was somehow disappointed about the quality and the timing of the William/Julia ships. The writers should not force romantic moments between them and sometimes I expected for some but they never happened; I think that the chemestry between them was spoiled. BRACKENREID (I hope to see him in the next season and I'm not worry, I think we will. Zoom on the left of this picture: ow.ly/i/5MpqR/original), his wife, CRABTREE, HIGGINS are also the reason that I watch this tv show. Haha, I think that's the first time I've ever heard someone say a detective show didn't spend *enough* time on shipping! XD I liked the 6th season because I think Julia should have had to pay to extract herself from her marriage to Darcy. What were some of the things you didn't like about it? Thanks so much for that picture! At last a spy has come! Too bad we can't see if there are any crutches there! XD
|
|
|
Post by lovemondays on Jun 15, 2014 16:38:28 GMT
I've been mulling this one for a bit. What is really surprising is that I'm not a particular fan of mysteries as a genre. I don't read Agatha Christie, Arthur Conan Doyle or any other true mystery writers. Don't watch any of those shows for that matter. I am however, a fan of true crime. I love watching the workings of William's mind unfold the puzzle. Like snacky I return over and over to the episodes that push character development, though not necessarily shipping.
So how then does a program appeal to both true mystery aficionados, a plot driven format, and to those of us who are drawn to character driven stories? The answer is: Murdoch Mysteries is an exceptionally well written show strengthened by an immensely talented cast.
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jun 15, 2014 17:10:24 GMT
I've been mulling this one for a bit. What is really surprising is that I'm not a particular fan of mysteries as a genre. I don't read Agatha Christie, Arthur Conan Doyle or any other true mystery writers. Don't watch any of those shows for that matter. I am however, a fan of true crime. I love watching the workings of William's mind unfold the puzzle. Like snacky I return over and over to the episodes that push character development, though not necessarily shipping. So how then does a program appeal to both true mystery aficionados, a plot driven format, and to those of us who are drawn to character driven stories? The answer is: Murdoch Mysteries is an exceptionally well written show strengthened by an immensely talented cast. I'm only a fan of mysteries as a genre of another genre, usually period pieces. The only mysteries I read are historical mysteries set in certain periods. On TV I watch some mysteries and police procedurals, but some other element has to attract me first: usually historical or science fiction setting, but I also like conspiracy (which I guess is a form of alternative history). Most "reality" settings bore me. I do tend to prefer U.S. or Canadian made shows because I'm habituated to certain elements of pacing and production design. As you can imagine, I don't watch a lot of TV because it's hard to fit my specs. XD Anyway, there is one thing I like mysteries: they provide a given story structure so that the writers can tell stories about a given set of characters forever if they want. Most other successful scripted TV show formats are really mysteries if you look at them closely. Medical drama? What caused the illness. Soap opera? When will the skeleton in the closet be revealed. So the mysteries provide the fuel that allow the continuity for that character develoment to happen. But it's a lucky bonus that the combination of elements can also bring in several type of fans. (Who then bicker over how much time is being allocated to their favored element). But in the end it takes all the elements working together for the show to succeed: driven by excellent writing and the talented cast, of course.
|
|
|
Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 15, 2014 20:13:29 GMT
Haha, I think that's the first time I've ever heard someone say a detective show didn't spend *enough* time on shipping! XD Thanks so much for that picture! At last a spy has come! Too bad we can't see if there are any crutches there! XD I want to let you know that I started watching MURDOCH MYSTERIES because of the good mix between plot and ship of the very first episode I saw in whole. It was "Belly speaker". The suspect had one blue eye and one dark eye so I was spending my time to be sure that they are not subsequently reversed; a way for me of testing the adequacy and the credibility of one TV show. (However I think that there is a mistake in the reasoning during the reconstitution of the crime but it doesn't matter anymore). And I loved the desperate and successive attempts of MURDOCH to keep Arthur Conan DOYLE far away from Julia. It was so cute and funny. Moreover Julia was perfectly aware that he was jealous and she was very flattered. And also because of Constable -CRABEE or CRATREE,lol- CRABTREE of course and Inspector BRACKENREID. In conclusion, I hooked. I think he will be ok, he is very strong and stubborn. We all know that BRACKENREID is able to take punches and to be back on his feet.
