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Post by snacky on Apr 22, 2015 16:27:51 GMT
Probably, but I did like to see him not hesitate for once around her.  So did I. I have to admit I still don't get this pairing. For someone that's so confident in his job William's a wimp around Julia but still can't resist her. Maybe it goes back to his past, he probably didn't have much contact with girls, now he's met a woman that's not only attractive but his intellectual equal, instant attraction, but her confidence is a little overwhelming for him. I've thought for a long time that she's his 'siren'. It would be interesting to know how the TV version of Liza was different. I've always taken it as meaningful that Liza was "on top" and seemed to be calling all the shots, though. And what did it mean for William to continue to be "committed" to her after she was dead? For someone who was practically inanimate when Julia first met him, that indicates someone who had let himself fall (re: Convalesence) passionately in love.  |
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Post by Hodge on Apr 22, 2015 17:58:12 GMT
So did I. I have to admit I still don't get this pairing. For someone that's so confident in his job William's a wimp around Julia but still can't resist her. Maybe it goes back to his past, he probably didn't have much contact with girls, now he's met a woman that's not only attractive but his intellectual equal, instant attraction, but her confidence is a little overwhelming for him. I've thought for a long time that she's his 'siren'. It would be interesting to know how the TV version of Liza was different. I've always taken it as meaningful that Liza was "on top" and seemed to be calling all the shots, though. And what did it mean for William to continue to be "committed" to her after she was dead? For someone who was practically inanimate when Julia first met him, that indicates someone who had let himself fall (re: Convalesence) passionately in love. I got the impression he was very comfortable with Liza, she was more of his social class. Perhaps he was in awe of Julia and felt a little out of his depth with her at first, even more so if he was already in love with her and especially given her class. She must have seemed somewhat unattainable for him. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Apr 23, 2015 10:41:53 GMT
It would be interesting to know how the TV version of Liza was different. I've always taken it as meaningful that Liza was "on top" and seemed to be calling all the shots, though. And what did it mean for William to continue to be "committed" to her after she was dead? For someone who was practically inanimate when Julia first met him, that indicates someone who had let himself fall (re: Convalesence) passionately in love. I got the impression he was very comfortable with Liza, she was more of his social class. Perhaps he was in awe of Julia and felt a little out of his depth with her at first, even more so if he was already in love with her and especially given her class. She must have seemed somewhat unattainable for him. Book Liza was definitely in charge...William mused about how she viewed him as her property and how he liked that because it meant that someone claimed him and that it meant someone cared that much about him. I'm paraphrasing here, but I remember thinking how sad it was that he didn't really have anyone else who loved him. Keeping in mind how TV William doesn't really have any family either, I suspect that he's happily owned by the woman in his life. |
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Post by Hodge on Apr 23, 2015 16:32:31 GMT
I got the impression he was very comfortable with Liza, she was more of his social class. Perhaps he was in awe of Julia and felt a little out of his depth with her at first, even more so if he was already in love with her and especially given her class. She must have seemed somewhat unattainable for him. Book Liza was definitely in charge...William mused about how she viewed him as her property and how he liked that because it meant that someone claimed him and that it meant someone cared that much about him. I'm paraphrasing here, but I remember thinking how sad it was that he didn't really have anyone else who loved him. Keeping in mind how TV William doesn't really have any family either, I suspect that he's happily owned by the woman in his life. I thought book William was a pretty pathetic character. I have to admit to not remembering that Liza viewed him as property. Kind of odd really as once married women became their husband's property. You can see where this would lead to some of show William's characteristics though. I suspect show Liza owned him too and we know Julia owns him despite them being 'partners in a modern marriage'. William has always deferred to her throughout their courtship. I suspect he would have liked to be somewhat mothered or at least felt sheltered and Julia does look out for him albeit in her own strange way. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Apr 24, 2015 2:17:53 GMT
Probably, but I did like to see him not hesitate for once around her. So did I. I have to admit I still don't get this pairing. For someone that's so confident in his job William's a wimp around Julia but still can't resist her. Maybe it goes back to his past, he probably didn't have much contact with girls, now he's met a woman that's not only attractive but his intellectual equal, instant attraction, but her confidence is a little overwhelming for him. I've thought for a long time that she's his 'siren'. I completely agree that she's his siren. For someone so confident and in charge professionally, he's really quite the opposite personally. Julia absolutely has the capability to destroy him if she wanted, but lucky for him, she doesn't want to (whether she would or not inadvertently remains to be seen). She doesn't also want to play him for her nefarious plans a la Sally or Eva. For all of her flaws, Julia is a good person and doesn't want to hurt him, although she has. Really, it's no surprise that he likes dominant women because it relieves him of having to be in charge and I suspect that with a husband like Harry, his "sharp-tongued" mother had to be dominant. It's comfortable to him. |
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Post by Hodge on Apr 24, 2015 2:41:31 GMT
