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Post by lovemondays on Oct 21, 2014 17:19:47 GMT
Agree. The church stuff was handled very well...though I was a little confused as to what she actually compromised on. I mean, she must have to some extent, no matter how forward thinking the priest was. The discontinuity...you mean like the whole food thing? Or how Brax didn't break out his autograph book and fanboy to the extent he usually does? Or the magic homburg? (but I found that funny). OMG the discontinuity! Mrs. Kitchen's terrible cooking has become both well-established canon and fanon and now William totally loves her stew so much he wants Julia to move in there. Oh, honey....that scene made me cringe and LOL at the same time. You are sooooo stupid it's cute. I think Brax totally fanboyed, but yeah, where was the autograph book? Maybe he doesn't care anymore since he's been through "the change"? But why would he fanboy then? WTH with the hat? It's shown clearly flying through the air and in the next scene it's magically reattached itself to his head? Perhaps it was continuity, or perhaps it was fanservice for Snacky. I did get my tietwiddle last week, so maybe.... Wait, I have to write that fic? But what are you going to write? Discontinuities: -Mrs. Kitchen's cooking - check (although it was nice to see the same actress back. Wm does like her very much.) -Fanboy Brax without his autograph book - check -flying homburg quite visibly flying solo but squarely on Wm's head once on the ground - check - (although I didn't know that magic homburg powers included Thor-like retrieval capabilities.) -George with gun gift badly wrapped in brown paper and red wool - check - what happened to his "flair for giftwrapping"  ?? I did however chuckle when George flipped the gift over his shoulder for Henry to catch. Did anyone else notice Higgin's absence until the bachelor party? I was also annoyed by the lengthy shot of the open barn door while we waited for the bad guy and 'William' to fly through the wall. Too staged and it was obviously a stuntman. Hmph. It's probably just an editing glitch but I noticed it. The standard of production is just that high. I'm actually glad that the girly show was a belly dancer and not a stripper. I fits better with the whole flavour of the show -- more understated than in-your-face. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 21, 2014 17:26:39 GMT
He was obtuse in Future Imperfect! One of the reasons he lost her-he threw her to the enemy in that scene. Not deliberately, but still. That would have made me question things in my relationship as well. This episode just reinforced his obtuseness on some things, though. I'm still trying to figure out the beef stew thing. As people pointed out on Twitter, William hated Mrs. Kitchen's cooking in Convalescence, and the fact that she's a bad cook is also a prominent feature in the book. Maureen Jennings advises for the show, and they take great care with consistency. Did you notice the return of the stuttering banker, and the Inspector's painting in the background? So I have to believe that the MM writing team was deliberately trolling the audience by claiming that William loves Mrs. Kitchen's cooking now. Either he has grown to love it over the years (doubtful since he had already been at the boarding house for some years some time during Convalescence), or Mrs. Kitchen took cooking lessons at some point and hit upon the fact William loves beef stew, or William constructed this fantasy world for himself that Mrs. Kitchen is a great cook in order to defend the notion of bringing Julia home to "Mama" because he has nested there and he can't imagine moving out. By the way I didn't see any strong proof of the Virgin Theory - just some discomfort with "women of the night". William was comfortable with Ettie before, so he might have in mind what Julia will think of him. Ps. Also regarding "building a house" - could William's fantasy life be getting the best him? We just weren't in on those fantasies. I'm guessing that when she found out her son William hated her cooking, she took some cooking classes. But why wasn't this explained? You're right-we talk about continuity a lot here, but the fact is that they are usually very good with the details-which make these all the more glaring. I might mention them, but I'm not going to lambast them-it's still a far superior made product to almost anything else out there. So, yeah-his discomfort with ladies of the night. (Side note: I enjoy thinking of all the polite euphemisms) He's been a cop for 15 years and he's been comfortable around them before-particularly with Ettie. I don't understand getting nervous here-unless it was done for comic effect. So, there's a crass expression I grew up with and there were two variants: "As nervous as a virgin in a whorehouse" and "As nervous as a virgin on their wedding night." Both of these fit William to a T. As soon as that girl propositioned him, he freaked out and normally relatively cool and collected William practically ran out of there-running into a table he was so freaked out. Getting shot at by baddies? No big deal. Getting openly propositioned for sex? RUN!!!!!!!! This is not boding well for the wedding night. Is this why he's dragging his feet? He's suffering from extreme performance anxiety? Understandable if he's a 40-year-old virgin. Understandable that he doesn't want a final fling before he marries (and very characteristic, IMO), but why not just politely decline and leave calmly? Why run away? (And yes, that's literally what he was doing.) Unless that truth hit particularly close to home and it reminded him of an awful truth. I can't believe I'm arguing for virgin!William and you're arguing against-we keep flip-flopping.  Perhaps building a home is a fantasy for William, and another sign to him that he's providing. Given the failure that his father was in providing, I don't think this can be overlooked. It's going to be very important to him. Still, that's one of those discussions he needs to have with Julia. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 21, 2014 17:31:02 GMT
Watched three times last night and decided to wait to post my views, of course I've forgotten most of them now and will have to watch again, life's tough. The one thing I got out of last night's ep is that Julia has finally considered William's feelings with regard to both his faith and the location of the wedding. That was a big moment for me. I've always thought she was an atheist despite the fact we've only had suggestions of her beliefs. If she'd not at least tried to have the wedding in the Catholic church, for William, I would have been very disappointed as she had a church wedding when she married Darcy. I suspect for Darcy and his family rather than herself. This is a big sacrifice for her, even more so than having a Protestant church wedding. She went up ten notches last night. I also liked when Bat was shocked to find William was her fiance and she looked at William and said 'a gentleman?'. Now we know how she looks on William and I'm liking what I'm seeing.
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Post by snacky on Oct 21, 2014 17:37:35 GMT
My favourite part of this episode is Julia's growth in her willingness to embrace and gain some understanding of William's religious beliefs. I practically melted when she said, "I want to marry all of you". Awwww. It's about time! William has done so much of the sacrificing in this relationship. It was a bit of a giggle seeing her squirm at the beginning when she was looking at all the hellfire and damnation depicted in the stained-glass windows. Does anyone else feel a decided lack of enthusiasm for getting this wedding planned? My feeling is they both very much want to BE married, it's the GETTING married that stymies them. I was very interested in the windows Julia looked at. The first was the woman (Mary?) supplicating Christ - which would have looked patriarchal to Julia. The other was of castigation of the body - with BARBED WHIPS!!! I can only imagine what Julia thought of that. Dark places? You could see the wheels in her mind turning as she tried to imagine what this meant for William's view of her and William's view of himself. (She is a psychiatrist, after all). I think there is also consistency in the priest - have to look at prior episodes. He seems very young, though - perhaps more open-minded because of that? Was this the "possibly gay" priest, btw? I wonder if Julia realizes that William may be confessing a LOT of intimate details of their lives to this priest. The cornerstone of the rebellion against the Catholic church was (other than the low qualification standards for priests) the way Confession burrowed in to private lives. There was an increasing idea/standard of "bourgeouis privacy" in the 19th century. The priest could essentially be William's sex therapist. Is Julia comfortable with that? I loved how the priest separated the bureaucracy from the Church from the idea of God's love. William essentially did that when he decided he could marry a divorcee. Apparently he had some underlying support from his priest (even if they didn't directly discuss it) when he had that epiphany). Radical priest there! Perhaps a rogue priest who is basically ignoring the Church Hierarchy all together? I'm now curious about whether that was common or whether that's just a convenient idea foe MM writers. (Could be a future idea for a show in that. I see my excommunication idea brewing...). Anyway, I so loved that we saw Julia crossing a bridge to do something for William. Isn't that what we've all been wanting to see? The unselfish side of Julia? And William was so touched by it, too! Such an "aw, gee" smile, there! He totally didn't see that coming - he's so used to doing everything her way and stepping up to do the modern thing! By the way, I now think they both share responsibility in the wedding delay. Julia also punted on the planning of their first wedding. Remember how Ruby had to step in and do everything? But Ruby isn't here this time. It's time for Mrs. B to come to the rescue! I think William's face just meant that he hadn't anticipated a big event with "flowers" (he didn't even think a church was happening yet). The poor guy probably just couldn't figure out how the wedding was physically going to come about - thus the delay. Well now they have the means and the method. All we need is Mrs. B to step in with the bustle and get those flowers arranged! The part of the promo with William and Julia running down the aisle looked...interesting....  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 21, 2014 17:39:46 GMT
Please write this fic. After watching, this fic is actually starting to materialize. I want to see William drunkenly confess his whole fantasy about building a house, to explain why he's been blowing off the issue of where they are going to live. It's kind of getting down to the wire for them to even rent a place by now, isn't it? From the promo: hope it isn't bad luck to see the groom before the wedding! I know. But she's seen him like that, so I'm guessing that's just her way of saying "hubba hubba". Which I don't blame for her for. Like AT ALL. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 21, 2014 17:41:43 GMT
Please write this fic. After watching, this fic is actually starting to materialize. I want to see William drunkenly confess his whole fantasy about building a house, to explain why he's been blowing off the issue of where they are going to live. It's kind of getting down to the wire for them to even rent a place by now, isn't it? From the promo: hope it isn't bad luck to see the groom before the wedding! Good to hear that you're writing that fic. I'll still write the BP fic if that's what I need to do to create more fic. That's how I roll.  |
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Post by snacky on Oct 21, 2014 17:44:14 GMT
So jungle!William was conspicuously absent when Masterson was putting the moves on his lady. I can't decide if Brax was goading him into action, or to hurry up and ask Julia if Mrs. B could help plan the wedding. Probably both but Brax had a quiet dinner uppermost in his mind, lol. Jungle!William knows his lady can handle herself....he finds it very sexy. H e also knows there's a kick-ass corset and boots under that navy suit.I think Brackenreid saw the moves but William genuinely didn't and/or didn't know what to do about them if he did. Babe in the woods! Julia can handle herself. I like that William isn't threatened. lol at the way lascivious "macho men" always try to put "bland" and "gentle" William down. But Julia knows what she's got!  By the way, I think my favorite scene has nothing to do with Jilliam. I can't get over how William straightened his tie before tackling the bad guy! (and the magic hat staying on!) That scene was the best!!!! There was also a lot of noir-charmant in that scene. The style is reminding me of something. I hope it's not A Clockwork Orange. (Because of Yannick's eyelashes). Did that scene remind anyone else (style-wise) of something? Anyway: NOIR-CHARMANT!!!! |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 21, 2014 17:44:15 GMT
OMG the discontinuity! Mrs. Kitchen's terrible cooking has become both well-established canon and fanon and now William totally loves her stew so much he wants Julia to move in there. Oh, honey....that scene made me cringe and LOL at the same time. You are sooooo stupid it's cute. I think Brax totally fanboyed, but yeah, where was the autograph book? Maybe he doesn't care anymore since he's been through "the change"? But why would he fanboy then? WTH with the hat? It's shown clearly flying through the air and in the next scene it's magically reattached itself to his head? Perhaps it was continuity, or perhaps it was fanservice for Snacky. I did get my tietwiddle last week, so maybe.... Wait, I have to write that fic? But what are you going to write? Discontinuities: -Mrs. Kitchen's cooking - check (although it was nice to see the same actress back. Wm does like her very much.) -Fanboy Brax without his autograph book - check -flying homburg quite visibly flying solo but squarely on Wm's head once on the ground - check - (although I didn't know that magic homburg powers included Thor-like retrieval capabilities.) -George with gun gift badly wrapped in brown paper and red wool - check - what happened to his "flair for giftwrapping" ?? I did however chuckle when George flipped the gift over his shoulder for Henry to catch. Did anyone else notice Higgin's absence until the bachelor party? I was also annoyed by the lengthy shot of the open barn door while we waited for the bad guy and 'William' to fly through the wall. Too staged and it was obviously a stuntman. Hmph. It's probably just an editing glitch but I noticed it. The standard of production is just that high. I'm actually glad that the girly show was a belly dancer and not a stripper. I fits better with the whole flavour of the show -- more understated than in-your-face. Oooh, you're right. I didn't think about George's flair for giftwrapping-I missed that one. Yes, I was half-expecting a burlesque performer procured by Higgins, but belly dancer from Bat works too. You're right-it was tastefully done. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 21, 2014 17:48:45 GMT
est. So yeah...my point was, I liked how they handled it in this ep more than my own story. And yes, those are the sorts of scenes that used to have me firmly in the virgin camp. Now I find it kinda fun to think it could be either way.  I forgot to add in my tl;dr thoughts on the Catholic priest scenes a second a go that I wish we could have seen the actual agreement between Julia and the priest! Epic missing scene there! I'm sure that was intentional on the MM writer's part: they know it's a doctrinal problem, and they are hoping fan discussion will fill it in, lol. Whether William is a virgin or not, score one for the Obtuse, possibly Aspergers camp, lol. The Apron Strings are strong in this one! |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 21, 2014 17:49:02 GMT
Watched three times last night and decided to wait to post my views, of course I've forgotten most of them now and will have to watch again, life's tough. The one thing I got out of last night's ep is that Julia has finally considered William's feelings with regard to both his faith and the location of the wedding. That was a big moment for me. I've always thought she was an atheist despite the fact we've only had suggestions of her beliefs. If she'd not at least tried to have the wedding in the Catholic church, for William, I would have been very disappointed as she had a church wedding when she married Darcy. I suspect for Darcy and his family rather than herself. This is a big sacrifice for her, even more so than having a Protestant church wedding. She went up ten notches last night. I also liked when Bat was shocked to find William was her fiance and she looked at William and said 'a gentleman?'. Now we know how she looks on William and I'm liking what I'm seeing. I know it's hind sight, but I suspected this was what was going to happen. Is it a bit unpalatable for her-yes-but she's doing it for William-because she loves him and it's that important to him. But who would forego a church wedding for her. But she wants to marry all of him, and that's beautiful character growth. I knew she would eventually do it, but it's still great. As for not tolerating others to speak ill of him, I think she's been doing that for a while-well before she agreed to a religious compromise. |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 21, 2014 17:56:59 GMT
Probably both but Brax had a quiet dinner uppermost in his mind, lol. Jungle!William knows his lady can handle herself....he finds it very sexy. H e also knows there's a kick-ass corset and boots under that navy suit.I think Brackenreid saw the moves but William genuinely didn't and/or didn't know what to do about them if he did. Babe in the woods! Julia can handle herself. I like that William isn't threatened. lol at the way lascivious "macho men" always try to put "bland" and "gentle" William down. But Julia knows what she's got! By the way, I think my favorite scene has nothing to do with Jilliam. I can't get over how William straightened his tie before tackling the bad guy! (and the magic hat staying on!) That scene was the best!!!! There was also a lot of noir-charmant in that scene. The style is reminding me of something. I hope it's not A Clockwork Orange. (Because of Yannick's eyelashes). Did that scene remind anyone else (style-wise) of something? Anyway: NOIR-CHARMANT!!!! I'm trying out scenarios in my head to get Noir-charmant 'out there' at the screening. |
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Post by lovemondays on Oct 21, 2014 17:59:21 GMT
est. So yeah...my point was, I liked how they handled it in this ep more than my own story. And yes, those are the sorts of scenes that used to have me firmly in the virgin camp. Now I find it kinda fun to think it could be either way. I forgot to add in my tl;dr thoughts on the Catholic priest scenes a second a go that I wish we could have seen the actual agreement between Julia and the priest! Epic missing scene there! I'm sure that was intentional on the MM writer's part: they know it's a doctrinal problem, and they are hoping fan discussion will fill it in, lol. Whether William is a virgin or not, score one for the Obtuse, possibly Aspergers camp, lol. The Apron Strings are strong in this one! You nailed it on all 3 points. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 21, 2014 18:02:26 GMT
Agree. The church stuff was handled very well...though I was a little confused as to what she actually compromised on. I mean, she must have to some extent, no matter how forward thinking the priest was. The discontinuity...you mean like the whole food thing? Or how Brax didn't break out his autograph book and fanboy to the extent he usually does? Or the magic homburg? (but I found that funny). I think the priest was compromising, not Julia. He just wanted the opportunity to talk to Julia about William's faith. The sign he was compromising was when he said there was a difference between love of God and Church Hierarchy. Considering Catholicism, especially in the late 19th century, was all about the Hierarchy, my spidey senses are tingling on a bit of a "modernizing" rogue priest there. He might even be verging on heresy. Future story line? On the discontinuity - Brackenreid certainly did fanboy! He practically gave Bat Masterson run of the Station! I'm sure he asked for an autograph off screen. He bought the Gun that Tamed the West, didn't he? On the Beef Stew? Hmm. That's such an epic discontinuity that I think there has to be some meaning to it. Or perhaps it's fan trolling? I just can't believe with Maureen Jennings advising that it's an accidental flub. I think it's meant to be funny. If it's a troll, maybe it's poking fun at people who have watched all 8 seasons and know these things...? On the magic homburg - I'm so convinced Yannick did that on purpose. I LOVE YOU YANNICK FOR DOING THAT! The Magic Homburg rules!!!!! |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 21, 2014 18:06:53 GMT
My favourite part of this episode is Julia's growth in her willingness to embrace and gain some understanding of William's religious beliefs. I practically melted when she said, "I want to marry all of you". Awwww. It's about time! William has done so much of the sacrificing in this relationship. It was a bit of a giggle seeing her squirm at the beginning when she was looking at all the hellfire and damnation depicted in the stained-glass windows. Does anyone else feel a decided lack of enthusiasm for getting this wedding planned? My feeling is they both very much want to BE married, it's the GETTING married that stymies them. I was very interested in the windows Julia looked at. The first was the woman (Mary?) supplicating Christ - which would have looked patriarchal to Julia. The other was of castigation of the body - with BARBED WHIPS!!! I can only imagine what Julia thought of that. Dark places? You could see the wheels in her mind turning as she tried to imagine what this meant for William's view of her and William's view of himself. (She is a psychiatrist, after all). I think there is also consistency in the priest - have to look at prior episodes. He seems very young, though - perhaps more open-minded because of that? Was this the "possibly gay" priest, btw? I wonder if Julia realizes that William may be confessing a LOT of intimate details of their lives to this priest. The cornerstone of the rebellion against the Catholic church was (other than the low qualification standards for priests) the way Confession burrowed in to private lives. There was an increasing idea/standard of "bourgeouis privacy" in the 19th century. The priest could essentially be William's sex therapist. Is Julia comfortable with that? I loved how the priest separated the bureaucracy from the Church from the idea of God's love. William essentially did that when he decided he could marry a divorcee. Apparently he had some underlying support from his priest (even if they didn't directly discuss it) when he had that epiphany). Radical priest there! Perhaps a rogue priest who is basically ignoring the Church Hierarchy all together? I'm now curious about whether that was common or whether that's just a convenient idea foe MM writers. (Could be a future idea for a show in that. I see my excommunication idea brewing...). Anyway, I so loved that we saw Julia crossing a bridge to do something for William. Isn't that what we've all been wanting to see? The unselfish side of Julia? And William was so touched by it, too! Such an "aw, gee" smile, there! He totally didn't see that coming - he's so used to doing everything her way and stepping up to do the modern thing! By the way, I now think they both share responsibility in the wedding delay. Julia also punted on the planning of their first wedding. Remember how Ruby had to step in and do everything? But Ruby isn't here this time. It's time for Mrs. B to come to the rescue! I think William's face just meant that he hadn't anticipated a big event with "flowers" (he didn't even think a church was happening yet). The poor guy probably just couldn't figure out how the wedding was physically going to come about - thus the delay. Well now they have the means and the method. All we need is Mrs. B to step in with the bustle and get those flowers arranged! The part of the promo with William and Julia running down the aisle looked...interesting.... Good points about the stained glass-that would definitely have made an impression upon her. As for confession details, she may not know every detail, but I think she's going to just let it go. Catholicism is a part of William and it's important to separate him from it. As far as the priest-I definitely saw shades of the current pope in that portrayal and I think that's an important consideration. You can be spiritual and believe in a higher power without being uber-religious, and that doesn't mean that these people are intolerant either. Religion and spirituality are two very different things. No, Julia wasn't super driven about planning her first wedding, but that was because she didn't want to actually go through with it-I think she was subconsciously hoping William would put a stop to it before it ever got that far. But he didn't.  Ruby may have taken over in an effort to make it real to Julia and to get her to stop it herself, but petulant and selfish, she wouldn't. She cut off her nose to spite her own face there and she paid a high price. I'm hoping that's William's nightmare scenario. Speaking of nightmares, have you seen a closeup of the dress. Oh, no, no, and no. Please be a nightmare, please?22ontariostreet.tumblr.com/post/100589105879/episode-100-holy-matrimony-murdoch-3rd-novemeber |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 21, 2014 18:13:09 GMT
Probably both but Brax had a quiet dinner uppermost in his mind, lol. Jungle!William knows his lady can handle herself....he finds it very sexy. H e also knows there's a kick-ass corset and boots under that navy suit.I think Brackenreid saw the moves but William genuinely didn't and/or didn't know what to do about them if he did. Babe in the woods! Julia can handle herself. I like that William isn't threatened. lol at the way lascivious "macho men" always try to put "bland" and "gentle" William down. But Julia knows what she's got! By the way, I think my favorite scene has nothing to do with Jilliam. I can't get over how William straightened his tie before tackling the bad guy! (and the magic hat staying on!) That scene was the best!!!! There was also a lot of noir-charmant in that scene. The style is reminding me of something. I hope it's not A Clockwork Orange. (Because of Yannick's eyelashes). Did that scene remind anyone else (style-wise) of something? Anyway: NOIR-CHARMANT!!!! There's no doubt that she can't take care of herself-I just think William needs to clue in on these things a little better. Even if he didn't intervene, he could have enjoyed her take down. But he wasn't even paying attention-I'm really thinking Murdoch had to clue him in on what was happening. That said, I hope I see Julia take on some more substance soon. I know they have to take care of the wedding, but there's been little of her being anything other than the little lady this season. As for the tie straightening scene-OMG YASSSSSSS! I loved that bit-it's third to his freakout at the bordello and and nervousness with the belly dancer. I love nervous William. So much reaction win in this episode! |
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Ruby may have taken over in an effort to make it real to Julia and to get her to stop it herself, but petulant and selfish, she wouldn't. She cut off her nose to spite her own face there and she paid a high price. 