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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 30, 2014 22:14:31 GMT
This thread is for discussion of the novella "Shipwrecked", by Maureen Jennings. So, spoilers ahoy! You've been warned! Overall, it tied in nicely with the show, with naming his recently deceased wife Julie, as well as dedicating to YB for being such a good William Murdoch. So, from a shipper angle, it appears that yes, there will be a William/Julia biological child, as Det. Bill Murdoch is from a long line of cops starting with his great-grandfather, and all are named William. Interesting how the line of tradition seems to have broken with Bill though... Okay, Will Murdoch is 12 years old, and his mother is still very much alive. His father is not the well-meaning ne'er do well that he is in the show, but just a mean drunk. I quite liked how the priest's past as a battlefield doc in the Civil War definitely shows through in identifying the dead as well as piecing the mystery together with the dead woman and such. I liked it, and I understand that it was for a literacy project, but still, I was left wanting a little more. All right, those are my initial, disjointed thoughts, and I'll wait for yours.  |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 31, 2014 1:35:29 GMT
I thought the book was interesting in the way Maureen Jennings set up the tale.
Bill Murdoch's wife, Julie, died about a year ago and he has not over it.
His daughter, Wendy is separated from her husband, although she has been seeing him lately, and they have a daughter Amy, the joy of Bill's life.
His great-great-great-grandfather is only a boy of twelve in this short story. (I was under the impression that he was eight when his mother died, so I'm tryin to adjust.) As la Belle said, both of his parents are alive and his father is a mean drunk.
The parish priest is a not a warm and nurturing sort, but William is determined to gain his respect. When a storm comes up and a ship founders on the rocks off shore the rescue boat must go out. The priest prepares the hall to accept the victims. A wave washes the men out of the lifeboat but the rescue boat gets to it and finds one passenger alive. They bring her back to shore then go out for the others.
The woman is pregnant and gives birth to a daughter then dies.
When the bodies of the other men are brought in the priest tells William two things. First there are people who will try to steal from the bodies and second, that they must describe each victim so relatives can claim them. William fetches a notebook and the priest describes each man and searches their belongings telling William to record those also.
They also discover that the woman was beaten severely by her husband and that a young blond sailor was trying to help her, but the story ends there with a perfectly good mystery to be explored. Aggravating.
I will re-read it and post further impressions.
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Post by Hodge on Oct 31, 2014 2:12:18 GMT
I thought the book was interesting in the way Maureen Jennings set up the tale. Bill Murdoch's wife, Julie, died about a year ago and he has not over it. His daughter, Wendy is separated from her husband, although she has been seeing him lately, and they have a daughter Amy, the joy of Bill's life. His great-great-great-grandfather is only a boy of twelve in this short story. (I was under the impression that he was eight when his mother died, so I'm tryin to adjust.) As la Belle said, both of his parents are alive and his father is a mean drunk. The parish priest is a not a warm and nurturing sort, but William is determined to gain his respect. When a storm comes up and a ship founders on the rocks off shore the rescue boat must go out. The priest prepares the hall to accept the victims. A wave washes the men out of the lifeboat but the rescue boat gets to it and finds one passenger alive. They bring her back to shore then go out for the others. The woman is pregnant and gives birth to a daughter then dies. When the bodies of the other men are brought in the priest tells William two things. First there are people who will try to steal from the bodies and second, that they must describe each victim so relatives can claim them. William fetches a notebook and the priest describes each man and searches their belongings telling William to record those also. They also discover that the woman was beaten severely by her husband and that a young blond sailor was trying to help her, but the story ends there with a perfectly good mystery to be explored. Aggravating. I will re-read it and post further impressions. I've just finished reading Shipwreck. I wasn't sure if there would be any hints to William's past and as it was about book William it wouldn't necessarily apply to show William anyway. This William is 12 and his mother's still alive, show William's mother died when he was 8 as per Murdochophobia. This book was more to tell how William became interested in detection and the man that spurred that interest. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 31, 2014 4:28:11 GMT
I will re-read it and post further impressions. What?! The mystery isn't solved? That's not fair! This book doesn't sound very good to me. It just sounds like William learning to take notes.  |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 31, 2014 4:45:16 GMT
I will re-read it and post further impressions. What?! The mystery isn't solved? That's not fair! This book doesn't sound very good to me. It just sounds like William learning to take notes. It's just a novella and it was written for an adult literacy programme. It's a quick and easy read and not really very involved. However if you're into the books it's something you have to have. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 31, 2014 4:53:14 GMT
What?! The mystery isn't solved? That's not fair! This book doesn't sound very good to me. It just sounds like William learning to take notes. It's just a novella and it was written for an adult literacy programme. It's a quick and easy read and not really very involved. However if you're into the books it's something you have to have. I only read a couple of the books, because actually I don't like their depiction of William.  |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 31, 2014 5:04:36 GMT