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jun 15, 2014 20:41:58 GMT
I want to let you know that I started watching MURDOCH MYSTERIES because of the good mix between plot and ship of the very first episode I saw in whole. It was "Belly speaker". The suspect had one blue eye and one dark eye so I was spending my time to be sure that they are not subsequently reversed; a way for me of testing the adequacy and the credibility of one TV show. (However I think that there is a mistake in the reasoning during the reconstitution of the crime but it doesn't matter anymore). It's interesting you should bring Belly Speaker up. I don't really like this episode, but I'm not sure why. I do like the type of creepy mystery - it reminded me of the X-Files. I initially had to watch it a couple of times just to work out what exactly had happened to the brothers and when. I think the timing of the photo bothered me. There was also some flaw in the logic that bothered me - I can't remember what it was - perhaps that's why I don't like this episode as much. I do like that the villain got away with it! That's rare on MM!
|
|
|
Post by lovemondays on Jun 15, 2014 22:20:29 GMT
"Belly Speaker" is an episode I rarely re-watch. The puppet freaks me out and he is very annoying. For me the story borders on psychotic horror which is way outside my wheelhouse. It is so interesting that you fan2tvshows were able to see the broad picture of the series in that one episode. I live in Canada so I watched the series sequentially. By the time "Belly Speaker" aired, I was fully entrenched in the various subplots that run consecutively so they faded into the background because I was so put off. Again, I have to hand it to the writers if that episode can grab an new viewer and make them want to see more.
|
|
|
Post by fan2tvshows on Jun 15, 2014 23:21:37 GMT
I liked the 6th season because I think Julia should have had to pay to extract herself from her marriage to Darcy. What were some of the things you didn't like about it? I perfectly understand th at the relationship between William and Julia was complicated; indeed she was still married to Darcy. Divorcing was not a simple administrative process at this time and for William, as a practising catholic, it meant that he couldn't marry her. And they both had to pay; they both made mistakes.
But I didn't like the way the writers handled all the story; the scenes succeeded without any logic.
- William and Julia kissed in public in the last episode of the fifth season. In the first episode of the sixth season, they kissed again with passion and then nothing more. Even when William said to Julia for the first time that he loves her. Indeed they just squeezed their hands and they strolled. Oh when a man that you love says to you that he loves you, you just don't shake his hand or tap his shoulder, don't you? By the way, I didn't like the way he said that he loves her. It was boring -too much of blablabla- and I had the impression that he wanted more to justify himself toward God and try to give himself a clean conscience than to declare his love to her. I would have prefered that he just said: I don't care to be damned, I love you! Even when they thought they were living their last hour. Here again, they just hold their hands and... -let me guess!- they strolled.
- Julia blamed herself and William for the murder of Darcy and she rejected him one more time in the last episode of the sixth season. Nosense. Just a bad way to save time.
- In the seventh season, they shared more romantic moments but each time William was focused on his investigations. Another trick from the writer to save time. I know Julia likes assisting William to resolve mysteries but as a woman, she surely wants to have good with the man she loves.
- After finding out who were hiding behind the threats of death against them, William and Julia were relieved. (Question: we could have expected that (a) they kissed or (b) they hold each other hand and strolled). And William waited again -I suppose it was because Yannick BISSON's wife was a guest star and so it could be delicate to fake to be intimate with another woman and it could explain why William ignored signals sent by Julia- before Julia asked him to ask her again.
The writers tried to save time -for what? I don't really know and I suppose we all think they had already waste a lot of time- in a too much awkward way than I was very disappointed and now I don't care about their relationship anymore and I will be more focused on the mysteries and the almost-friendship between George and Henry. Humour is another reason that I watch MURDOCH MYSTERIES.
|
|