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Post by Hodge on Feb 14, 2015 21:43:37 GMT
No he would not have stopped the wedding. It was a matter of honour because he told Darcy that he wouldn't interfere. I would argue that it is that same sense of honour, in this case to the truth, if violated by removing Julia's fingermark, would break his soul. Luckily he didn't have to make that choice. You know, I'm sitting here thinking we're talking about these people as if they're real. What a show to have characters that are so deep and multidimentional that we can discuss them to kingdom come! |
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Post by lovemondays on Feb 14, 2015 21:47:15 GMT
Luckily he didn't have to make that choice. You know, I'm sitting here thinking we're talking about these people as if they're real. What a show to have characters that are so deep and multidimentional that we can discuss them to kingdom come! I know. That is what I LOVE MOST about this show. Maybe that is part of why we get mad at the writers. We've followed the character's development in a straight line with our own, single perspective. MM has so many different writers and directors, for that matter, who come and go that they seem to veer off course to us. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 14, 2015 21:50:29 GMT
You know, I'm sitting here thinking we're talking about these people as if they're real. What a show to have characters that are so deep and multidimentional that we can discuss them to kingdom come! I know. That is what I LOVE MOST about this show. Maybe that is part of why we get mad at the writers. We've followed the character's development in a straight line with our own, single perspective. MM has so many different writers and directors, for that matter, who come and go that they seem to veer off course to us. I suspect that may be part of the problem this season. On the whole I've enjoyed the eps but the characterizations seem to be little off at times. |
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Post by lovemondays on Feb 14, 2015 21:53:41 GMT
I know. That is what I LOVE MOST about this show. Maybe that is part of why we get mad at the writers. We've followed the character's development in a straight line with our own, single perspective. MM has so many different writers and directors, for that matter, who come and go that they seem to veer off course to us. I suspect that may be part of the problem this season. On the whole I've enjoyed the eps but the characterizations seem to be little off at times. Especially the part about our two lovebirds who've taken EIGHT YEARS to finally marry and there's practically nothing for us to chew on except the lack of... |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 14, 2015 21:56:14 GMT
I suspect that may be part of the problem this season. On the whole I've enjoyed the eps but the characterizations seem to be little off at times. Especially the part about our two lovebirds who've taken EIGHT YEARS to finally marry and there's practically nothing for us to chew on except the lack of... YES! So out of character especially after S7 where they were so playful. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 14, 2015 22:03:07 GMT
Especially the part about our two lovebirds who've taken EIGHT YEARS to finally marry and there's practically nothing for us to chew on except the lack of... YES! So out of character especially after S7 where they were so playful. I've just compared this seasons writers so far to S7 and surpisingly they all wrote at least one ep from S7 so as it's not different writers where does this change of character come from? |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 14, 2015 22:04:02 GMT
Especially the part about our two lovebirds who've taken EIGHT YEARS to finally marry and there's practically nothing for us to chew on except the lack of... YES! So out of character especially after S7 where they were so playful. Precisely! I think we're noticing that up through episode 9, there was an attraction and playfulness between them (what episodes/scenes) we had Julia in, but now, yes, they're married, but they're acting like roommates as Hodge said somewhere. I think that's a good description. I'm hoping this is deliberate, and is leading to a characterization arc of some sort. However, if this continues into season 9, well, that's not good, and seriously calls into question the future of the show. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 14, 2015 22:15:09 GMT
YES! So out of character especially after S7 where they were so playful. Precisely! I think we're noticing that up through episode 9, there was an attraction and playfulness between them (what episodes/scenes) we had Julia in, but now, yes, they're married, but they're acting like roommates as Hodge said somewhere. I think that's a good description. I'm hoping this is deliberate, and is leading to a characterization arc of some sort. However, if this continues into season 9, well, that's not good, and seriously calls into question the future of the show. I may have attributed this to PM at one point however I think it was Christina Jennings at the FanExpo panel that said something about keeping them apart. I've just rewatched the 100th ep panel where PM is talking about the wedding and he says Helene and Yannick will be doing plenty of interacting between now and the end of the season. I wonder if this was a slip as he should have said Ogden and Murdoch, I'm sure Helene and Yannick do interact a lot but it seems that Julia and William don't. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 22:54:32 GMT
