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Post by snacky on Dec 2, 2014 8:55:59 GMT
I hear you on Julia this season-even though she wasn't in the morgue for six and seven, she was still more BAMFY than she has been this season. But, as you guys told me last week, I need to give her (the writers) the chance to be happy in how she and William are enjoying one another, and maybe this episode is the turning point? She's made her concession as a married woman (through no fault of her husband's) and now she comes back swinging in a different guise? Even last week, I think everyone agreed with you about Julia being marginalized. It's still too early to be talking about the death of her character, though - and it's not too late for a turn-around (IMHO). I totally agree that we need BAMFy Julia! Is it your birthday today, too? I am totally confused on this birthday thing. If it is - Happy Birthday!
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 2, 2014 12:19:29 GMT
I hear you on Julia this season-even though she wasn't in the morgue for six and seven, she was still more BAMFY than she has been this season. But, as you guys told me last week, I need to give her (the writers) the chance to be happy in how she and William are enjoying one another, and maybe this episode is the turning point? She's made her concession as a married woman (through no fault of her husband's) and now she comes back swinging in a different guise? Even last week, I think everyone agreed with you about Julia being marginalized. It's still too early to be talking about the death of her character, though - and it's not too late for a turn-around (IMHO). I totally agree that we need BAMFy Julia! Is it your birthday today, too? I am totally confused on this birthday thing. If it is - Happy Birthday! My birthday is tomorrow. Another year closer to death! Yay! My only concern is that the longer the show waits to do anything to restore BAMFness, the less likely it becomes. However, I'm going to wait and see if the show was giving the couple a few episodes of marital bliss before restoring BAMFness. But, I'm still trying to mentally prepare myself for a Se7en style ending for the season. I'm fairly positive that they're will be a season 9 now-all signs seem to point to that! That said, this softer, gentle Julia seems to be giving off signs of fertility as well-I noticed that she's just seemed a bit rounder in various episodes, and others here have picked up on other cues. I don't know if that's deliberate or not, but it shall be interesting to see if it is. Although I don't hope it is. No Cousin Oliver please! Although this is the second time 206 has popped up in the season-I'm like Snacky-I'm starting to think that has significance-such as episode 206-an episode that dealt with Julia's abortion. Might it be that someone threatened to expose it-ruining her and William? Sorry DeskSgtHodge-I know how you hate speculation. Can I just say that I loved George the Man in this ep? I don't know that I'm hard core into Edna, but I really like who George is with Edna and Simon.
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Post by randomkiwibirds on Dec 2, 2014 14:17:54 GMT
She never took into consideration what effect standing for office would have on William's career. The question for me is - what "career" did William have going anyway? It's not like "the Catholic" was going anywhere already? What are they going to give him for Julia backing down? I know-my thoughts exactly. It's not like he is the next hotshot police inspector or anything. He;s just a dectective who occasionally saves the mayor's life.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 2, 2014 14:24:14 GMT
The question for me is - what "career" did William have going anyway? It's not like "the Catholic" was going anywhere already? What are they going to give him for Julia backing down? I know-my thoughts exactly. It's not like he is the next hotshot police inspector or anything. He;s just a dectective who occasionally saves the mayor's life. After all he's done, would they really fire him? Would they be that stupid? And, is this the last we've heard of this?
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Post by randomkiwibirds on Dec 2, 2014 14:32:59 GMT
I know-my thoughts exactly. It's not like he is the next hotshot police inspector or anything. He;s just a dectective who occasionally saves the mayor's life. After all he's done, would they really fire him? Would they be that stupid? And, is this the last we've heard of this? I don't think they would have actually fired him. But politicians are notoriously dumb. I feel like it isn't. I feel like Julia rolled over too soon-I was thinking this arc was going to play out for another episode or two before she decides not to run. IDK I feel like there was this big build up and then it just kind of fizzled.
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Post by randomkiwibirds on Dec 2, 2014 15:12:56 GMT
Okay overall General thoughts of the episode-
On Julia--
I agree with everyone elses comments that Julia seems a bit off this season. I've been watching quite a bit of S7 lately and I noticed that Julia was around a lot more then, and I don't know how to put this but-so far this season has been very "Julia light" compared to others. TBH-I would honestly like a throwback to Seasons 1-3-when William and Julia were out somewhere and a dead body appears/someone dies. I think a throwback to the "early years" would be a good thing for them to have this season (even though they have already wrapped up filming) since they were on the tribute track.
Was Julia right to call it quits this early in the campagin? No I think she should have stuck with it for another episode or two. Maybe even just to prove her point to Brackenreid.
I wish she had raised her voice with Brackenreid as she did in Victor Victorian. I felt that a loud stern "BUT OUT!" would have been more in line with her character. (Just you know-not those exact words)
Emily I thought brought up a valid point. That if she and William were not married would she go through with it? And I feel that Liillan Moss's comment about when a woman marries she loses part of herself was rather significant. Maybe that's what Helene's trying to portray?
On Brackenried--
William was aware of the ramifications of Julia running for office. And I think that Brackenreid over played the whole "He could get fired thing" to Julia.
And as much as I really wanted to slap some sense into him Brackenried does have a point. Society at this point would see William and Julia as one-what the wife does reflects on the husband. Regardless to how the pair lives, and how "modern" their relationship is-at this point (even though times were changing). I see Brackenried acting as the voice of society or as the "fatherly figure" that William pointed out.
On William--
I'm going to try and wrap this up pretty quick now as I need to go to my Horse Riding Lesson.
Since when did he have a career in the poliece force anyway? It has been made pretty clear to him that because of his religion that he will not be advancing past the point of Detective. (OTW1 & GC) I think that this is one of the reasons he wasn't to concerned. Also the Mayor owes him a few-Blast of Silence-Murdoch and the Cloud of Doom...?
On the Murder-
206. That is quite possibly significant.
As I said I'm running out of time here so anyway
I like the fact that they brought back some old characters, Rico-as it appears, Edision sr. and the Mayor. Also nice tie in with the Masons.
The murder it'self wasnt that complex, but it wasn't screamingly obvious who did it. I think that that whole scene with Rico and Edison sr. at the end was really well done.
BTW-Did anyone else notice the similarites of how Julia and William ended the conversations with Emily and Brax?
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Post by snacky on Dec 2, 2014 16:23:10 GMT
My High Voltage Thoughts before I have to run out the door - I thought the discovery of the murderer was a bit deus ex machina. But the reason was the episode just didn't have enough time to develop several plots at once. They can't do Gedna, Team Lillian Moss, Jilliam, The Campaign, AND a murder mystery all in the same episode! There was even some Detective Gadget in there. The writers tried to defy the laws of time and space, but they ended up just sacrificing the mystery. I don't think this is wise - especially when they already did this several times this season. I think the reason they are doing all this scattershot character development is that they need to replace Jilliam, but they aren't sure how. Someone needs to remind the writers that Jilliam evolved out of the pursuit of the mysteries themselves. Trying to do character development "on top" of everything else just won't work - especially not with so many characters to develop. Okay, that said, I really liked all the character development. I do think only a long term fan would like it, though. I think the bit with Brackenreid and the Mayor was handled really well: it was just an "Old Boys" chat about what was for the best. When Brackenreid talked with Julia, it was a Fatherly chat about "what was for the best". When Brackenreid got huffy with William I think he was just caught by surprise. Also, remember, Brackenreid has run for political office before: he is in a good position to give advice on this subject and regard both William and Julia as naive about the personal ramifications. I kind of liked the implication that for once William's general "denseness about people" was working in favor of his marriage. I was amused by the idea that he was more enthusiastic about Julia running for office than Julia was. Need to see that in some more fanfic! It seems he has been overtaken by the vision of the future there, and he's impervious to "the realities of the situation". btw, is it just me, or is William given to making pompous pronouncements about stuff - lol. Don't have time to go into Team Lillian Moss (Warrior Princess!) or George the Man now, but I agree with FallenBelle - this was a character development episode. And I hope it's the last one of the season! Ps. Dang it - there should have been more about The Hysteria Machine!
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 2, 2014 16:25:57 GMT
Okay overall General thoughts of the episode- On Julia-- I agree with everyone elses comments that Julia seems a bit off this season. I've been watching quite a bit of S7 lately and I noticed that Julia was around a lot more then, and I don't know how to put this but-so far this season has been very "Julia light" compared to others. TBH-I would honestly like a throwback to Seasons 1-3-when William and Julia were out somewhere and a dead body appears/someone dies. I think a throwback to the "early years" would be a good thing for them to have this season (even though they have already wrapped up filming) since they were on the tribute track. Was Julia right to call it quits this early in the campagin? No I think she should have stuck with it for another episode or two. Maybe even just to prove her point to Brackenreid. I wish she had raised her voice with Brackenreid as she did in Victor Victorian. I felt that a loud stern "BUT OUT!" would have been more in line with her character. (Just you know-not those exact words) Emily I thought brought up a valid point. That if she and William were not married would she go through with it? And I feel that Liillan Moss's comment about when a woman marries she loses part of herself was rather significant. Maybe that's what Helene's trying to portray? On Brackenried-- William was aware of the ramifications of Julia running for office. And I think that Brackenreid over played the whole "He could get fired thing" to Julia. And as much as I really wanted to slap some sense into him Brackenried does have a point. Society at this point would see William and Julia as one-what the wife does reflects on the husband. Regardless to how the pair lives, and how "modern" their relationship is-at this point (even though times were changing). I see Brackenried acting as the voice of society or as the "fatherly figure" that William pointed out. On William-- I'm going to try and wrap this up pretty quick now as I need to go to my Horse Riding Lesson. Since when did he have a career in the poliece force anyway? It has been made pretty clear to him that because of his religion that he will not be advancing past the point of Detective. (OTW1 & GC) I think that this is one of the reasons he wasn't to concerned. Also the Mayor owes him a few-Blast of Silence-Murdoch and the Cloud of Doom...? On the Murder- 206. That is quite possibly significant. As I said I'm running out of time here so anyway I like the fact that they brought back some old characters, Rico-as it appears, Edision sr. and the Mayor. Also nice tie in with the Masons. The murder it'self wasnt that complex, but it wasn't screamingly obvious who did it. I think that that whole scene with Rico and Edison sr. at the end was really well done. BTW-Did anyone else notice the similarites of how Julia and William ended the conversations with Emily and Brax? Re: Julia: I would have liked for Julia to have fought back more with Brax too, but that's the thing about being married-you are responsible for them and their well-being to a point-just as they are for yours. So, in other words, it's not just Julia anymore as it was Victor/Victorian-she's responsible for William now-and as he proved in standing up to Brax he's responsible for her as well. It's very much a modern relationship in which they support one another's goals and wishes and try not to do anything to hurt them deliberately. Should Julia have known that it might cause trouble for William, probably; but she thought that his reputation would shield him more than it did, and it was her taking the actions-not him. Even William was expecting that, and seemed fine with it. She'd forgotten how archaic the old guard was when it came to maintaining the status quo, and when she was threatened with William losing his job, she lost her nerve. She could handle the ramifications on her part, but for William to face censure and possibly even a demotion based upon her actions was unacceptable-she lost the ability to do what she wanted without concern for others when she married. Lillian was right-you do lose a piece of yourself when you marry. It's not a bad thing, IMO, but there is truth in that. You raise an excellent point on maybe Helene is trying to play a Julia struggling with that unintended consequence of marriage. It may have likely been a non-issue or nowhere near big a deal in her first marriage because she wasn't as emotionally invested in Darcy, and he wasn't a weakness. Re: Brackenreid: I wanted to hit him too, but he did have a point. She needed to be made aware that what she was doing was going to have real consequences for William-I'm not sure she understood that fully having never played the political police games that William and Brackenreid have played. William knew, and had accepted that risk in his support of Julia, but I don't think she did. Ultimately, William losing his job as a result of her actions was not something she wanted to be responsible for. I still think she thought the Inspector was just being a chauvinist when William quietly acknowledged that those things could happen-that was a major wake-up call for her. Was Brax an ass about it? Yeah. Did it need to be said? Yeah, it did. Re: William: I think as late as last season William was hoping his track record might be enough to compensate for his faith, but when he got passed over for acting Inspector, he saw that they were never going to accept his faith. No matter how many times "the Catholic" has saved their butts, he's expendable. Did anyone else think B was telling William he was pu**y whipped in their end conversation-the whole part of he married a firebrand, she's persuasive, but for once wear the pants? He was pretty rude to both W/J, IMO. The more I think about it, I think this may have even shocked Mr. B, and may have led to him having such a heavy hand-if it isn't enough for a man who has had his life saved by William's skills and knowledge to just overlook the Catholic detail, and continue to hold that and his wife against him, maybe William's job really was in danger, and Mr. B was acting out of love. He'd rather face the ire of his "child" rather than that child know how little the city appreciated William's expertise and service. They've had their disagreements over the years, but I can't think of things having been this strained against them ever. This had better be explored more next week. Overall, the mystery was good, but it wasn't that significant for me-it was the relationships that stole the thunder here-not so much W/J-they were adorable in their commitment to one another and progressiveness, but the non-romantic ships were what was outstanding: Mr. B./Julia, Julia/Emily, Emily/Lillian (okay, this one has some romantic undertones), Mr. B/William, Mr. B/Scotch, George/Simon, to a lesser extent George/Edna. This week was stellar character development, last week was a stellar mystery. Random Question: Does anyone else wonder when W/J had time to get wedding photos done? They didn't do it before, and they took off pretty quickly after the wedding...are we to suppose they posed for a few snaps while they were waiting for the carriage?
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Post by snacky on Dec 2, 2014 16:30:17 GMT
On Brackenried-- William was aware of the ramifications of Julia running for office. And I think that Brackenreid over played the whole "He could get fired thing" to Julia. On William-- Since when did he have a career in the poliece force anyway? It has been made pretty clear to him that because of his religion that he will not be advancing past the point of Detective. (OTW1 & GC) I think that this is one of the reasons he wasn't to concerned. Also the Mayor owes him a few-Blast of Silence-Murdoch and the Cloud of Doom...? BTW-Did anyone else notice the similarites of how Julia and William ended the conversations with Emily and Brax? I think Brackenreid alluded at the ramifications and Julia inflated them (as Brackenreid intended). But that's how Old Boy politics works, and continues to work to this day. On William - EXACTLY! "The Catholic" didn't exactly have a career in the first place! Which means the only implied threat is to fire him. The Greatest Detective in the King's Realm. The man who has saved the city of Toronto and the Mayor's life specifically. There is really not a lot of threat that can be held out over him, and that's the Establishment's own fault. And note...William is not a Mason, either. He's not even part of the Old Boy's network issuing these threats! Even George is a Mason! I totally noticed William and Julia "matching style". Perhaps that was to allude to them "losing a piece of themselves"and will lead up to some problems later. But for now it was cute. I wanted to see William all disappointed that Julia wasn't running for office.
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Post by snacky on Dec 2, 2014 16:38:47 GMT
Did anyone else think B was telling William he was pu**y whipped in their end conversation-the whole part of he married a firebrand, she's persuasive, but for once wear the pants? He was pretty rude to both W/J, IMO. I think Mr. B might have have gotten a little shock himself during that conversation when he partially realized he was talking about himself, and his own fears of what it meant to be pushed around by Margaret. But I do think until that moment he was genuinely trying to give good advice. I think it was interesting he referred to these pressures coming from William's "political masters" when they were more Brackenreid's political masters. Brackenreid is the one in the Masons. Brackenreid is the one with a career. Maybe this Old Boy chat was really about Brackenreid's career and Brackenreid's ability to control William? One of the way men control each other in all-male hierarchies to tell each other to man up or threaten their masculinity in various ways. The Chief Inspector post is open.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 2, 2014 16:48:43 GMT
Did anyone else think B was telling William he was pu**y whipped in their end conversation-the whole part of he married a firebrand, she's persuasive, but for once wear the pants? He was pretty rude to both W/J, IMO. I think Mr. B might have have gotten a little shock himself during that conversation when he partially realized he was talking about himself, and his own fears of what it meant to be pushed around by Margaret. But I do think until that moment he was genuinely trying to give good advice. I think it was interesting he referred to these pressures coming from William's "political masters" when they were more Brackenreid's political masters. Brackenreid is the one in the Masons. Brackenreid is the one with a career. Maybe this Old Boy chat was really about Brackenreid's career and Brackenreid's ability to control William? One of the way men control each other in all-male hierarchies to tell each other to man up or threaten their masculinity in various ways. The Chief Inspector post is open. Excellent point about Brax trying to move up, and how maybe even William might get a promotion out of it. I doubt it, but still...those political masters are still William's too, and they could make his life hell if they wanted. It would be sheer stupidity, but they could do it. Do we know that Brax realized he was talking about himself? I'm not convinced...it's just interesting that just last week he admitted he arrested Margaret and got turned on her attitude and spunk. Then he tells William he's P-whipped? Anyone seen the preview of next week's ep? What kind of show are we looking at?
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Post by Hodge on Dec 2, 2014 17:04:04 GMT
Thank you! I hear you on Julia this season-even though she wasn't in the morgue for six and seven, she was still more BAMFY than she has been this season. But, as you guys told me last week, I need to give her (the writers) the chance to be happy in how she and William are enjoying one another, and maybe this episode is the turning point? She's made her concession as a married woman (through no fault of her husband's) and now she comes back swinging in a different guise? Anyone else catch that there's a new Chief Constable? No name given... I think she's going to be active in the suffragette movement all this season so just because she's stepped down as a candidate doesn't mean she's not going to get into trouble, hope she doesn't make too much trouble for William though. I'm glad she took William into consideration and realized her actions reflected on him, she's finally learned that it's not all about her. I wonder what William will think of it though, I hope they deal with that and don't just ignore it. I noticed the Chief Constable comment, I wonder if we'll get to see him later in the season.
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Post by Hodge on Dec 2, 2014 17:13:34 GMT
She never took into consideration what effect standing for office would have on William's career. The question for me is - what "career" did William have going anyway? It's not like "the Catholic" was going anywhere already? What are they going to give him for Julia backing down? Keeping his job!
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Post by Hodge on Dec 2, 2014 17:15:00 GMT
Oh it was finally CC's bday today, too, after all the build up? Happy Birthday, CC! Correct me if I'm wrong, but CC's birthday was last week-The Painting was her B-day present! Barbarama's is/was today? **is confused with time zones** Yes you're right, I realized that this morning.
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Post by Fallenbelle on Dec 2, 2014 17:22:26 GMT
Thank you! I hear you on Julia this season-even though she wasn't in the morgue for six and seven, she was still more BAMFY than she has been this season. But, as you guys told me last week, I need to give her (the writers) the chance to be happy in how she and William are enjoying one another, and maybe this episode is the turning point? She's made her concession as a married woman (through no fault of her husband's) and now she comes back swinging in a different guise? Anyone else catch that there's a new Chief Constable? No name given... I think she's going to be active in the suffragette movement all this season so just because she's stepped down as a candidate doesn't mean she's not going to get into trouble, hope she doesn't make too much trouble for William though. I'm glad she took William into consideration and realized her actions reflected on him, she's finally learned that it's not all about her. I wonder what William will think of it though, I hope they deal with that and don't just ignore it. I noticed the Chief Constable comment, I wonder if we'll get to see him later in the season. I hope we get woman of action Julia in the remaining episodes. Even if she's not a candidate, hopefully she's a thorn in the side of the chauvinist pigs! While we didn't see Julia telling William that she was dropping out, I hope we'll see him reacting to that news in some form. So is it CI, then CC? Just making sure I get this straight.
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