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Post by Hodge on Oct 10, 2014 22:18:22 GMT
The problem was they had written themselves into a corner with the S7 cliffhanger. They had to deal with what happened to the inspector or fans would be up in arms. I didn't mind OtW, it slowly built to the clashes at the end and was well done even if it wasn't what many would have liked. That's true, and the more I think about it, the more I think the waterfront fight was supposed to be the "big cinematic thing". The problem was breaking it into two episodes. They should have made it a two hour premiere and made it an "event" that way instead. I agree, or at least run the two episodes back to back which would have been easy as MM is on at 7 & 8 on Mondays. |
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Post by carco on Oct 10, 2014 22:24:20 GMT
When she mentioned in passing that the area seemed nice, he saw only that it would likely be too expensive. Once again, she laughed it off but that can be really annoying if you get that reaction time after time and especially when you are having to build a life with that person. Getting off topic a bit, I think the Inspector has ID'd the change that the police (including Murdoch) are going to face day in and day out from hereon, they don't rule the roost in Toronto anymore. What they say doesn't necessarily go and respect for the uniform and the position is nothing like the good old days. Everything is changing. Julia is becoming a staunch supporter of women's rights and thanks to her suggestion, the woman are fighting with the police and being arrested -- on the streets, in public! William may understand it because he sees Julia as a whole person not just a woman, but the law is the law and everything is going to hell in a handbasket. Even if he CAN let her out of jail (assuming she and/or Emily are jailed....looks like Emily is behind bars anyway), its quite possible he will choose to leave her (and/or Emily) to do her/their time in jail. I don't think he'd care how that would "look" (detective's bride to be in jail) but he will know Julia would be furious with him since she knows he let Eva Moon out of jail instead of "choosing" her. I'm really looking forward to Pt 2!! Well said. I don't think this is going to be a big crisis, but it is something Julia's going to have to address soon (probably next episode). She may even have planned on bringing it up when she was talking to William when Slorach and later Emily interrupted them. No, she doesn't expect William to finance her higher standard of living, but she may just now be aware how much of a sore spot it is for him. Having watched this again finally, I'm pretty sure she's figured out that this is what's behind the delayed date, and she's going to take care of it in a respectful way. No, she doesn't expect William to provide for her in her current manner (that's why she has a job) but she probably is going to have to compromise on a house-maybe something that William can at least pay half of. Yes, I agree with your thoughts that Julia is going to have to address it sooner rather than later and I'm also on board with you in that she will likely need to compromise with him on the house, unless he's been socking his money away as others have suggested....that's certainly not out of the realm! Also, whether or not they adopt, with both working full time and no TV dinners available in those days, they are going to need a cook and a housekeeper at the very least. BTW Fallenbelle, really sorry about crediting snacky with the tie "thing" in error, I do remember clearly now that snacky has the Humberg theory and you are, indeed, the author of the tie theory. Both theories continue to hold water, too! |
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Post by snacky on Oct 10, 2014 22:35:12 GMT
Well said. I don't think this is going to be a big crisis, but it is something Julia's going to have to address soon (probably next episode). She may even have planned on bringing it up when she was talking to William when Slorach and later Emily interrupted them. No, she doesn't expect William to finance her higher standard of living, but she may just now be aware how much of a sore spot it is for him. Having watched this again finally, I'm pretty sure she's figured out that this is what's behind the delayed date, and she's going to take care of it in a respectful way. No, she doesn't expect William to provide for her in her current manner (that's why she has a job) but she probably is going to have to compromise on a house-maybe something that William can at least pay half of. Yes, I agree with your thoughts that Julia is going to have to address it sooner rather than later and I'm also on board with you in that she will likely need to compromise with him on the house, unless he's been socking his money away as others have suggested....that's certainly not out of the realm! Also, whether or not they adopt, with both working full time and no TV dinners available in those days, they are going to need a cook and a housekeeper at the very least. BTW Fallenbelle, really sorry about crediting snacky with the tie "thing" in error, I do remember clearly now that snacky has the Humberg theory and you are, indeed, the author of the tie theory. Both theories continue to hold water, too! FallenBelle is definitely the proponent of all things tie-licious. especially the concept of unleashing the beast. But I did make a thing over tie/lapel twiddling for a while, so that might have been why you thought I was the Priestess of the Tie. Dang, I totally forgot about the whole issue of paying for household help. I wonder if that's even crossed William's mind, since he's always relied on his Boarding house landlady for those services? mrsbrisby also brought up the interesting point that William's daydreams imagine a very prosperous future that certainly can't be achieved if he continues to rely on a detective's salary. It would simplify things a great deal if he just moves into Julia's house. |
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Post by carco on Oct 10, 2014 22:40:56 GMT
So, like, is he going to be the first Chippendale or something?  Everything can come off except the black tie? Ok, have to go away and dwell on that thought for a while......  While shirtless William is indeed a nice thought,  I was more in line with that the tie is the keeper of William's "dark places" or erotic urges. If the tie is firmly in place, he's a respectable, proper man. If the tie is off, he's a lusty beast! At least around Julia. You know how a couple smoking used to be code for intimacy had just taken place-I think William being calm around Julia sans tie is going to be MM code for the same thing. Which is why Julia keeps going after the tie-she wants to take it off! LOL! I was watching Murdoch Air last night and noticed their kissing scene after Julia tells Wm. Darcy has agreed to an annulment, Wm was totally in the lead for that one. His hands were on the move! Most of their kisses since then (that I can recall right at the moment) seemed to be Julia kissing William or he being the loving boyfriend. I'm fine however they kiss, but he sure seemed excited to know they could get married!! I'm in the "don't think they've been together yet" camp, but if I was to learn they HAVE then I would jump to the conclusion that it happened that night!! He probably had to go back to the Station House the next morning to pick the tie up off the floor before any of the lads noticed it....  |
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Post by snacky on Oct 10, 2014 22:48:24 GMT
I'm in the "don't think they've been together yet" camp, but if I was to learn they HAVE then I would jump to the conclusion that it happened that night!! He probably had to go back to the Station House the next morning to pick the tie up off the floor before any of the lads noticed it.... LOL! Well, I doubt it because technically it still would have been adultery, but William's assertiveness showed what he had been bottling up all that time... |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 10, 2014 22:58:52 GMT
LOL! I was watching Murdoch Air last night and noticed their kissing scene after Julia tells Wm. Darcy has agreed to an annulment, Wm was totally in the lead for that one. His hands were on the move! Most of their kisses since then (that I can recall right at the moment) seemed to be Julia kissing William or he being the loving boyfriend. I'm fine however they kiss, but he sure seemed excited to know they could get married!! I'm in the "don't think they've been together yet" camp, but if I was to learn they HAVE then I would jump to the conclusion that it happened that night!! He probably had to go back to the Station House the next morning to pick the tie up off the floor before any of the lads noticed it.... They haven't 'been together yet' because later in the season when she has to name a co-respondent for the divorce William says they haven't committed adultery. |
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Post by carco on Oct 10, 2014 23:06:35 GMT
Somewhere along the way and for whatever reasons (I know we discussed this at length in the past) she seems to have "caved" or possibly just matured and developed some fashion sense What I do sense is that while she presently accepts the inevitable when it comes to his reactions to change, will that knee-jerk negative reaction become a sense of irritation to her over time, after they are married. William may understand it because he sees Julia as a whole person not just a woman, but the law is the law and everything is going to hell in a handbasket. Whether we like it or not, I think Julia is dressing up for William. And William appreciates physical beauty. I agree that Julia can get irritated at William's foibles. That's part of what I like about MM. It incorporates those little irritations which make the relationship more "real". Before Talbotrail goes postal, I don't think such things have to destroy the relationship - but they do complicate the relationship and have to be dealt with in some way. The question on Julia's side then becomes: will she have to nag? Can William change? I don't think William would let either Julia or Emily stew in jail - but he wouldn't be able to break them out unless the other station house conveniently left for a wedding! Even though William is open-minded, circumstances are changing too fast for his worldview to shift. I'm sure he has no problem with women's suffrage. But women paying the bills...? She used to become very annoyed at his his rigid and often out of date views of social or ecclesiastic issues mainly I think because he never bothered to question them or update himself. But he's loosened up a lot and has opened his mind to a host of new viewpoints so we see less of that from her now. The things she's up against now are some of the traits he's developed from being a nose to the grindstone, working class, geeky bachelor - like frugality. I think she's more willing to go slower and guide him through these issues. Even today, money is said to be the top cause of problems in a marriage....I don't think it will drive them apart, it is just another thing on which they will have to learn to meet in the middle. I agree that William, like 99.9% of the men in those days, will feel less of a man if his wife is paying the bills. |
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Post by carco on Oct 10, 2014 23:07:45 GMT
LOL! I was watching Murdoch Air last night and noticed their kissing scene after Julia tells Wm. Darcy has agreed to an annulment, Wm was totally in the lead for that one. His hands were on the move! Most of their kisses since then (that I can recall right at the moment) seemed to be Julia kissing William or he being the loving boyfriend. I'm fine however they kiss, but he sure seemed excited to know they could get married!! I'm in the "don't think they've been together yet" camp, but if I was to learn they HAVE then I would jump to the conclusion that it happened that night!! He probably had to go back to the Station House the next morning to pick the tie up off the floor before any of the lads noticed it.... They haven't 'been together yet' because later in the season when she has to name a co-respondent for the divorce William says they haven't committed adultery. Yes, of course! Forgot that ... |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 10, 2014 23:12:43 GMT