So did I. I have to admit I still don't get this pairing. For someone that's so confident in his job William's a wimp around Julia but still can't resist her. Maybe it goes back to his past, he probably didn't have much contact with girls, now he's met a woman that's not only attractive but his intellectual equal, instant attraction, but her confidence is a little overwhelming for him. I've thought for a long time that she's his 'siren'. I completely agree that she's his siren. For someone so confident and in charge professionally, he's really quite the opposite personally. Julia absolutely has the capability to destroy him if she wanted, but lucky for him, she doesn't want to (whether she would or not inadvertently remains to be seen). She doesn't also want to play him for her nefarious plans a la Sally or Eva. For all of her flaws, Julia is a good person and doesn't want to hurt him, although she has. Really, it's no surprise that he likes dominant women because it relieves him of having to be in charge and I suspect that with a husband like Harry, his "sharp-tongued" mother had to be dominant. It's comfortable to him. His mother being dominant also became his idea of what a wife should be. He was raised by a dominant woman and now seeks a dominant woman for his wife. If not dominant at least self assured. |
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Post by snacky on Apr 25, 2015 2:26:40 GMT
I got the impression he was very comfortable with Liza, she was more of his social class. Perhaps he was in awe of Julia and felt a little out of his depth with her at first, even more so if he was already in love with her and especially given her class. She must have seemed somewhat unattainable for him. Yes, he didn't seem to be holding back from Liza at all. But the way he was staying committed to her over a year after her death was also very strange. Was he intending to remain a bachelor the rest of his life in order to remain faithful to her? |
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Post by snacky on Apr 25, 2015 3:12:41 GMT
Book Liza was definitely in charge...William mused about how she viewed him as her property and how he liked that because it meant that someone claimed him and that it meant someone cared that much about him. I'm paraphrasing here, but I remember thinking how sad it was that he didn't really have anyone else who loved him. Keeping in mind how TV William doesn't really have any family either, I suspect that he's happily owned by the woman in his life. Book William - what little I read - seemed fairly immature and a bit petty. I think he needed a woman to take care of him as well as own him. One of the ways TV William is different is he's a lot more responsible - and Julia can be a bit more childish and petty (which is one of many reasons I think she sucks as a psychiatrist). But while he's the rock in the relationship, I do think he also needs to be mothered on occasion (re: Mrs. Kitchen). |
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Post by Hodge on Apr 25, 2015 3:14:40 GMT
I got the impression he was very comfortable with Liza, she was more of his social class. Perhaps he was in awe of Julia and felt a little out of his depth with her at first, even more so if he was already in love with her and especially given her class. She must have seemed somewhat unattainable for him. Yes, he didn't seem to be holding back from Liza at all. But the way he was staying committed to her over a year after her death was also very strange. Was he intending to remain a bachelor the rest of his life in order to remain faithful to her? How long was official mourning for a fiancee in Victorian times? I'm guessing Liza was his first love and I think we can also assume that he was very much in love with her and as such had a long mourning especially for a man. Mourning seems to have been mainly the domain of women especially for their husbands but there were proscribed mourning periods depend on relationship. It was only when Liza released him that he moved on. From this I think we can assume that he may have held on to her for much longer had it not been for Miss Pensall. |
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Post by snacky on Apr 25, 2015 3:22:51 GMT
Really, it's no surprise that he likes dominant women because it relieves him of having to be in charge and I suspect that with a husband like Harry, his "sharp-tongued" mother had to be dominant. It's comfortable to him. Now there's a question. How much is Julia like William's mother? And what Harry-like elements does William try to suppress in himself - besides the temptation to drink? |
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Post by snacky on Apr 25, 2015 3:38:52 GMT
It was only when Liza released him that he moved on. From this I think we can assume that he may have held on to her for much longer had it not been for Miss Pensall. From the episode it seemed like he was planning to mourn eternally! |
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Post by sydneyfan on Apr 25, 2015 4:05:13 GMT
Back to the board, been travelling too much for work and really really missing my stress release of any new Murdoch episodes! We are back to about our 10th run of repeats from day one so I think I could slip into any part.  ?I love Julia, she is my favourite character ( no bias I promise given Australian) but I like to see strong independent women who have a career and are not simply on a show to be handbags or in domestic scenes, especially in that era. She also has a sense of social justice and human rights and is not class conscious despite her background! All things I admire. In the 70's one of my fav tv shows was Mary Tyler Moore even though she lamented being single she was a career woman in a mans world. Gosh I sound like I'm on a soap box!!!! I think Julia has only ever been interested in William's best interests. She did what she did to try and be fair and give William the life she thought he wanted. They both were however as hopeless as each other at speaking their true feelings. Sometimes I feel like shaking William with his social obtuseness but Julia just smiles. Re Julia being a poor psychiatrist, I think that rings true for many of them to this day, just saying no offence intended!!!! It's ANZAC day here so I should be thinking of those that have fought to retain our freedom! Cheers all! |
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Post by lizmc on Apr 25, 2015 4:10:26 GMT
There has actually been quite a bit of coverage for ANZAC Day here, and the story of the Gallipoli campaign, which is great to see. I think the 100 year anniversary of WWI is waking quite a few people up to our history...
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Post by snacky on Apr 25, 2015 4:53:02 GMT
Sometimes I feel like shaking William with his social obtuseness but Julia just smiles. Re Julia being a poor psychiatrist, I think that rings true for many of them to this day, just saying no offence intended!!!! lol at Julia just smiling at William's obtuseness - it's true she does that. One thing that bothers me about Julia, and that I also think would make her a poor psychiatrist, is she has a bit of an evil sense of humor. I just rewatched Holy Matrimony Murdoch, and when the criminals are being arrested, Julia jokes about "Til Death Do Us Part". Sometimes her "morgue humor" turned a bit to the cruel side. As a doctor, Julia needed to develop a dispassionate point of view - and her conversation with the "ghost" of her father noted that she had attained that. However, as a psychiatrist she also needs empathy. I'm not sure Julia has the patience to truly have empathy. At best she has flashes of insight. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Apr 25, 2015 4:57:05 GMT
Book Liza was definitely in charge...William mused about how she viewed him as her property and how he liked that because it meant that someone claimed him and that it meant someone cared that much about him. I'm paraphrasing here, but I remember thinking how sad it was that he didn't really have anyone else who loved him. Keeping in mind how TV William doesn't really have any family either, I suspect that he's happily owned by the woman in his life. Book William - what little I read - seemed fairly immature and a bit petty. I think he needed a woman to take care of him as well as own him. One of the ways TV William is different is he's a lot more responsible - and Julia can be a bit more childish and petty (which is one of many reasons I think she sucks as a psychiatrist). But while he's the rock in the relationship, I do think he also needs to be mothered on occasion (re: Mrs. Kitchen). Sorry, but I don't agree with that interpretation of book William. You're taking the whole Enid/Alwyn thing out of context, IMO, and when you've read all of the books, a very different picture emerges. It's also pretty clear that while book William was looking for a wife, he was lonely, and wanted companionship above all else. If he'd just wanted a housekeeper with sexual benefits, he would have married Enid. He was craving intimacy, and if you read the books with Amy Slade, he wants a companion and an equal. But yes, while I think he wanted a bit of mothering from Mrs. Kitchen, he doesn't want a lot from his lover-see Enid feeding him in Convalesence and that look between him and Julia-she knows there's a difference between nursing and mothering-Enid was treating him like Alwyn, IMO. He didn't like it. |
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?I love Julia, she is my favourite character ( no bias I promise given Australian) but I like to see strong independent women who have a career and are not simply on a show to be handbags or in domestic scenes, especially in that era. She also has a sense of social justice and human rights and is not class conscious despite her background! All things I admire. In the 70's one of my fav tv shows was Mary Tyler Moore even though she lamented being single she was a career woman in a mans world. Gosh I sound like I'm on a soap box!!!! I think Julia has only ever been interested in William's best interests. She did what she did to try and be fair and give William the life she thought he wanted. They both were however as hopeless as each other at speaking their true feelings. Sometimes I feel like shaking William with his social obtuseness but Julia just smiles. Re Julia being a poor psychiatrist, I think that rings true for many of them to this day, just saying no offence intended!!!! 
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT