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Post by snacky on Jan 29, 2015 2:22:09 GMT
In the Devil Wears Whalebone thread someone pointed out that one of the best functions of Lillian Moss is she creates a mirror for Emily and throws her character more sharply in relief. After 3 seasons of blase, Emily's character is suddenly intriguing. The exacting perfectionist is yearning for a secret life. Wow - pops off the screen more than those noir gorgeous medical examiner shots! The threat Lillian's radicalism presents to Emily's professional "game rules" is palpable. Furthermore, Lillian has been hinting she sees Emily as a partner in sapphism, and Emily can't resist exploring the unknown...  |
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Post by snacky on Jan 29, 2015 2:41:46 GMT
Regarding Lillian, a number of people were put off by the establishment of her character - her rudeness to Julia, her preference for radical property-damaging tactics, her inattention to the woman who died in the corset shop. IMHO, all these elements are subject to character interpretation, and this character has really brought out how important a person's situation is to interpretation - and it seems to me characters of same gender identity as the person interpreting them get harsher treatment.
I do suspect my more "excusing" view of Lillian comes from being in an environment that validates radical protest - this was something unpredictable in US history so Lillian just lucked out that way! 
I ALSO wanted to point out how nervously happy Lillian looked in the uncorseting scene of Devil Wears Whalebone. And Emily looked breathless and determined too. That was great acting. People who have been bagging on Lillian shouldn't turn a blind eye to that.
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Post by snacky on Jan 29, 2015 3:09:29 GMT
One more on Lillian Moss - I thought that last uncorseting shot was great - especially for the expressions on both Lillian's and Emily's faces. I thought it was as redemptive for Lillian as liberating for Emily. It meant Emily is also Lillian's chance for change, even though she probably isn't going to take it.
That shot was interesting enough that I kept thinking about it and probably would have been prompted to write some fic based on it even though that's not my natural pairing. If there are viewers from the LGBT community, though, I bet this triggers their creativity.
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Post by snacky on Jan 29, 2015 3:40:36 GMT
One more comment - I thougjt Emily and Lillian were ALREADY getting it on according to venerable TV innuendo tradition. Sort of disappointed to find out they weren't yet. If the writers have dire plans for Lillian, that means MM won't have very much time to exploit the #crumpet-worthy edgy.
Speaking of which, it looks like no one has picked up the phone yet regarding US entertainment reviews. Since Downton Abbey got the gossip mill running on this same point, it makes me wonder where the PR breakdown is.
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Post by monty151 on Jan 29, 2015 7:34:01 GMT
Was it illegal for Emily and Lillian to be together. I may be rembering wrong but I thought it was only illegal for men. Something about Queen Victoria not believing that lesbians existed so it was never illegal.
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Post by lizmc on Jan 29, 2015 7:40:14 GMT
Was it illegal for Emily and Lillian to be together. I may be rembering wrong but I thought it was only illegal for men. Something about Queen Victoria not believing that lesbians existed so it was never illegal. You are correct. There were no laws in regard to lesbian sexual relationships for that very reason.
Cheers
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Post by snacky on Jan 29, 2015 7:46:59 GMT
Was it illegal for Emily and Lillian to be together. I may be rembering wrong but I thought it was only illegal for men. Something about Queen Victoria not believing that lesbians existed so it was never illegal. I seem to remember some criminal cases related to women behaving immorally with each other, including some high profile sensation-causing ones. But I also remember it being blown off as it not being a serious thing - more along the lines of female over-indulgence in companionship than the Biblical sin of sodomy. But then some of the testimony in court cases would cause people to collectively "wtf?". |
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Post by snacky on Jan 29, 2015 7:56:13 GMT
Was it illegal for Emily and Lillian to be together. I may be rembering wrong but I thought it was only illegal for men. Something about Queen Victoria not believing that lesbians existed so it was never illegal. You are correct. There were no laws in regard to lesbian sexual relationships for that very reason.
Cheers
It might even have been quite common on the down low. Boston Marriage: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_marriage1810 - can cause scandal if you're not discreet. www.scotsman.com/news/keira-knightley-revives-lesbian-scandal-that-rocked-scottish-society-1-14990811901- The first documented same-sex marriage in Spain in post-Roman times is performed. Marcela Gracia Ibeas and Elisa Sanchez Loriga were married by a parish priest in A Coruña (Galicia), with Elisa using the male identity "Mario Sánchez" Radclyffe Hall - seems to have lived rather openly: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radclyffe_Hall(Lesbian "mental illness" threat by 1928, clearly grouped with male homosexuality: www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/jan/02/books.gayrights - attempt to criminalize lesbianism in 1921 had failed because of fear of drawing in "innocents" vk.com/topic-2572869_4024254 - methinks daughters of the aristocracy who picked up this "vice" in school like famous lesbian Vita Sackville-West ) French Lesbian Clubs: www.english.rfi.fr/visiting-france/20110113-lifting-veil-pariss-lesbian-cafe-society(But *writing* about lesbian sex was illegal) Maud Allan - Libel suit for being called a lesbian (implied damage to rep) - lost. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maud_AllanWhile I don't have a good link yet, some of the scanning I'm doing suggests that lesbianism was being defined by psychiatry as a "perversion" at this time. It definitely was by 1913. Radclyffe hall described herself as a "sexual invert". I saw another review for a book that was making the general argument the "heterosexuality" wasn't specifically defined until the the 19th century when the emerging field of psychiatry and Darwinian brain "science" started defining all the deviations from the "norm". Alice Mitchell - 1892 murderer who kicked off idea of lesbians as insane, masculine, and murderous. This is before MM, so the awareness of a "criminalized lesbianism" had already begun: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_MitchellHaha...blamed on French writers! I do remember something about a French case involving school girls...?  According to Wikipedia...RED EMMA! 1910 – Emma Goldman first begins speaking publicly in favor of homosexual rights. Magnus Hirschfeld later wrote "she was the first and only woman, indeed the first and only American, to take up the defense of homosexual love before the general public. Book "Lesbian Scandal and the Culture of Modernity" gives the Bloomsbury group's "frank sex talk" credit for breaking Victorian Morality. This and several other sources agree lesbianism only developed as a "sex crime" around 1920. Hirschfield 1914 - On the Homosexuality of Men and Women (http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/01/26/berlin-story). The article mentions a 1904 convergence with the women's movement. It seems like this whole Berlin/Paris Gay Club Scene converging with the birth of the study of psychiatry (Freud/Jung) may have lent itself to the sexual norms/deviances obsessions. Kind of puts a new spin on what Julia has been hobnobbing with, too - move over Sally Pendrick! |
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Post by snacky on Jan 29, 2015 8:36:08 GMT
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Post by Miss Emily Grace on Feb 18, 2015 1:52:24 GMT
I think that Emily & Lilian make a great couple and they really fallen for each other it's so nice to see her smile again and be taken care by the person she loves.
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Post by Miss Emily Grace on Feb 18, 2015 1:53:04 GMT
We should call them Emilian
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Post by snacky on Feb 18, 2015 2:50:06 GMT
I think that Emily & Lilian make a great couple and they really fallen for each other it's so nice to see her smile again and be taken care by the person she loves. Bring on the Xena nostalgia as well! |
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Post by Miss Emily Grace on Feb 19, 2015 4:19:46 GMT
I think that Emily & Lilian make a great couple and they really fallen for each other it's so nice to see her smile again and be taken care by the person she loves. Bring on the Xena nostalgia as well! Xena? |
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Post by snacky on Feb 19, 2015 8:34:55 GMT
Bring on the Xena nostalgia as well! Xena? Warrior Princess! |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 19, 2015 22:18:19 GMT
I think that Emily & Lilian make a great couple and they really fallen for each other it's so nice to see her smile again and be taken care by the person she loves. Bring on the Xena nostalgia as well! Yes! I have happy memories of watching Xena with my then very young daughter! We also love Mary Walsh's take on Xena as a Warrior Princess who ambushes politicians! |
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