I am kind of surprised that there has been so little discussion about YB's direction of this episode. I think he did a fantastic job. The gore at the beginning was certainly a surprise, but I've been watching the The Bridge so ... The way he shot some of the scenes made them really stand out. The shot through the barber's window as the four women walked around the corner coming back from their first trip to Queen's Park was lovely and the last scene in the morgue where Emily was sitting at her desk and William stood behind her was exquisite the way the light shone through the high windows onto the white tiled walls and then the camera moved in on the two of them was terrific, especially the lighting. But the best was the way he inter-cut the fight at the wharf and the fight at Queen's Park. That was genius and something you don't see often enough in television. I give him a pass on the CG stuff because most of it maintained the look and atmosphere they have established for the series. If it were a big budget moving the entire background would have been CG and the all of the action would have been filmed in front of a green screen. Oh, and the scene in his office when she called him a stick in the mud and Slorach comes in behind them--just lovely. This wasn't the one YB directed - he directed Glory Days, the episode after the Waterfront 2-parter. There was a lot of hype about how epic the waterfront eps were supposed to be, but I think most of the hype was being generated by the writer. It is good, but I do wish MM had kept up the tradition of the first ep involving some really big thing like a skyscraper or zeppelin or a submarine. Something that made it like a blockbuster movie. I guess the wharf fight is supposed to do that actually. It may have that effect once the two eps are put together. We'll see! Oh crap. Oh well, it still was beautifully done. |
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Post by carco on Oct 10, 2014 23:13:30 GMT
Anyone notice that while he wearing the jacket, it wasn't buttoned. He's usually fully buttoned up when he sees her-he may have felt uncomfortable about that too. The only time I can think of him not wearing a jacket around her is in Last Train to Kingston, and Unfinished Business.  hmm, I noticed it was unbuttoned at the end of the twiddle, but I thought it was because Julia unbuttoned it. I'll have to watch again. Julia certainly knows how to play him like a Stradivarius! Whoa, wait a minute....in Convalescence, when William dreamed of Julia in bed beside him, wasn't she fiddling with his pyjamas top? So William likes her fiddling with his clothes....and no hat and no tie. In his dreams! |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 10, 2014 23:14:58 GMT
I am kind of surprised that there has been so little discussion about YB's direction of this episode. I think he did a fantastic job. Yannick didn't direct it, it was directed by Laurie Lynd. Yannick directed 803, Glory Days. Regardless of which episode it turns out to be Yannick always directs the first one filmed as he has to do all the prep before all filming starts, after that he's too busy. Yes, I have been informed of this. I can only say in my defense that I was so anxious to see the show I ff through the opening credits. Still it was a masterful job of directing. |
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Post by carco on Oct 10, 2014 23:18:19 GMT
We were introduced to her and got to know her as a well educated woman who came from a well to do family that enjoyed a place in the city's societal circles....and yet she rejected that and lived life on her terms. She didn't care much about clothes or fashions. Somewhere along the way and for whatever reasons (I know we discussed this at length in the past) she seems to have "caved" or possibly just matured and developed some fashion sense and re-awakened her early years experiences of the arts, dancing and fine dining. Maybe it was Ruby's doing or probably from having married Darcy and being thrown into that world again. But all through that I have never seen or sensed that Julia expected more of William. What I do sense is that while she presently accepts the inevitable when it comes to his reactions to change, will that knee-jerk negative reaction become a sense of irritation to her over time, after they are married. William is a brilliant man but when it comes to his "gadgets" and "gizmos" we have often mentioned how odd it is that he can develop these things but can't see how they could be used in the future....(think micro-waves and potato baking rooms!) When she mentioned in passing that the area seemed nice, he saw only that it would likely be too expensive. Once again, she laughed it off but that can be really annoying if you get that reaction time after time and especially when you are having to build a life with that person. Getting off topic a bit, I think the Inspector has ID'd the change that the police (including Murdoch) are going to face day in and day out from hereon, they don't rule the roost in Toronto anymore. What they say doesn't necessarily go and respect for the uniform and the position is nothing like the good old days. Everything is changing. Julia is becoming a staunch supporter of women's rights and thanks to her suggestion, the woman are fighting with the police and being arrested -- on the streets, in public! William may understand it because he sees Julia as a whole person not just a woman, but the law is the law and everything is going to hell in a handbasket. Even if he CAN let her out of jail (assuming she and/or Emily are jailed....looks like Emily is behind bars anyway), its quite possible he will choose to leave her (and/or Emily) to do her/their time in jail. I don't think he'd care how that would "look" (detective's bride to be in jail) but he will know Julia would be furious with him since she knows he let Eva Moon out of jail instead of "choosing" her. I'm really looking forward to Pt 2!! Very well said, Carco. I couldn’t have put it better if I spent a week writing this up myself. I don’t have much more to add to your perceptions. My main letdown with part 1 was having to wait a whole month (err, I mean a week ) to see pt 2. The Inspector, as usual, has knocked the nail in the head and I too look forward to part 2 and a few more episodes further into the season to see how all this plays out. Thanks Ziggy, I'm not able to spend much time catching up on the conversations or even forming my thoughts on all the prospects that the new season has laid out so I thought maybe I wasn't really getting to the point of what I was trying to say. But I guess we're all such fans that we can cut through someone's else's gobbledy-gook and glean some sense out of it !!! Good to know! |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 10, 2014 23:22:35 GMT
I am kind of surprised that there has been so little discussion about YB's direction of this episode. I think he did a fantastic job. The gore at the beginning was certainly a surprise, but I've been watching the The Bridge so ... The way he shot some of the scenes made them really stand out. The shot through the barber's window as the four women walked around the corner coming back from their first trip to Queen's Park was lovely and the last scene in the morgue where Emily was sitting at her desk and William stood behind her was exquisite the way the light shone through the high windows onto the white tiled walls and then the camera moved in on the two of them was terrific, especially the lighting. But the best was the way he inter-cut the fight at the wharf and the fight at Queen's Park. That was genius and something you don't see often enough in television. I give him a pass on the CG stuff because most of it maintained the look and atmosphere they have established for the series. If it were a big budget moving the entire background would have been CG and the all of the action would have been filmed in front of a green screen. Oh, and the scene in his office when she called him a stick in the mud and Slorach comes in behind them--just lovely. Yes, I know, YB did not direct this episode. Do I feel stupid. I was too anxious to see the show and ff through the credits. Won't do that again. |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 10, 2014 23:32:10 GMT
Whether we like it or not, I think Julia is dressing up for William. And William appreciates physical beauty. I agree that Julia can get irritated at William's foibles. That's part of what I like about MM. It incorporates those little irritations which make the relationship more "real". Before Talbotrail goes postal, I don't think such things have to destroy the relationship - but they do complicate the relationship and have to be dealt with in some way. The question on Julia's side then becomes: will she have to nag? Can William change? I don't think William would let either Julia or Emily stew in jail - but he wouldn't be able to break them out unless the other station house conveniently left for a wedding! Even though William is open-minded, circumstances are changing too fast for his worldview to shift. I'm sure he has no problem with women's suffrage. But women paying the bills...? She used to become very annoyed at his his rigid and often out of date views of social or ecclesiastic issues mainly I think because he never bothered to question them or update himself. But he's loosened up a lot and has opened his mind to a host of new viewpoints so we see less of that from her now. The things she's up against now are some of the traits he's developed from being a nose to the grindstone, working class, geeky bachelor - like frugality. I think she's more willing to go slower and guide him through these issues. Even today, money is said to be the top cause of problems in a marriage....I don't think it will drive them apart, it is just another thing on which they will have to learn to meet in the middle. I agree that William, like 99.9% of the men in those days, will feel less of a man if his wife is paying the bills. It seems to me that William has never been part of the 99.9% of the men in those days and I don't think he will have a problem at all. My husband keeps telling me he would love to be a kept man, so there you are. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 10, 2014 23:33:31 GMT
She used to become very annoyed at his his rigid and often out of date views of social or ecclesiastic issues mainly I think because he never bothered to question them or update himself. But he's loosened up a lot and has opened his mind to a host of new viewpoints so we see less of that from her now. The things she's up against now are some of the traits he's developed from being a nose to the grindstone, working class, geeky bachelor - like frugality. I think she's more willing to go slower and guide him through these issues. Even today, money is said to be the top cause of problems in a marriage....I don't think it will drive them apart, it is just another thing on which they will have to learn to meet in the middle. I agree that William, like 99.9% of the men in those days, will feel less of a man if his wife is paying the bills. The geek conundrum today: cheapskate in all things, but will pay for video games and will suddenly drop 2k on Google Glass. I wonder if William also has some thing that he will buy at the drop of a homburg even though it's ridiculously expensive. As I understand it, the modern couples usually deal with "spending criticism" problems by having a joint account for bills and stuff, but separate accounts for discretionary spending. Then they learn to leave each other alone!  I still think Julia has a deliberate, long term strategy to make fun of the old staunchly patriarchal world view until William comes to regard it as silly, too. |
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Everything can come off except the black tie? Ok, have to go away and dwell on that thought for a while...... 
I was more in line with that the tie is the keeper of William's "dark places" or erotic urges. If the tie is firmly in place, he's a respectable, proper man. If the tie is off, he's a lusty beast! At least around Julia. You know how a couple smoking used to be code for intimacy had just taken place-I think William being calm around Julia sans tie is going to be MM code for the same thing. 
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT