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Post by snacky on Feb 14, 2015 23:52:44 GMT
YES! So out of character especially after S7 where they were so playful. Precisely! I think we're noticing that up through episode 9, there was an attraction and playfulness between them (what episodes/scenes) we had Julia in, but now, yes, they're married, but they're acting like roommates as Hodge said somewhere. I think that's a good description. I'm hoping this is deliberate, and is leading to a characterization arc of some sort. However, if this continues into season 9, well, that's not good, and seriously calls into question the future of the show. It might have something to do with the way the eps changed order. I remember in the past PM said they wanted to minimize "arcs" so the eps could be interchangeable - which is somehow easier for the syndication market. A relationship arc is linear and makes it impossible to switch things around. Maybe this season they were testing whether the episodes could be interchangeable. For that they can have shippy fan service scenes, but nothing that implies developments in their relationship or a character arc. I agree this is a mistake. In another post I pointed out this show is not Law and Order. The syndicated episodes with the shippy bits extracted are just some cheap PBS-esque mystery show, when we have plenty of more expensive, glossier American shows that can go in that time slot. I'll be surprised if MM can build an American following at all. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 15, 2015 0:01:56 GMT
Yes he put himself through the wringer but he'd already decided he'd lost Julia, do you honestly think he'd turn up at the church to stop the wedding even if he'd not released Ava Moon? No he would not have stopped the wedding. It was a matter of honour because he told Darcy that he wouldn't interfere. I would argue that it is that same sense of honour, in this case to the truth, if violated by removing Julia's fingermark, would break his soul. We'll never know because he didn't get to make that choice, but what does it say about William that he potentially valued his word as a gentleman over the love of his life? I like to think he would have if he could have-he got an invitation from Julia to save her if he still had feelings for her. I think it would have pained him to go back on his word, but his word was worth sacrificing the woman he loves to a marriage that is second choice to him? If I'd found that out, I would have felt beyond betrayed-and I don't know that I could have forgiven him. Good for William that Julia never found that out... I tried to to deal with that in my fic, but I'm still second guessing myself. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 15, 2015 0:13:21 GMT
Precisely! I think we're noticing that up through episode 9, there was an attraction and playfulness between them (what episodes/scenes) we had Julia in, but now, yes, they're married, but they're acting like roommates as Hodge said somewhere. I think that's a good description. I'm hoping this is deliberate, and is leading to a characterization arc of some sort. However, if this continues into season 9, well, that's not good, and seriously calls into question the future of the show. It might have something to do with the way the eps changed order. I remember in the past PM said they wanted to minimize "arcs" so the eps could be interchangeable - which is somehow easier for the syndication market. A relationship arc is linear and makes it impossible to switch things around. Maybe this season they were testing whether the episodes could be interchangeable. For that they can have shippy fan service scenes, but nothing that implies developments in their relationship or a character arc. I agree this is a mistake. In another post I pointed out this show is not Law and Order. The syndicated episodes with the shippy bits extracted are just some cheap PBS-esque mystery show, when we have plenty of more expensive, glossier American shows that can go in that time slot. I'll be surprised if MM can build an American following at all. Wow...if that's what they're trying to do, then that is a massive mistake. This show has become successful based upon its characters-it's not a generic Law and Order type show. I like the mysteries, but they come and go. I stay for the characters, and I think that's why most of you are here as well. We may think the clothes are pretty, the historical details interesting, etc., but the characterization is the glue that holds the show together. I think Hodge is right in that characterization is off this season, which is what is alarming to us. If this was deliberate, then I hope it was an experiment that is abandoned after this season. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 15, 2015 0:29:10 GMT
It might have something to do with the way the eps changed order. I remember in the past PM said they wanted to minimize "arcs" so the eps could be interchangeable - which is somehow easier for the syndication market. A relationship arc is linear and makes it impossible to switch things around. Maybe this season they were testing whether the episodes could be interchangeable. For that they can have shippy fan service scenes, but nothing that implies developments in their relationship or a character arc. I agree this is a mistake. In another post I pointed out this show is not Law and Order. The syndicated episodes with the shippy bits extracted are just some cheap PBS-esque mystery show, when we have plenty of more expensive, glossier American shows that can go in that time slot. I'll be surprised if MM can build an American following at all. Wow...if that's what they're trying to do, then that is a massive mistake. This show has become successful based upon its characters-it's not a generic Law and Order type show. I like the mysteries, but they come and go. I stay for the characters, and I think that's why most of you are here as well. We may think the clothes are pretty, the historical details interesting, etc., but the characterization is the glue that holds the show together. I think Hodge is right in that characterization is off this season, which is what is alarming to us. If this was deliberate, then I hope it was an experiment that is abandoned after this season. I hope this isn't what they're trying. To sacrifice the formula that's made the show so successful just for easier syndication will spell the end of the show. Syndication isn't everything. Isn't it just the US that's really into syndication? Why sacrifice the rest of the world just to get it on US TV? It's done very well without the US. Sorry snacky! |
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Post by snacky on Feb 15, 2015 0:33:02 GMT
I don't think he would have consulted Julia. Once he asked, she wouldn't have wanted him to have it on his conscience: she would have said no. But she needed him to do it. So I think he would have made the decision to go ahead - and then she would have been angry he did it without consulting her (because later he would be psychologically messed up over doing it...). I wasn't as clear as I should have been, I didn't mean Julia would have a say in the erasing of the fingermarks, rather that she would have a say in whether they should marry if he had. I could see the shoe being on the other foot with Julia pursuing William to marry her then. They might even get married. But William would be so haunted about whether Julia had actually killed Darcy and whether he had abetted a miscarriage of justice that the marriage would soon fall apart... |
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Post by snacky on Feb 15, 2015 0:35:19 GMT
No he would not have stopped the wedding. It was a matter of honour because he told Darcy that he wouldn't interfere. I would argue that it is that same sense of honour, in this case to the truth, if violated by removing Julia's fingermark, would break his soul. We'll never know because he didn't get to make that choice, but what does it say about William that he potentially valued his word as a gentleman over the love of his life? I like to think he would have if he could have-he got an invitation from Julia to save her if he still had feelings for her. I think it would have pained him to go back on his word, but his word was worth sacrificing the woman he loves to a marriage that is second choice to him? If I'd found that out, I would have felt beyond betrayed-and I don't know that I could have forgiven him. Good for William that Julia never found that out... I tried to to deal with that in my fic, but I'm still second guessing myself. That's why I think William's word to Darcy would have only been a minor factor in a complex decision. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 15, 2015 0:48:45 GMT
I hope this isn't what they're trying. To sacrifice the formula that's made the show so successful just for easier syndication will spell the end of the show. Syndication isn't everything. Isn't it just the US that's really into syndication? Why sacrifice the rest of the world just to get it on US TV? It's done very well without the US. Sorry snacky! Don't apologize to me - I hate what they are doing with the syndicated version in the US! And I don't think the run will really last very long if they show versions edited like this. |
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Post by lovemondays on Feb 15, 2015 0:55:13 GMT
PM mentioned that writers had different storylines going on in their heads, re: as to whether William was a virgin or not. This is kind of a dangerous practice. You want some ambiguity so viewers will have issues to discuss. However you want enough consistency so that there won't be any conflicts as viewers put their various daisy chains together. This is why they need to keep a good show bible, and a show CHAPLAIN with an evangelical streak in the room reminding them when they are about to blaspheme. I'd volunteer for that job! The super geeky guidebook would help! |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 15, 2015 1:04:24 GMT
I'd volunteer for that job! The super geeky guidebook would help! It sure would, I hope it comes off. |
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