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Post by snacky on Jul 22, 2015 0:34:11 GMT
I don't think Julia felt like a spinster or started husband-hunting until William started stringing her along. Then she started to question her value on the marriage market and feel her biological clock ticking (even though she couldn't have children). And Ruby was making her feel like a frumpy old maid. She needed to feel desirable.
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Post by Hodge on Jul 22, 2015 2:05:44 GMT
I thought that was him imagining the woman on the stand at the trial. He wouldn't have been there. He also flashes back to when they were in her room after they pull her out of the chest and she calls George Huckleberry. Perhaps that was an oversight on the part of the editor. |
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Post by lea on Jul 22, 2015 2:34:30 GMT
He also flashes back to when they were in her room after they pull her out of the chest and she calls George Huckleberry. Perhaps that was an oversight on the part of the editor. I can go with that! |
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Post by Hodge on Jul 22, 2015 2:54:34 GMT
Perhaps that was an oversight on the part of the editor. I can go with that! I've been taking notice of these flashbacks/insights and they're pretty consistent. Haven't taken notice if they're still doing them into S8 though. |
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Post by lea on Jul 22, 2015 4:01:21 GMT
I've been taking notice of these flashbacks/insights and they're pretty consistent. Haven't taken notice if they're still doing them into S8 though. That would be great if they were consistent throughout most of the seasons! I'll slowly be taking note, one episode a day  |
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Post by snacky on Jul 22, 2015 7:34:31 GMT
He also flashes back to when they were in her room after they pull her out of the chest and she calls George Huckleberry. Perhaps that was an oversight on the part of the editor. It would be really cool to think there was an "Art Bible" for MM that was that consistent. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 22, 2015 13:04:17 GMT
Still one of my faves of all time! In my view the most interesting thing about this episode is it shows what William would be like or wants to be if he could drop all the onion layers of Catholic School, Civil Servitude, and Victorian Repression that have built up over the years. I read a really good review when I first started watching MM that pointed out that William gets stuff done as a normal man. He's the opposite of American TV protagonists who are often out-sized, swaggering, over-confident, over-sexed, bullies who would probably be diagnosed as sociopaths in real life. William is simply capable, very well-read and inclined toward DIY projects. However, The Murdoch Identity shows William probably read a lot of adventure stories as a boy, and he still has heroic fantasies of himself. He tells Anna he "hopes" he isn't an accountant: he doesn't want his life to be sucked away by something so trivial. Running from the bad guys has got his adrenaline up, and then he gets the chance to save Queen Victoria herself! It must have been almost disappointing to remember the constraints of his real life. In Jilliam terms, this ep is used for the not-a-virgin argument because William seems to be remembering Julia in lingerie.  This episode is also great for viewers who love angst since Julia is terrified for William's safety - and the situation is resolved by their first to-hell-with-propriety public kiss in the end. TMI is absolutely one of my favourite eps of S3. As you say we see the William that lies underneath all those layers that he's built up and I suspect it's what Julia knows is underneath. I've always wondered what she saw in such a stuffy bloke, other than his looks and mind, unless she'd had a glimpse of who he really is. I have to admit I'm rethinking my virgin!William ideas recently because of the scenes where he remembers Julia in her underwear. As someone said, was it lea(?), when he's remembering things the scene has a red tinge (blue when he's imagining it); I've been taking notice recently and it's consistent. This means that William was there with Julia in her underwear. I can only think of one reason she'd be in her underwear outdoors with William.... I have to admit to loving The Great Wall. There is just something about this ep. I LOVE William in it, he's so vulnerable and once again his 'truth at any cost' leads him into potential trouble. We also see that he's not afraid to mix it up with the other guys when he feels affronted. Season 3 has to be one of the best seasons of the entire series. I've been rethinking my virgin!William ideas recently as well. I recently just re-watched the first three seasons and they do seem to give off a vibe that they've been enjoying one another. They're not in seasons four and five for obvious reasons, nor six because she's another man's wife, but I think William is too frustrated in season 7, so I don't think they're sleeping together there either. But why? Is it because maybe he's trying to show her that he truly loves her, and isn't just enjoying the milk for free, like he possibly was before? He's abstaining to show her his motives are true this time? I don't know, but like I said, I've been rethinking my virgin ideas recently as well. |
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Post by lea on Jul 22, 2015 15:20:41 GMT
TMI is absolutely one of my favourite eps of S3. As you say we see the William that lies underneath all those layers that he's built up and I suspect it's what Julia knows is underneath. I've always wondered what she saw in such a stuffy bloke, other than his looks and mind, unless she'd had a glimpse of who he really is. I have to admit I'm rethinking my virgin!William ideas recently because of the scenes where he remembers Julia in her underwear. As someone said, was it lea(?), when he's remembering things the scene has a red tinge (blue when he's imagining it); I've been taking notice recently and it's consistent. This means that William was there with Julia in her underwear. I can only think of one reason she'd be in her underwear outdoors with William.... I have to admit to loving The Great Wall. There is just something about this ep. I LOVE William in it, he's so vulnerable and once again his 'truth at any cost' leads him into potential trouble. We also see that he's not afraid to mix it up with the other guys when he feels affronted. Season 3 has to be one of the best seasons of the entire series. I've been rethinking my virgin!William ideas recently as well. I recently just re-watched the first three seasons and they do seem to give off a vibe that they've been enjoying one another. They're not in seasons four and five for obvious reasons, nor six because she's another man's wife, but I think William is too frustrated in season 7, so I don't think they're sleeping together there either. But why? Is it because maybe he's trying to show her that he truly loves her, and isn't just enjoying the milk for free, like he possibly was before? He's abstaining to show her his motives are true this time? I don't know, but like I said, I've been rethinking my virgin ideas recently as well. I also recently have re-thought the virgin!William thing. I came late to MM just having discovered it as season 8 was ending. The first watch through of the series I thought for sure William was a virgin and when I began to watch some of the episodes again I kind of picked up on perhaps maybe not. Now that I'm going through these episodes in order again I'm nearly completely removed from the idea. They had to have been in season 3 at the very least. |
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Post by lea on Jul 22, 2015 15:23:49 GMT
Perhaps that was an oversight on the part of the editor. It would be really cool to think there was an "Art Bible" for MM that was that consistent. That would be amazing. |
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Post by Hodge on Jul 22, 2015 15:38:31 GMT
I've been rethinking my virgin!William ideas recently as well. I recently just re-watched the first three seasons and they do seem to give off a vibe that they've been enjoying one another. They're not in seasons four and five for obvious reasons, nor six because she's another man's wife, but I think William is too frustrated in season 7, so I don't think they're sleeping together there either. But why? Is it because maybe he's trying to show her that he truly loves her, and isn't just enjoying the milk for free, like he possibly was before? He's abstaining to show her his motives are true this time? I don't know, but like I said, I've been rethinking my virgin ideas recently as well. I also recently have re-thought the virgin!William thing. I came late to MM just having discovered it as season 8 was ending. The first watch through of the series I thought for sure William was a virgin and when I began to watch some of the episodes again I kind of picked up on perhaps maybe not. Now that I'm going through these episodes in order again I'm nearly completely removed from the idea. They had to have been in season 3 at the very least. This is one of the things I love about MM. Every time you watch it you can see things you've never seen before. It doesn't matter how many times you've seen an ep there is always something else to discover. There are so many layers and as you get to know the characters better you see things differently. I especially like the stallion comment in Future Imperfect. At first I thought it was completely out of character for William, but the more I've watched and changed my mind about their relationship status the more I really like that William was confident enough to suggest such a scenario. Notvirgin!William would also explain his reaction to Brackenreid's comment about him having no experience. I always thought he was surprised Brackenreid would think he wasn't and his reaction to the comment about every time he'd imagined doing it was priceless and suggested he thought it was crazy. |
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Post by snacky on Jul 22, 2015 18:15:20 GMT
I also recently have re-thought the virgin!William thing. I came late to MM just having discovered it as season 8 was ending. The first watch through of the series I thought for sure William was a virgin and when I began to watch some of the episodes again I kind of picked up on perhaps maybe not. Now that I'm going through these episodes in order again I'm nearly completely removed from the idea. They had to have been in season 3 at the very least. This is one of the things I love about MM. Every time you watch it you can see things you've never seen before. It doesn't matter how many times you've seen an ep there is always something else to discover. There are so many layers and as you get to know the characters better you see things differently. I especially like the stallion comment in Future Imperfect. At first I thought it was completely out of character for William, but the more I've watched and changed my mind about their relationship status the more I really like that William was confident enough to suggest such a scenario. Notvirgin!William would also explain his reaction to Brackenreid's comment about him having no experience. I always thought he was surprised Brackenreid would think he wasn't and his reaction to the comment about every time he'd imagined doing it was priceless and suggested he thought it was crazy. IMHO, that stallion remark still came off a bit OOC - or perhaps like a nerd over-doing the bravado. However, now that you brought it up, I think Julia's reaction and her later actions are confirmation of the "pro-virgin" (at least with Julia) side - at least up until that point. The Murdoch Identity still could have been a memory of just fooling around. It seems to me that the first 4 seasons must have been more layered in terms of direction as well as writing. They garner a lot more thought from me than the others. Some people have brought up about how later seasons must be "better" because they get more votes in the IMDB database, but if you look at the votes, they are weighted toward when MM gained a wider viewership, and they are heavily weighted toward "voting shipper". That really doesn't say whether the ep provoked thought or conversation. MM was still finding itself during the 1st season: 2nd-4th were the best, IMHO. |
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Post by snacky on Jul 22, 2015 18:19:40 GMT