I've just finished reading Shipwreck. I wasn't sure if there would be any hints to William's past and as it was about book William it wouldn't necessarily apply to show William anyway. This William is 12 and his mother's still alive, show William's mother died when he was 8 as per Murdochophobia. This book was more to tell how William became interested in detection and the man that spurred that interest. Yes, I agree but I think we should perhaps take this with a grain of salt. Do we consider it part of the MM canon or not? It is atypical MJ because the murder is left unsolved and it was written not as part of her mystery series but for a specific non-MM project, and a wonderful project it is. Nevertheless, I think it is a worthy topic for discussion here. I am specifically concerned about the fact that both WM's parents are alive, he is older than we thought and his dad is a mean drunk. Remember when Harry asks William if he had ever seen him hit his mother or hit William for that matter. William admitted that he had not and that the mean drunk he thought Harry was existed only in his distorted memories from his childhood. Just something to think about |
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Post by snacky on Oct 31, 2014 5:35:50 GMT
I've just finished reading Shipwreck. I wasn't sure if there would be any hints to William's past and as it was about book William it wouldn't necessarily apply to show William anyway. This William is 12 and his mother's still alive, show William's mother died when he was 8 as per Murdochophobia. This book was more to tell how William became interested in detection and the man that spurred that interest. Yes, I agree but I think we should perhaps take this with a grain of salt. Do we consider it part of the MM canon or not? It is atypical MJ because the murder is left unsolved and it was written not as part of her mystery series but for a specific non-MM project, and a wonderful project it is. Nevertheless, I think it is a worthy topic for discussion here. I am specifically concerned about the fact that both WM's parents are alive, he is older than we thought and his dad is a mean drunk. Remember when Harry asks William if he had ever seen him hit his mother or hit William for that matter. William admitted that he had not and that the mean drunk he thought Harry was existed only in his distorted memories from his childhood. Just something to think about William's father is suggested to be a "mean drunk" in other Jennings books, too. This is just too dark for the TV version. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 31, 2014 5:58:08 GMT
I thought the book was interesting in the way Maureen Jennings set up the tale. Bill Murdoch's wife, Julie, died about a year ago and he has not over it. His daughter, Wendy is separated from her husband, although she has been seeing him lately, and they have a daughter Amy, the joy of Bill's life. His great-great-great-grandfather is only a boy of twelve in this short story. (I was under the impression that he was eight when his mother died, so I'm tryin to adjust.) As la Belle said, both of his parents are alive and his father is a mean drunk. The parish priest is a not a warm and nurturing sort, but William is determined to gain his respect. When a storm comes up and a ship founders on the rocks off shore the rescue boat must go out. The priest prepares the hall to accept the victims. A wave washes the men out of the lifeboat but the rescue boat gets to it and finds one passenger alive. They bring her back to shore then go out for the others. The woman is pregnant and gives birth to a daughter then dies. When the bodies of the other men are brought in the priest tells William two things. First there are people who will try to steal from the bodies and second, that they must describe each victim so relatives can claim them. William fetches a notebook and the priest describes each man and searches their belongings telling William to record those also. They also discover that the woman was beaten severely by her husband and that a young blond sailor was trying to help her, but the story ends there with a perfectly good mystery to be explored. Aggravating. I will re-read it and post further impressions. I've just finished reading Shipwreck. I wasn't sure if there would be any hints to William's past and as it was about book William it wouldn't necessarily apply to show William anyway. This William is 12 and his mother's still alive, show William's mother died when he was 8 as per Murdochophobia. This book was more to tell how William became interested in detection and the man that spurred that interest. But isn't it supposed to be an upcoming episode this season? About William's past? I agree, that the story was keeping in line with book William, but isn't it supposed to tell the story of TV William as well? |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 31, 2014 6:15:54 GMT
I thought the book was interesting in the way Maureen Jennings set up the tale. Bill Murdoch's wife, Julie, died about a year ago and he has not over it. His daughter, Wendy is separated from her husband, although she has been seeing him lately, and they have a daughter Amy, the joy of Bill's life. His great-great-great-grandfather is only a boy of twelve in this short story. (I was under the impression that he was eight when his mother died, so I'm tryin to adjust.) As la Belle said, both of his parents are alive and his father is a mean drunk. The parish priest is a not a warm and nurturing sort, but William is determined to gain his respect. When a storm comes up and a ship founders on the rocks off shore the rescue boat must go out. The priest prepares the hall to accept the victims. A wave washes the men out of the lifeboat but the rescue boat gets to it and finds one passenger alive. They bring her back to shore then go out for the others. The woman is pregnant and gives birth to a daughter then dies. When the bodies of the other men are brought in the priest tells William two things. First there are people who will try to steal from the bodies and second, that they must describe each victim so relatives can claim them. William fetches a notebook and the priest describes each man and searches their belongings telling William to record those also. They also discover that the woman was beaten severely by her husband and that a young blond sailor was trying to help her, but the story ends there with a perfectly good mystery to be explored. Aggravating. I will re-read it and post further impressions. I like the idea however that the PP is not the overly warm, sensitive type-that he's a man with a past as well, which comes out as he gives William his first lesson in thinking analytically. However, he is patient, and gives William a role model of sorts-I could see how this man, more than his father shaped the man that William becomes. I think the mystery is solved-somewhat, just not in any great detail. We learn that the merchant was killed by a sailor who tried to help the poor girl. As I said, I get that it was written for a literacy project, but it wasn't the level of detail that we're used to, and I think that's why it's ultimately unsatisfying for us-we wanted more detail about William's childhood and past as a young man. Maybe the show will borrow from this, and fill in those details. Talbotrail, did one of those sources I found work for you? |
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Post by snacky on Oct 31, 2014 6:39:41 GMT
But isn't it supposed to be an upcoming episode this season? About William's past? I agree, that the story was keeping in line with book William, but isn't it supposed to tell the story of TV William as well? There doesn't seem to be enough info for that. On the up side - that would mean the TV writers have plenty of room to make up a good story...  |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 31, 2014 15:00:35 GMT
I like the idea however that the PP is not the overly warm, sensitive type-that he's a man with a past as well, which comes out as he gives William his first lesson in thinking analytically. However, he is patient, and gives William a role model of sorts-I could see how this man, more than his father shaped the man that William becomes. I think the mystery is solved-somewhat, just not in any great detail. We learn that the merchant was killed by a sailor who tried to help the poor girl. As I said, I get that it was written for a literacy project, but it wasn't the level of detail that we're used to, and I think that's why it's ultimately unsatisfying for us-we wanted more detail about William's childhood and past as a young man. Maybe the show will borrow from this, and fill in those details. Talbotrail, did one of those sources I found work for you? I have to admit the book threw me for a loop at first when Bill Murdoch said his granddaughter, Amy, was named after William's wife but then realized he meant Amy Slade who eventually accepted William's proposal at the end of the last book. I think this will give the show a basis for William's past but only so far as it fits into the show. Perhaps he will still be 12 but at the Jesuit school and one of the Jesuit priests is his mentor. I bought it from Amazon.ca, I have an account with them and it was only $2.99 Cdn. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 31, 2014 15:07:18 GMT
Yes, I agree but I think we should perhaps take this with a grain of salt. Do we consider it part of the MM canon or not? It is atypical MJ because the murder is left unsolved and it was written not as part of her mystery series but for a specific non-MM project, and a wonderful project it is. Nevertheless, I think it is a worthy topic for discussion here. I am specifically concerned about the fact that both WM's parents are alive, he is older than we thought and his dad is a mean drunk. Remember when Harry asks William if he had ever seen him hit his mother or hit William for that matter. William admitted that he had not and that the mean drunk he thought Harry was existed only in his distorted memories from his childhood. Just something to think about Once again this is where we have to separate the book from the movies from the show. It's not part of the show canon but it does form a basis for the character and gives us an inkling into why he became who he did albeit different from the book William. I read Shipwreck as a continuation of the books, keeping it separate from the show. There's enough in the idea behind Shipwreck to form a back story for show William without it being exactly the same as the book. |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Oct 31, 2014 16:38:16 GMT
Yes, I agree but I think we should perhaps take this with a grain of salt. Do we consider it part of the MM canon or not? It is atypical MJ because the murder is left unsolved and it was written not as part of her mystery series but for a specific non-MM project, and a wonderful project it is. Nevertheless, I think it is a worthy topic for discussion here. I am specifically concerned about the fact that both WM's parents are alive, he is older than we thought and his dad is a mean drunk. Remember when Harry asks William if he had ever seen him hit his mother or hit William for that matter. William admitted that he had not and that the mean drunk he thought Harry was existed only in his distorted memories from his childhood. Just something to think about Once again this is where we have to separate the book from the movies from the show. It's not part of the show canon but it does form a basis for the character and gives us an inkling into why he became who he did albeit different from the book William. I read Shipwreck as a continuation of the books, keeping it separate from the show. There's enough in the idea behind Shipwreck to form a back story for show William without it being exactly the same as the book. I have to laugh at us with all of this "is it part of the canon or isn't it?" angst. Snacky should love it! |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 31, 2014 16:44:42 GMT
Once again this is where we have to separate the book from the movies from the show. It's not part of the show canon but it does form a basis for the character and gives us an inkling into why he became who he did albeit different from the book William. I read Shipwreck as a continuation of the books, keeping it separate from the show. There's enough in the idea behind Shipwreck to form a back story for show William without it being exactly the same as the book. I have to laugh at us with all of this "is it part of the canon or isn't it?" angst. Snacky should love it! ... and what makes this worse and more complicated is there are three different canons to keep track of. Major angst! |
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