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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Apr 21, 2013 6:48:10 GMT
I think I have to arrive at 500 posts right? so I still have time, but I promise that it won't go over my head like it did for Cosmic Cavalcade  I would not say such things if I were you, puny mortal! But since I am such a benevolent, all knowing being, I will still answer your question. True, I had 500 posts when my Godliness was bestowed upon me but Hannah had 1000 before that most joyous of occasions. So in other words, I have no idea how this works. You just need to have ten stars, and every time you go up a level, you get two more, so I believe you are just one step away. |
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Post by hannikan on Apr 21, 2013 8:29:06 GMT
Probably, I already had over 500 posts when they created the God status. In other words, I am older than God. LOL
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Post by MelodyPond101 on May 8, 2013 4:06:59 GMT
It's annoying obviously and William being so heroic in this episode with choosing her life instead of his it makes the situation a bit harder to swallow. But I have to say that putting the blame solely on Julia is a trend that has a tendency to unnerve me. I'm not happy with the situation the writers have left us with either but as some people commented she almost got hanged (less than 1 minute and that was it) plus Darcy got killed so she must feel guilt over it even if it is neither her fault or William. Give the woman a break. I love both characters even with their flaws as they are not perfect. People describing William as perfect or almost and deserving a better partner puzzle me I have to admit; he has made his own mistakes too but most of the time Julia takes the blame for everything that went wrong in their relationship and personally I don't think it's fair. I agree with this so much. I've said exactly the same thing on other Murdoch-y places on the Internet, Julia being one of my favorite characters.. I dislike how it's always "Murdoch deserves better", and "Murdoch should find someone worthy of him!", as if because Murdoch is the main character he is absolutely untouchable and perfect. I noticed a lot of Julia bashing not only after the finale, but throughout season six, and it truly does puzzle me, because Julia has her flaws, but I would not put her down as "selfish" or "with an agenda". Regarding the last scene, (or was it second last scene?) I think there was a bit of an overreaction. She didn't break up with him, she just did not wish to celebrate. If we were to play the blame game, William was insensitive to Julia's feelings, as well, and she looked back- he did not; he was gone. My point: Well, the explosion of angry comments on Facebook and other sites brought me to this long, Julia-defending post. All I can say is that we should cut her some slack and be sense give not only to William's feelings, but to Julia's as well. Julia is a favorite character of mine; as I mentioned above. I admire her principles and how she sticks by them. The court in "Crime & Punishment" when she refused to lie was a perfect example. I admire her wit and her extreme intelligence and how she has sought and stuck to a strong career despite the difficulties of the time period. Her temper makes me smile as well. It doesn't hurt I think Helene Joy is an amazing actor. |
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Post by barbarama on May 8, 2013 4:38:40 GMT
I couldn't agree more with what you just wrote MelodyPond101  I'm not trying to put the blame on any of them as they've both made mistakes so the posts that are only against Julia are somewhat questionable as not other main characters of the show get this kind of treatment and let's face it they are not perfect. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2013 3:11:54 GMT
I have enjoyed reading this thread and would like to add that I am so thankful that Julia is different from her character in the books! There she has no sense of humour at all. I am with most of you: I really like this character and feel that she is the perfect match for William. I love the chemistry when they work together. I was a bit angry with him for letting her go in the season 3 finale. Why didn't he catch the next train? And in Buffalo shuffle, why didn't he tell her how he felt? Ah but I guess that would have been too easy and maybe a little out of character for him: he has difficulty with emotions.
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Post by snacky on Mar 2, 2014 3:20:53 GMT
I would like to see Julia tell William off for occasionally veering off to be a pompous prig.
I like William to be a bit of a prude, awkwardly inquiring about clues of a sexual nature. That gives the impression he's a tightly packed ball of UST, keeping Julia imagining what it would be like to pull the rip cord. (mental segue into all the crude guys I've known who don't understand how sexy a little bit of repression can be).
However, sometimes William's period-appropriate prudishness gets to be a little too patronizing. I never did like his whole "I won't rescue you" speech: would Julia seriously let him lecture her? I felt the same way when William questioned whether Julia would peek at Julia's correspondence if he weren't there. Who is he to preach? If Ruby hadn't looked at the proposal in his drawer, he wouldn't have gotten a second chance with Julia. Thank goodness for the occasional well-intentioned snooping!
Anyway, Julia is supposed to be a modern woman and "quite a pistol". If William is assuming an air of superiority around her, she should take a little air out of his bag.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2014 19:27:45 GMT
Ok Snacky. Sorry but I don't know the acronym UST. But I think I understand what you are saying. When ( I am not going to say "if" because that would be unthinkable!) they get together it will be quite the explosion. She has the know how, he has the passion coupled with a lot of innocence. The best part is that the two characters share so much on every level: intelligence, curiosity, strong moral compasses and strong work ethic. Such strength is bound to create tension in a close relationship such as a marriage, especially in that more traditional time. That is why I would like to see them married before the show ends. They could explore the challenges and joys of working together as a couple. Add possible children, whether adopted or natural, and there is plenty of material for lots of background to solving the cases of the day.
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Post by snacky on Mar 6, 2014 20:44:05 GMT
Ok Snacky. Sorry but I don't know the acronym UST. But I think I understand what you are saying. When ( I am not going to say "if" because that would be unthinkable!) they get together it will be quite the explosion. She has the know how, he has the passion coupled with a lot of innocence. The best part is that the two characters share so much on every level: intelligence, curiosity, strong moral compasses and strong work ethic. Such strength is bound to create tension in a close relationship such as a marriage, especially in that more traditional time. That is why I would like to see them married before the show ends. They could explore the challenges and joys of working together as a couple. Add possible children, whether adopted or natural, and there is plenty of material for lots of background to solving the cases of the day. UST = Unresolved Sexual Tension. I picked it up from the X-Files fandom many years ago, and I (wrongly) assumed it was common to all shipper fandoms. I agree there are plot lines that can be followed after marriage, and I do hope that takes place before the end of the show. But the stakes are higher before marriage. I think audience interest would be better held while people are cheering on various pairings and advocating for marriage. I don't really watch Bones, but I know that show went the marriage route this season. I take that as a strong signal that show is near in the end if its run. But if the show surges in popularity and keeps getting better, then that would be evidence of an UST-driven show surviving marriage. |
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Post by carco on Apr 26, 2014 4:53:02 GMT
I'll start this post with a reiteration that I'm a huge fan of the Julia Ogden character. I think for some of us, she represents the kind of woman we wanted to be when we were growing up.....she's strong willed (or stubborn, determined or defiant depending on whose description you choose to use)  She's intelligent, beautiful....well you get the drift. She is one of the main reasons I watch the show. But one thing she has started doing is really becoming annoying (to me). I first noticed it near the end of S6 when she and William were stressed out and began arguing about everything in general, she said something to him along the lines of the high and mighty William Murdoch..... Then in the Return of Sherlock Holmes in S7, she said something very similar but in a nice way (it still annoyed me, though). I can't recall if it happened again in S7, then in the Death of Dr. Ogden, she made a similar comment to William when she was defending her decision to do an autopsy on her father's body, basically asking Wm. would William Murdoch not try to determine the cause of death? Again she was understandably upset with all that was going on at the time. I hope she doesn't resort to that sarcastic approach with William whenever they argue in the future. Professionally and socially speaking she is in a higher position than William but they faced that head on and have spent all these years overcoming the myriad of obstacles that "imbalance" placed in front of them. To what end? Only to have Julia throw out these snarky "high and mighty" comments at him whenever she is stressed out? I don't get it.....that's not Julia. But the fact that William does not take the bait makes me realize he is not a wimp (as some have said on Facebook). I think after 7 years, he has learned how to "manage" Julia. He knows how to "defuse" her. The funny thing is, if Julia knew he was "managing" her, she'd be livid!! |
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Post by snacky on Apr 26, 2014 6:26:55 GMT
But one thing she has started doing is really becoming annoying (to me). I first noticed it near the end of S6 when she and William were stressed out and began arguing about everything in general, she said something to him along the lines of the high and mighty William Murdoch..... Then in the Return of Sherlock Holmes in S7, she said something very similar but in a nice way (it still annoyed me, though). But the fact that William does not take the bait makes me realize he is not a wimp (as some have said on Facebook). I think after 7 years, he has learned how to "manage" Julia. He knows how to "defuse" her. The funny thing is, if Julia knew he was "managing" her, she'd be livid!! Julia called him the "Great Detective" Murdoch in the Sherlock ep, and it came across as flirtatious to me. I think she genuinely regards William as a great detective, and she respects and loves him for it. William can be pompous and he can talk down to Julia under the cover of logic making him always right: I would personally find that annoying. It's one of the reasons I vowed early on to never date lawyers or psychiatrists: one is always "logically" right and the other is manipulative. Of course since Julia is a psychiatrist, she can hold her own against the "lawyer" in William. Usually when Julia complains about William choosing logic over supporting her, I'm on her side. I think she has a valid complaint about him being emotionally unaware (or at least distant), too. Look how long it took him just to ask her out on a date! However, I also think Julia is over sensitive on some points, and that's when the sarcasm tends to come out. She makes a lot of assumptions about what William is thinking: she broke it off without even giving William a chance to gather his thoughts in Shades of Grey and The Tesla Effect. She was the one that took a pass on annulment, yet she blamed William for not instantly abandoning his religious beliefs to support her divorce proceedings. She blamed William for not proposing to her in time, for never challenging her relationship with Darcy, and for not stopping her wedding. Even when she realizes that William is not totally to blame for the break ups and delays, I think she remains frustrated that William didn't just sweep her off her feet and marry her immediately. Darcy proposed to her within a couple months of meeting her for the first time. Julia was old enough to be in spinster territory, which was quite a social stigma at that time, and people might have been blaming her education and career for it. I don't think William was "managing" Julia at her father's autopsy. I thought he finally realized that his habit of offering dissenting opinions was annoying, and that Julia wanted him to have the same sort of faith in her gut feelings as he would have in his own. I think he matured at that moment. My hope is that he wasn't just "giving in" to her but that he genuinely realized that earning Julia's love involved respecting her opinions and trying to follow her logic instead of nitpick it. As for Julia's temper...maybe William is looking forward to some of that fieriness in bed...?  I'm looking for some fanfic involving the "great detective". |
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Post by carco on Apr 26, 2014 21:24:53 GMT
Julia called him the "Great Detective" Murdoch in the Sherlock ep, and it came across as flirtatious to me. I think she genuinely regards William as a great detective, and she respects and loves him for it. William can be pompous and he can talk down to Julia under the cover of logic making him always right: I would personally find that annoying. It's one of the reasons I vowed early on to never date lawyers or psychiatrists: one is always "logically" right and the other is manipulative. Of course since Julia is a psychiatrist, she can hold her own against the "lawyer" in William. Usually when Julia complains about William choosing logic over supporting her, I'm on her side. I think she has a valid complaint about him being emotionally unaware (or at least distant), too. Look how long it took him just to ask her out on a date! However, I also think Julia is over sensitive on some points, and that's when the sarcasm tends to come out. She makes a lot of assumptions about what William is thinking: she broke it off without even giving William a chance to gather his thoughts in Shades of Grey and The Tesla Effect. She was the one that took a pass on annulment, yet she blamed William for not instantly abandoning his religious beliefs to support her divorce proceedings. She blamed William for not proposing to her in time, for never challenging her relationship with Darcy, and for not stopping her wedding. Even when she realizes that William is not totally to blame for the break ups and delays, I think she remains frustrated that William didn't just sweep her off her feet and marry her immediately. Darcy proposed to her within a couple months of meeting her for the first time. Julia was old enough to be in spinster territory, which was quite a social stigma at that time, and people might have been blaming her education and career for it. I don't think William was "managing" Julia at her father's autopsy. I thought he finally realized that his habit of offering dissenting opinions was annoying, and that Julia wanted him to have the same sort of faith in her gut feelings as he would have in his own. I think he matured at that moment. My hope is that he wasn't just "giving in" to her but that he genuinely realized that earning Julia's love involved respecting her opinions and trying to follow her logic instead of nitpick it. As for Julia's temper...maybe William is looking forward to some of that fieriness in bed...? I'm looking for some fanfic involving the "great detective". You have made several well thought out points, snacky. My reaction was more superficial, I'm afraid. I just know how I felt when I heard Julia making those comments. Yes, William over thinks everything which slows down his decision making process. It serves him well as a detective but not so much as a partner for Julia who, as you pointed out, has no problem in following her gut feelings. I think he realizes this has been a problem between them and he has greatly broadened his views over time. Perhaps he is not 'managing' her so much as he is just learning, over time, which buttons not to push. (Brackenreid has been telling him about that stuff for years but not being married, Wm. didn't really pay too much attention before). Now that I give it more thought, "managing" her would mean he had some ability to manipulate her behaviour (and I concede that he is absolutely not there yet). Julia's father said she'd always been defiant, suggesting she has always considered the word "no", or any obstacle put in her way, as a challenge. Defiance isn't always an admirable quality but it is what got her where she is in her career and it's WHO she is. William just sees her as being stubborn/having a mind of her own. William hasn't quite figured out "cause and effect" as it relates to Julia. He understand "logic" as it applies to science or mathematics and and he is slowly realizing that Julia's actions/temper/moods is based on feminine logic.....apples & oranges! Their marriage could be priceless to watch unfold. |
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Post by snacky on Apr 26, 2014 23:21:51 GMT
Perhaps he is not 'managing' her so much as he is just learning, over time, which buttons not to push. (Brackenreid has been telling him about that stuff for years but not being married, Wm. didn't really pay too much attention before). Now that I give it more thought, "managing" her would mean he had some ability to manipulate her behaviour (and I concede that he is absolutely not there yet). Julia's father said she'd always been defiant, suggesting she has always considered the word "no", or any obstacle put in her way, as a challenge. Defiance isn't always an admirable quality but it is what got her where she is in her career and it's WHO she is. William just sees her as being stubborn/having a mind of her own. William hasn't quite figured out "cause and effect" as it relates to Julia. He understand "logic" as it applies to science or mathematics and and he is slowly realizing that Julia's actions/temper/moods is based on feminine logic.....apples & oranges! Their marriage could be priceless to watch unfold. Yes, I think it's a matter of learning what buttons not to push: and Julia should be doing the same. She can be quite patronizing, too. The way she handled the whole butterfly-phobia deal was annoying to me. If William finds butterflies disconcerting, why not just let him be? If you remember, way back in Season 1, William said he admired Julia because she was bold and stubborn. His wedding fantasy featured having to negotiate with Julia over the word obey. I think he just enjoys arguing, and he's probably a little disappointed that sometimes Julia just wants him to stand by and offer his support. I also love the times when William feels he has to do a little work to capture Julia's admiration: like trying to show his appreciation for art, literature, opera, and fine cuisine...or trying to prove he can act. Or trying to prove he can dance, lol. He definitely wins points for trying! I also think Julia developed a taste for dropping everything in the name of a good puzzle just so she could get time with William. |
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Post by carco on Apr 27, 2014 22:41:07 GMT
Perhaps he is not 'managing' her so much as he is just learning, over time, which buttons not to push. (Brackenreid has been telling him about that stuff for years but not being married, Wm. didn't really pay too much attention before). Now that I give it more thought, "managing" her would mean he had some ability to manipulate her behaviour (and I concede that he is absolutely not there yet). Julia's father said she'd always been defiant, suggesting she has always considered the word "no", or any obstacle put in her way, as a challenge. Defiance isn't always an admirable quality but it is what got her where she is in her career and it's WHO she is. William just sees her as being stubborn/having a mind of her own. William hasn't quite figured out "cause and effect" as it relates to Julia. He understand "logic" as it applies to science or mathematics and and he is slowly realizing that Julia's actions/temper/moods is based on feminine logic.....apples & oranges! Their marriage could be priceless to watch unfold. I think he just enjoys arguing, and he's probably a little disappointed that sometimes Julia just wants him to stand by and offer his support. I also love the times when William feels he has to do a little work to capture Julia's admiration: like trying to show his appreciation for art, literature, opera, and fine cuisine...or trying to prove he can act. Or trying to prove he can dance, lol. He definitely wins points for trying! I also think Julia developed a taste for dropping everything in the name of a good puzzle just so she could get time with William. William enjoys intelligent "discussions" (aka arguments/debates) on any number of topics and so does Julia, so in that respect they feed off each other. "Nerds in love" as Peter Mitchell likes to joke. Think of the discussion on time travel that they had in 2oth Centruy Murdoch....they loved it!! When did he try to prove he can act? he can? William? I don't know about puzzles but she certainly enjoys getting up to her elbows in clay while William is around  Just saying.... |
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Post by carco on Apr 27, 2014 23:14:18 GMT
If you remember, way back in Season 1, William said he admired Julia because she was bold and stubborn. His wedding fantasy featured having to negotiate with Julia over the word obey. Aha, see that's what I'm saying. William thinks she only "bold and stubborn" and he finds it kind of sexy in a 19th century and straight laced William, kind of way. But Daddy said she had always been defiant. Now jump forward to S8 with Julia and Emily involved with the suffragette movement. The Inspector is going to be drinking back his scotch, winking at William and saying "What did I tell you Murdoch? Bloody hell!!" |
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Post by snacky on Apr 28, 2014 0:15:10 GMT
William enjoys intelligent "discussions" (aka arguments/debates) on any number of topics and so does Julia, so in that respect they feed off each other. "Nerds in love" as Peter Mitchell likes to joke. Think of the discussion on time travel that they had in 2oth Centruy Murdoch....they loved it!! When did he try to prove he can act? he can? William? I don't know about puzzles but she certainly enjoys getting up to her elbows in clay while William is around Just saying.... William attempted acting in The Filmed Adventures of William Murdoch after Julia scoffed at the idea (a good example of the sarcasm you pointed out). It wasn't his thing. In the end George did a better job of playing William than William did! There's a difference between an engaged debate and just nitpicking whatever someone else says, but it's hard to figure out where the line is. I get into "auto-skeptic" mode a lot where I'm so involved in the challenge of finding the flaws in the argument that I miss that the other person was not looking for an argument. If you're used to winning arguments, it's also hard not to feel superior about it, so I think it's good for William to get taken down a peg or two from time to time. I hope Julia learns to recognize when she's being a shrew. It's probably a factor of having to defend herself all the time. Hmm, clay...mud wrestling? |
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I'm not trying to put the blame on any of them as they've both made mistakes so the posts that are only against Julia are somewhat questionable as not other main characters of the show get this kind of treatment and let's face it they are not perfect.
She's intelligent, beautiful....well you get the drift. She is one of the main reasons I watch the show.
Just saying....