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Post by CosmicCavalcade on May 2, 2012 17:53:31 GMT
The clue he saw was of the broken tool when he had an OBE (out of body experience). He said it was his version of heaven but i agree it was rather strange that he would think what he saw was heaven at all! Maybe we only saw bits of it? It would be rather difficult to set up a whole heavenly environment within the confines of the show. Also, everyone sees something different, though there are a lot of commonalities. I thought he would see his dead fiancee and his mother.
well, it was my impression that they hadn't done the experiment too many times so it was believable to me that she wouldn't have gotten a turn yet.
he went into the tub on purpose because he needed to lower his body temperature and therefore his metabolism, so he wouldn't die (or die as quickly) and also prevent as much tissue damage as possible.
as for how he fell face down and got pulled out the other way, i guess it was a goof.
Anyways, i thoroughly enjoyed this episode or at least the parts with Murdoch. I've recently been doing a lot of reading on NDE (near death experiences), and so i had a pretty good idea of what they were trying to accomplish when they said they were trying to win the right to die.
OBE's are actually quite rare so Murdoch's special in the respect that he experienced one. As well, 'getting a glimpse of the other side' is also quite rare, even more so than the OBE's. Most NDE's are not nearly as detailed as what Murdoch experienced. A lot of times, people only have the realization that they are dead and feel peaceful and that's about it.
It's rather amazing to think that we still don't know anything more about NDE's than we did over a hundred years ago! There are lots of theories as to what's going on but no one knows for sure.
There was an interesting experiment to try and prove that OBE's were real. Someone (not the doctor) placed a hidden object in a spot high above where patients would be able to see. This way the doctor couldn't give any clues as to what it might have been. Then if a patient happened to die during surgery, they would be able to see this object if they experienced an OBE. Unfortunately no one ever did or at least they didn't have full awareness like Murdoch had. So it couldn't be proved one way or the other. I don't know if they've ever repeated this experiment. Because like i said, OBE's are very rare.
It's also interesting to note, that one doesn't have to be religious or even believe in any kind of afterlife to have NDE's. Even people who have never heard of the specifics of what people experience, have reported eerily similar experiences.
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Post by hannikan on May 3, 2012 7:13:53 GMT
I found the beginning very slow and overall I tuned out several times. I'm never bored with MM but this time, I was for much of it. I actually found a lot of it really predictable. I knew what would happen at the station. The only thing that turned out to be different was that I thought The Razor would turn out to be the murderer on the island, too. I thought he would orchestrate moving the other guy to station 2 in order to put the blame on him for the murder of Jacob Oliver and escape in the storm. It looked like a razor at first that Jacob was killed with also. The set up with that guy (I can't find his name on imdb) and why he was in custody at station 2 was unclear. That whole plot was very underwhelming for me. The only redeeming thing about it for me was the interaction btwn George and Thomas. Their relationship developed a little there. George got some respect, which was good. The Razor could have been elusive while something being said about what he did/why he was so hard to track down. What had he just done that he was on the loose then? It shouldn't have been so obvious the "old man" was him, too. If George and Thomas had been busy distracted with other things it would have taken them longer to figure it out. Little bits of things could have come out more slowly instead of the super slow panning around the rooms and boring conversations with the society. It was almost immediate that George told Thomas it must be him. So there was no suspense there and no intrigue about what the character had done or would do.
I didn't find the near death experience society intriguing either. I'm pretty tired of seeing people being injected with dangerous chemicals as if it's nothing. The disregard for human life was just kind of appalling. I know this was based in some historical reality, which is good. Some scientists did seek to incorporate meta-physics into their work. But this wasn't explored in a compelling way to me. The characters were pretty boring. Only Emily showed some feelings and developed a bit as a character. She still leaves me a little cold though. It was strange that William wasn't more disturbed by the group's actions and didn't wrestle with the moral quandary of it. One would think he would have been critical of the society for playing God, since he values his religious beliefs and as detective who brings murderers to justice. He would have probably thought they were taking death and life too lightly. Even though this activity was primarily by choice, he would still have taken issue with that aspect, too. In the Catholic Church, it isn't your place to decide to take your life into your own hands. We know he had become somewhat receptive to the idea of speaking to the dead and the notion of another plane in S1. But I also felt like he realized that his "communication" with Liza was more a part of his grieving process, than actual physical communion with her. I know the idea of seeing heaven would have been desirable for him but one would think these two feelings would have been pulling him in opposite directions. If that had been explored it would have made it more interesting and made it feel more like MM to me. It was oddly un-Murdochy to me. It felt like I wasn't even watching the show. Watching him write about his experience and Emily asking what it was like were unnecessary time wasters to me. There was a lot of expositional dialogue that droned on and on, too. I honestly feel like it will be a chore to watch this own again. I think it would be best for MJ to stick to the books, since she does great with those.
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Post by catymurdoch on May 3, 2012 19:23:31 GMT
Thank u Scrubby for the explanations and I agree Hannikan. In fact, I don't think I will watch that episode again. Shame.  |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on May 3, 2012 20:46:51 GMT
You're welcome caty.  I get what you guys are saying. If i wasn't so fascinated by the whole NDE thing, I too would have found this to be a very lack lustre episode. Even though i am fascinated by it, i can admit that it moved quite slowly at times and i didn't think there was ANY mystery as to what happened to Lillian. They unnecessarily dragged out the reveal for this. The actual mystery at the station house wasn't very good but their character development was. Now they've got an inside joke in relation to Murdoch.  Yeah, you're right Hannikan, they didn't explain nearly enough in relation to the Razer. this seems to be a common fault with the writers when they try to "double up" the story in one episode. Was the old man the Razer? Or was it the police man? How did that other guy even have dirt on him if he didn't know what he looked like? Is George a secret alcoholic? ;D (okay, the last one was a joke, well, sort of anyways, he was really knocking them back though). I think i can answer one question Hannikan. That guy was in custody for his own protection. This way the Razer couldn't get to him before the court date. |
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Post by hannikan on May 3, 2012 21:06:55 GMT
I think i can answer one question Hannikan. That guy was in custody for his own protection. This way the Razer couldn't get to him before the court date. Yeah, that was what I thought but Thomas seemed to treat him like he was a criminal, too. I agree that sometimes when the writers split their focus, it leaves one plot lacking a little. I haven't ever thought the secondary plots when there are two were as poorly developed as this one though. A lot of people liked this one though so we all have different feelings about it. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on May 3, 2012 23:18:06 GMT
well maybe he was a minor criminal and that's how he came to have some dirt on the razer. Then again, Brackenreid thinks most people are criminals so this could just be a case of him acting normally. I'd have liked this secondary plot more (besides having it explained better) if that old guy hadn't turned out to be the razer or someone who works for him. It was just way too obvious to the audience and the characters within the show. If there had been several suspects and they had to really figure something out rather than getting lucky with noticing the shoes, it would have been a much more bearable secondary plot. I mean for someone who was supposedly a mastermind, he sure got caught real easy! In comparison to Sally, he's just plain laughable. |
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Post by hannikan on May 4, 2012 6:35:04 GMT
I mean for someone who was supposedly a mastermind, he sure got caught real easy! In comparison to Sally, he's just plain laughable. Exactly! It made that seem sort of laughable. I guess it was supposed to be that he had gotten cocky about getting caught. The villain's fatal flaw, as it were. I mean he walked right into a police station. But we didn't see enough of him for that to develop. He just sat there looking suspicious. I assumed that Hannah Beaumont injected William at the end because she was afraid that he was onto her for the murder. But William wasn't onto her yet. I suppose it could have been any of the society members besides Emily (who found him) because they thought that if William had the experience of "seeing heaven" he would be more open to their activity. I guess it worked honestly. He was far more accepting of it than I would have thought he'd be. |
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Post by petunia on May 4, 2012 14:37:24 GMT
I found the beginning very slow and overall I tuned out several times.. I am in complete agreement with this. Another lacklustre episode... |
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Post by catymurdoch on May 4, 2012 20:17:08 GMT
I found the beginning very slow and overall I tuned out several times.. I am in complete agreement with this. Another lacklustre episode... Lol, Petunia. I love your quote from Hannikan. It reminded me of what I was doing during that episode too. OK , let's quickly make a cup of tea, nothing is bound to happen in the next 2 minutes. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on May 4, 2012 20:52:02 GMT
i guess i can accept this. he underestimated everyone else because of his cockiness. Whereas Sally always knew not to do this.