I agree William would have erased the fingermarks, but this would have twisted his conscience like Giles. It's also possible Julia would have died or left resenting him anyway. I agree that William would have erased the fingermarks but having done that his personal penance would have been to deny himself marriage to her. Aw. Man, glad I'm not in the alternative universe where the writers went that route. "Wheeee, another marriage avoidance tactic! William's bad conscience over wiping the fingermarks!"  |
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 23:07:48 GMT
I agree that William would have erased the fingermarks but having done that his personal penance would have been to deny himself marriage to her. Oh, I think he would go that far lovemondays, after all Julia would have had a say in it too. It would definitely have weighed heavy on his conscience but I'm not sure he could have made that much of a sacrifice after all they'd been through to be together. I don't think he would have consulted Julia. Once he asked, she wouldn't have wanted him to have it on his conscience: she would have said no. But she needed him to do it. So I think he would have made the decision to go ahead - and then she would have been angry he did it without consulting her (because later he would be psychologically messed up over doing it...). |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 14, 2015 23:13:40 GMT
Oh, I think he would go that far lovemondays, after all Julia would have had a say in it too. It would definitely have weighed heavy on his conscience but I'm not sure he could have made that much of a sacrifice after all they'd been through to be together. I don't think he would have consulted Julia. Once he asked, she wouldn't have wanted him to have it on his conscience: she would have said no. But she needed him to do it. So I think he would have made the decision to go ahead - and then she would have been angry he did it without consulting her (because later he would be psychologically messed up over doing it...). I wasn't as clear as I should have been, I didn't mean Julia would have a say in the erasing of the fingermarks, rather that she would have a say in whether they should marry if he had. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 23:21:35 GMT
Yes he put himself through the wringer but he'd already decided he'd lost Julia, do you honestly think he'd turn up at the church to stop the wedding even if he'd not released Ava Moon? No he would not have stopped the wedding. It was a matter of honour because he told Darcy that he wouldn't interfere. I would argue that it is that same sense of honour, in this case to the truth, if violated by removing Julia's fingermark, would break his soul. While it was a factor, I don't think "honor" was the final deciding point for William in failing to stop Julia's wedding. Similarly, I don't think the ethics of the issue was the deciding point for wiping the fingermarks on the bullet casings. Ethics was certainly a factor, and William was probably taking into account how it would weigh on his soul before there was a knock on the door - but I think he would have done it in the end. And after he did it, it would have haunted him. And probably destroyed his life. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 23:23:21 GMT
Luckily he didn't have to make that choice. You know, I'm sitting here thinking we're talking about these people as if they're real. What a show to have characters that are so deep and multidimentional that we can discuss them to kingdom come! Sadly this kind of discussion seems to be prompted mostly by events in earlier seasons, though. I'd like to see more moral dilemmas to chew over.  |
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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 23:27:00 GMT
You know, I'm sitting here thinking we're talking about these people as if they're real. What a show to have characters that are so deep and multidimentional that we can discuss them to kingdom come! I know. That is what I LOVE MOST about this show. Maybe that is part of why we get mad at the writers. We've followed the character's development in a straight line with our own, single perspective. MM has so many different writers and directors, for that matter, who come and go that they seem to veer off course to us. PM mentioned that writers had different storylines going on in their heads, re: as to whether William was a virgin or not. This is kind of a dangerous practice. You want some ambiguity so viewers will have issues to discuss. However you want enough consistency so that there won't be any conflicts as viewers put their various daisy chains together. This is why they need to keep a good show bible, and a show CHAPLAIN with an evangelical streak in the room reminding them when they are about to blaspheme. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 14, 2015 23:40:14 GMT
I know. That is what I LOVE MOST about this show. Maybe that is part of why we get mad at the writers. We've followed the character's development in a straight line with our own, single perspective. MM has so many different writers and directors, for that matter, who come and go that they seem to veer off course to us. PM mentioned that writers had different storylines going on in their heads, re: as to whether William was a virgin or not. This is kind of a dangerous practice. You want some ambiguity so viewers will have issues to discuss. However you want enough consistency so that there won't be any conflicts as viewers put their various daisy chains together. This is why they need to keep a good show bible, and a show CHAPLAIN with an evangelical streak in the room reminding them when they are about to blaspheme. I'd volunteer for that job! |
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Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT