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Post by snacky on Feb 24, 2015 7:57:39 GMT
Hot romance tip: call your lady love by her first name! They rarely do in Castle which was always kinda strange and even more so now that they are married...but at least Marlowe is adding some shippiness in most episodes! The difference there is that they were calling each other by their last names from the beginning in a way that became almost a term of affection. I don't see that happening in the Victorian period. While William might call Julia "Dr. Ogden" at work and Julia might call him Detective Murdoch - they do that to maintain social and professional proprieties. Calling each other by their first name is how they signal to each other that they are on intimate time now. By the way, on the bus home I was reading a review of the movie In the Mood for Love, which I've never seen. Apparently in this movie two neighbors are in love, but can't get together because of some sort of "propriety". Yet they signal their feelings in all sorts of ways. Might be interesting to compare. |
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Post by norakles on Feb 24, 2015 8:17:44 GMT
Amen to that! Julia and Emily both said it long ago. If that's what it takes to get some romance back I vote for this season to all have been a dream and W&J to live in sin! Hear, hear! |
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Post by norakles on Feb 24, 2015 8:32:04 GMT
Without giving away too much info I really don't know how I feel about this episode. The writing was solid, the chemistry between Yannick and Peter Outerbridge obvious and they brought that to the relationship between the characters. The reflection regarding our growth as human beings after the situations life has brought to us very well done and interesting, yet I wasn't fascinated by this storyline and the pace was really slow. I don't know what it is but I don't care that much about this specific episode. I agree with most of the above but I quite liked the sedate pace of the episode. I especially liked the glimpses (albeit brief) we got into William's past and events that shaped him into the man he is today. But I felt let down by the resolution as I was hoping for something juicier and fresher. This felt a bit tired. |
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Post by snacky on Feb 24, 2015 9:07:38 GMT
Without giving away too much info I really don't know how I feel about this episode. The writing was solid, the chemistry between Yannick and Peter Outerbridge obvious and they brought that to the relationship between the characters. The reflection regarding our growth as human beings after the situations life has brought to us very well done and interesting, yet I wasn't fascinated by this storyline and the pace was really slow. I don't know what it is but I don't care that much about this specific episode. I agree with most of the above but I quite liked the sedate pace of the episode. I especially liked the glimpses (albeit brief) we got into William's past and events that shaped him into the man he is today. But I felt let down by the resolution as I was hoping for something juicier and fresher. This felt a bit tired. Yes this sums up how felt. The episode was actually pretty good, but it seemed like it lost some steam at the end. Something you missed was that I've been advocating an angst plot where *William* gets excommunicated over having to choose between the law and the church. I'm bummed they used excommunication up on a guest character. It's like they had a great plot in their hands but chose to let it leak out of a hole in the side of the bucket. I thought the character of the woman priest was really great. I'm not sure what could have been done to give her a greater role or make her more dramatic. Perhaps we could have seen some of her reaction to potential excommunication? One question I had was if Father K already knew the priest was a woman, and that her sacraments were invalid, then how come he didn't put a stop to her preaching after the first parish? By moving her from parish to parish, the circle of potential damage just expanded. Wasn't she up for excommunication the moment she was identified as a woman? If priests are male because they are descendants of the apostles, what would happen if Mary Magdalen was identified as an apostle? Also, so bummed this turned out to be an urban legend in the making: www.snopes.com/media/notnews/femalegod.aspBy the way, if there were any "nods" to the Outerbridge William Murdoch, I completely missed them.  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 24, 2015 12:09:30 GMT
Well, finally caught the episode, and I have to say, I enjoyed it. It was nice and angsty, but it leaves some hope at the end for William to get to know his childhood mentor in a more realistic, undeified manner. It wasn't my favorite episode ever, but I did enjoy it. I enjoyed seeing young William, and how he was scared at the death and destruction. Father Keegan seems to have some medical knowledge which supports the rumor from the book that he was an army doctor during the Civil War-a nice detail, I thought. Like Norakles, I liked the slow pace-it wasn't hurried and frantic, but rather oddly satisfying. I'm not disappointed at all. But, I concede that it was missing a bit, but I don't know how else they could have fit it in within 42 minutes. I'm starting to wonder if losing those 6 minutes in the move to CBC is what's hurting some of the depth-they don't have the luxury of depth and detail those additional 6 minutes provided anymore, and is this hurting more than we think... Just a thought, mind you...  Also, I'm not sure we can call the priest transgender-she was a woman trying to do a man's job disguised as a man-I'm not sure that qualifies....insufficient evidence, I believe. Another nod to William being a married man-he's now aware of that time of the month, and is comfortable discussing it with other men. Also, this sets the stage for a pregnancy, which I'm convinced will be coming at the end of the season, or next.  We've had some subtle allusions to Julia's fertility, and now we've had some inclination that William's biological clock is ticking. Like Snacky, I would have loved for this to be a recurring theme for this season-William ready for a family, and Julia wanting to devote more time to her career and her suffragist cause. This would have been some nice angst, and would have put a wedge between them, but as has been stated before, marriage= no romance, in MMland. And that's too damn bad, it really is. I don't know if it's intentional, or the order has been scrambled so much this season from the original list, they've had to cut certain scenes for continuity purposes. I don't know what's going on there, to be honest, but it's strange. And apparently, this child is going to be conceived via immaculate conception-because there's no passion in this marriage for it to happen the old fashioned way...  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Feb 24, 2015 12:18:19 GMT
This is what I wrote on the FB group for MM where some of the writers are part of and read our comments. Let me know if you think it is disrespectful in any way to the crew. I just wrote what I feel but I don't want it to be hurtful. "As for William & Julia I'm not going to hold my breath anymore for more passion (we are at episode #15 after all), I think unfortunately the writers have let that ship sailed :/ Yes we had a lovely and fulfilling wedding episode but they haven't delivered on a marriage (imo) with the wonderful layers that this couple could have brought…I really hate using that expression and I thought that it could never fit them but unfortunately as someone else wrote once "They look comfortable as an old pair of shoes" (for me it is sad that it is the best way to describe them and what I see on screen at the moment  ) Beautifully said! Let me know what kind of response you got on it! I'm curious to know! Which group was this? I don't think there's any confusion in that post at all-it's all about the context. |
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Post by murdochic on Feb 24, 2015 12:59:31 GMT
I thought the way Julia was looking at William was really cute. I don't agree the ship has sailed, and while I'd love more scenes I don't think we need passion every week. That's not how MM works, and it never has. Their relationship is currently like it was during S3, sans the angst. Notice that Edna and George were also cute but their kiss didn't have any real passion, it's only occasionally MM does big passionate scenes. I adore W/J, but the show isn't centered around them, they're just a big part of it. The crimes come first.
It was nice to see some of William's childhood and understand where he got his detective mindframe from. But I wouldn't say it was a great episode, I guessed early on the priest was a woman and who the murderer had to be, there was only two choices to choose from. I'm not surprised they ignored Emily's storyline, because it screams plot device and will likely only be on screen when they want the drama. We've also barely seen Edna this season, so those romances are just for the plot and not about showing love stories. Too bad as they suit George and Emily.
I suspect the child issue is due to come up again for W/J. William's face when asked about children said it's still something he very much wants.
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Post by lizmc on Feb 24, 2015 15:41:07 GMT
One question I had was if Father K already knew the priest was a woman, and that her sacraments were invalid, then how come he didn't put a stop to her preaching after the first parish? By moving her from parish to parish, the circle of potential damage just expanded. Wasn't she up for excommunication the moment she was identified as a woman? I think this is alluding to the Catholic Church's habit of just moving priests around instead of dealing with problems until they blew up. We've seen many instances in recent years of pedophile priests finally being exposed after many years of committing abuse in many parishes.......while that wasn't the issue here, it is indicative that the Church has been hiding problems for generations.....Brackenreid clued in to it quickly when he saw how many parishes Father LaBelle had been at......
It would be interesting to see if woman formerly known as Father LaBelle returns as a suffragette......she'd offer an interesting contrast to Lillian Moss......
Interesting that they gave William's mentor the same name as the fake priest in Voices, who was also supposed to be from Nova Scotia.
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Post by lizmc on Feb 24, 2015 15:47:48 GMT
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Feb 24, 2015 16:15:40 GMT
Like Norakles, I liked the slow pace-it wasn't hurried and frantic, but rather oddly satisfying. I'm not disappointed at all. But, I concede that it was missing a bit, but I don't know how else they could have fit it in within 42 minutes. I'm starting to wonder if losing those 6 minutes in the move to CBC is what's hurting some of the depth-they don't have the luxury of depth and detail those additional 6 minutes provided anymore, and is this hurting more than we think... Just a thought, mind you... Also, I'm not sure we can call the priest transgender-she was a woman trying to do a man's job disguised as a man-I'm not sure that qualifies....insufficient evidence, I believe. The show was never 48 min though. S1-5 were around 45 min, then it became about 43:20 S6 and on. So there's really only a difference of about a minute and a half. Can't see that affecting the depth too much. Would be enough time for a little Jilliam scene though...can't use it as an excuse for the lack of attraction this season cuz we got plenty of flirty Jilliam last season...  Yeah I was just wondering that myself. Cross dresser yes, but did she identify as a man too? Hard to say. |
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Post by lovemondays on Feb 24, 2015 16:42:39 GMT
Like Norakles, I liked the slow pace-it wasn't hurried and frantic, but rather oddly satisfying. I'm not disappointed at all. But, I concede that it was missing a bit, but I don't know how else they could have fit it in within 42 minutes. I'm starting to wonder if losing those 6 minutes in the move to CBC is what's hurting some of the depth-they don't have the luxury of depth and detail those additional 6 minutes provided anymore, and is this hurting more than we think... Just a thought, mind you... Also, I'm not sure we can call the priest transgender-she was a woman trying to do a man's job disguised as a man-I'm not sure that qualifies....insufficient evidence, I believe. The show was never 48 min though. S1-5 were around 45 min, then it became about 43:20 S6 and on. So there's really only a difference of about a minute and a half. Can't see that affecting the depth too much. Would be enough time for a little Jilliam scene though...can't use it as an excuse for the lack of attraction this season cuz we got plenty of flirty Jilliam last season... Yeah I was just wondering that myself. Cross dresser yes, but did she identify as a man too? Hard to say. I don't think Father LaBelle was transgender. I think she heard her calling from God and did what was necessary to answer it. William even questioned why she didn't "take the veil" and her answer was about the role of priests as conduits to God. Julia made the point that a truly determined woman will go to great lengths to get what she wants including 'becoming a man' to achieve it in a man's world. I found it interesting how Julia used the example of Dr. James Barry/Margaret Bulkley to make her point and William's response was that she actually saved people! A non-sequiter if you ask me. How does William define the role of a priest then? Don't they "save souls"? He completely dismissed any and all good Father LaBelle achieved with his ministry because she was a woman and therefore wasn't a true conduit of God. I guess William can deal with women in any role except as a priest. William and Julia could have gotten into a juicy debate about that! William didn't seem particularly bothered by Grace Reid living as a man in Victor/Victorian. He was more puzzled. In all fairness though, the episode was about William's path to being a detective, not a debate about gender roles in 1902. |
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Post by Hodge on Feb 24, 2015 16:49:36 GMT
The one accidental move in that direction - where Julia abandoned William for dinner with Dr. Bajjali, was quite effective in that regard - without Julia even being present!!! Yes, that ended up being a good scene and the tension and awkwardness was probably what was intended for all the supposed 'apartness' (is that a word?) this season and that wasn't originally scripted! |
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Post by randomkiwibirds on Feb 24, 2015 17:03:32 GMT
*sobs dramaically as no new episodes until March 16*
Anyway, I enjoyed seeing Julia applying her psych stuff to the whole mystery. Anyone else have a flashback to Season 3's Victor Victorian?
So Father Keegan became Murdoch's father figure in his life as Harry was out being perpetually drunk.
I'm also kind of glad that they didn't go the whole 'Heroes Fall' route.
I quite enjoyed that dinner with the three of them. I think that was probably my favourite scene in the episode.
The whole Genda thing was really adorables, I think those to are much more suited for one another than George and Emily.
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Post by lovemondays on Feb 24, 2015 17:31:25 GMT
I found several pertinent lines, delivered by Father Keegan in the past, that truly define William's morality, methods and decisions. William said that he "remember(s) every word you said to me" and "they are the words I recall whenever I have a difficult decision to make."
The bedrock truths for William are:
"The truth is the rock on which we must stand, no matter what the consequences."
"Sometimes the greater good must take precedence, even over the law."
"The pursuit of truth is absolute."
"Do not trust in your heart alone."
So William has carried these words as his mantra from childhood. They have defined him as a man and as a detective and they are absolute but it is obvious that they have been on parallel journeys to bend these absolutes because the human condition is one of fallibility. William is disappointed with this in Father Keegan just as anyone who grows up is able to see the imperfections of those they hold in great esteem. I assume that retro Father Keegan would be close to present day William's age. Interesting to see the parallel journey.
I found one VERY interesting flashback. When young Will and and Father Keegan were trying to sort out who stabbed the sailor they entertained the possibility that it was the young woman who did it and Will said he didn't think so because "she didn't look like a murderer...she was too beautiful." Shades of William being taken in by the likes of Sally Pendrick and Eva Pierce.
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Post by lovemondays on Feb 24, 2015 17:49:58 GMT
Hot romance tip: call your lady love by her first name! They rarely do in Castle which was always kinda strange and even more so now that they are married...but at least Marlowe is adding some shippiness in most episodes! I've been thinking about how the writers of Castle have done a much better job of handling the post marriage UST. Both couples are equal in the way they each hold back their fears and concerns from the other in the moment. Where Castle does a better job is after the resolution they come together emotionally, not just sexually. Castle said "do you know how I get through the worry? I just open my eyes and look at you." I found that incredibly powerful. It spoke to an emotional connection that we all feel has gone walkabout between William and Julia. Why can't the MM team pull something like that off? Maybe it's because they have too many writers and no one taking responsibility for the continuity of the W/J ship. |
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We've had some subtle allusions to Julia's fertility, and now we've had some inclination that William's biological clock is ticking. Like Snacky, I would have loved for this to be a recurring theme for this season-William ready for a family, and Julia wanting to devote more time to her career and her suffragist cause. This would have been some nice angst, and would have put a wedge between them, but as has been stated before, marriage= no romance, in MMland. And that's too damn bad, it really is. I don't know if it's intentional, or the order has been scrambled so much this season from the original list, they've had to cut certain scenes for continuity purposes. I don't know what's going on there, to be honest, but it's strange.
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