yeah, i assumed it was her too because logically it made the most sense. but you're right it could have been any of them pretty much.
anyways, here's hoping next week's is more action packed or at least better written than this one. Julia where art thou? Your spunkiness is severely missed! I wanna see you push some more dumb men into carts. ;D
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Post by hannikan on May 4, 2012 21:03:48 GMT
Yes! We need Julia back. Emily does not replace her. I have read that Julia is supposed to have had a NDE herself so I wonder if some jerk like him is going to attack her. We'll find out next week! I'm looking forward to Murdoch in Toyland. It sounds intriguing. ;D |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on May 5, 2012 0:53:11 GMT
hmm, i think that sounds kinda stupid for her to have an NDE so soon after Murdoch. It's like the writers are trying to give them some common ground so that they can discuss their experiences and become closer as a result. But if they are, they are doing it in a rather ridiculous way. Or it's almost like they want Julia to start being religious so that she'll have more in common with William.
Unless they don't mean her actually dieing. The term NDE is rather ambiguous. It might just refer to fearing for her life, rather than temporarily dieing. However, apparently people can experience full fledged NDE's without actually dieing. If someone almost had a fatal collision, supposedly that's enough to trigger the event.
So you could be right about her getting attacked. Poor Julia, that happens a lot to her! First the serial killer, then the convict that faked being hanged and now this. =(
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Post by shangas on May 5, 2012 2:41:27 GMT
I rather liked this episode. Not the greatest, but still worth watching. I did find it rather um...underwhelming at times, though.
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Post by hannikan on May 5, 2012 4:51:44 GMT
hmm, i think that sounds kinda stupid for her to have an NDE so soon after Murdoch. It's like the writers are trying to give them some common ground so that they can discuss their experiences and become closer as a result. But if they are, they are doing it in a rather ridiculous way. Or it's almost like they want Julia to start being religious so that she'll have more in common with William. Unless they don't mean her actually dieing. The term NDE is rather ambiguous. It might just refer to fearing for her life, rather than temporarily dieing. However, apparently people can experience full fledged NDE's without actually dieing. If someone almost had a fatal collision, supposedly that's enough to trigger the event. So you could be right about her getting attacked. Poor Julia, that happens a lot to her! First the serial killer, then the convict that faked being hanged and now this. =( These were my thoughts, too, but I think it was a near death experience like I think of it. You physically almost died, not you thought you saw heaven stuff. I have almost died when I was hit by a car as a pedestrian. I did not do any of the stuff William and the society thought they did. I would think Julia would have a much more clinical, strictly scientific perspective on it than William did. Plus I think it won't be something she'll think of positively at all, like being attacked. It will be something somewhat traumatic from the sound of it. And like you mentioned she's had a few traumatic things happen. Also her abortion was traumatic because she almost died then, too. These are all probably things she needs work through somehow. |
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Post by petunia on May 5, 2012 15:30:35 GMT
I honestly feel like it will be a chore to watch this own again. I think it would be best for MJ to stick to the books, since she does great with those. Again, I am in full agreement with you. There are some very loud vocal fans of Jennings who have been complaining for years that the TV show is not close enough to the books. It seems to me that this was the show writer's attempt at pleasing them. I think that is one more thing I am disapointed with in S5: the writers seem to be listening to those fan's requests too much. That brings me S6. I read somewhere that Jennings will be writing for S6. Seeing how bad this episode is, I am now concerned about what kind of S6 we will have. |
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Yeah, you're right Hannikan, they didn't explain nearly enough in relation to the Razer. this seems to be a common fault with the writers when they try to "double up" the story in one episode. Was the old man the Razer? Or was it the police man? How did that other guy even have dirt on him if he didn't know what he looked like? Is George a secret alcoholic? ;D (okay, the last one was a joke, well, sort of anyways, he was really knocking them back though).