TMI is absolutely one of my favourite eps of S3. As you say we see the William that lies underneath all those layers that he's built up and I suspect it's what Julia knows is underneath. I've always wondered what she saw in such a stuffy bloke, other than his looks and mind, unless she'd had a glimpse of who he really is. I have to admit I'm rethinking my virgin!William ideas recently because of the scenes where he remembers Julia in her underwear. As someone said, was it lea(?), when he's remembering things the scene has a red tinge (blue when he's imagining it); I've been taking notice recently and it's consistent. This means that William was there with Julia in her underwear. I can only think of one reason she'd be in her underwear outdoors with William.... I have to admit to loving The Great Wall. There is just something about this ep. I LOVE William in it, he's so vulnerable and once again his 'truth at any cost' leads him into potential trouble. We also see that he's not afraid to mix it up with the other guys when he feels affronted. Season 3 has to be one of the best seasons of the entire series. I've been rethinking my virgin!William ideas recently as well. I recently just re-watched the first three seasons and they do seem to give off a vibe that they've been enjoying one another. They're not in seasons four and five for obvious reasons, nor six because she's another man's wife, but I think William is too frustrated in season 7, so I don't think they're sleeping together there either. But why? Is it because maybe he's trying to show her that he truly loves her, and isn't just enjoying the milk for free, like he possibly was before? He's abstaining to show her his motives are true this time? I don't know, but like I said, I've been rethinking my virgin ideas recently as well. From my historical reading, it seems to me that Victorians had practices that could get very intimate without going all the way, as it were. So William could still go into the marriage without having slept with Julia (perhaps he slept with Liza before she died), but still sexually comfortable with her - as Julia obviously conspired to make so - and that's why he was rolling his eyes at Brackenreid. |
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Post by Hodge on Jul 22, 2015 18:34:14 GMT
I've been rethinking my virgin!William ideas recently as well. I recently just re-watched the first three seasons and they do seem to give off a vibe that they've been enjoying one another. They're not in seasons four and five for obvious reasons, nor six because she's another man's wife, but I think William is too frustrated in season 7, so I don't think they're sleeping together there either. But why? Is it because maybe he's trying to show her that he truly loves her, and isn't just enjoying the milk for free, like he possibly was before? He's abstaining to show her his motives are true this time? I don't know, but like I said, I've been rethinking my virgin ideas recently as well. From my historical reading, it seems to me that Victorians had practices that could get very intimate without going all the way, as it were. So William could still go into the marriage without having slept with Julia (perhaps he slept with Liza before she died), but still sexually comfortable with her - as Julia obviously conspired to make so - and that's why he was rolling his eyes at Brackenreid. I actually have to agree with this and this is the reason I thought he was still a virgin whilst still being able to fool around. I'm still on the fence, just teetering heavily towards not a virgin. |
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Post by Hodge on Jul 22, 2015 18:40:36 GMT
This is one of the things I love about MM. Every time you watch it you can see things you've never seen before. It doesn't matter how many times you've seen an ep there is always something else to discover. There are so many layers and as you get to know the characters better you see things differently. I especially like the stallion comment in Future Imperfect. At first I thought it was completely out of character for William, but the more I've watched and changed my mind about their relationship status the more I really like that William was confident enough to suggest such a scenario. Notvirgin!William would also explain his reaction to Brackenreid's comment about him having no experience. I always thought he was surprised Brackenreid would think he wasn't and his reaction to the comment about every time he'd imagined doing it was priceless and suggested he thought it was crazy. IMHO, that stallion remark still came off a bit OOC - or perhaps like a nerd over-doing the bravado. However, now that you brought it up, I think Julia's reaction and her later actions are confirmation of the "pro-virgin" (at least with Julia) side - at least up until that point. The Murdoch Identity still could have been a memory of just fooling around. It seems to me that the first 4 seasons must have been more layered in terms of direction as well as writing. They garner a lot more thought from me than the others. Some people have brought up about how later seasons must be "better" because they get more votes in the IMDB database, but if you look at the votes, they are weighted toward when MM gained a wider viewership, and they are heavily weighted toward "voting shipper". That really doesn't say whether the ep provoked thought or conversation. MM was still finding itself during the 1st season: 2nd-4th were the best, IMHO. As far as complexity goes S2-4 were definitely the best. You could read into them almost anything you want. S5 was a bit of a bust but I understand why given the situation the writers found themselves in. Despite that it did have some good episodes just not very complex. When Julia left Darcy it was pretty obvious what was going to eventually happen and again complexity went out the window until the end of S8. Perhaps some could say there was some given we didn't see much of the marriage so you could read into it that there was a problem. I just assume the writers forgot about it. Too bad, it would have been a great time to explore a more intimate relationship (without sexual content of course). I guess we'll see what S9 brings but as far as the relationship goes there's not much to explore, we know he's not a virgin now so nothing to speculate on there. |
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Post by Hodge on Jul 22, 2015 18:44:56 GMT
I don't think Julia felt like a spinster or started husband-hunting until William started stringing her along. Then she started to question her value on the marriage market and feel her biological clock ticking (even though she couldn't have children). And Ruby was making her feel like a frumpy old maid. She needed to feel desirable. I don't think William was stringing her along. As usual he needed a push and her leaving was just that, unfortunately just a little too late. I do think Ruby made her feel like a frumpy old maid though. |
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This episode is also great for viewers who love angst since Julia is terrified for William's safety - and the situation is resolved by their first to-hell-with-propriety public kiss in the end.