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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 5:34:51 GMT
While you may hate psychology, she has worked with William using her profiling skills and has helped solved cases on seasons 6 and 7. While she lost some of her more natural integration when she left the morgue, there was an attempt to keep her in the loop and involved in the cases. But not so in season 8. I agree that the psychology plot has played out, and now the shows at a loss as to play her. I don't even accept the suffragette movement as that great of a character arc, because it's William's wife who's campaigning for office, not Dr. Ogden. Dr. Ogden, BAMF, is gone. The longer they keep her as arm candy, the less likely the show seems to do anything to repair their mistake. And that makes me sad. I know we're already at 807 and we haven't seen Julia in any meaningful capacity yet, other than 801/2 but that doesn't mean it's not going to happen. The first two eps dealt with the suffragette movement and she was getting much airtime. A little less in GD but once again lots of airtime in the next two eps and in HMM she was front and centre with William working on a case! In MTM both W&J were much lighter than usual due to the subject of the episode but they still found a mystery to solve. In MAS she was sidelined a bit but that was the nature of the storyline, it wasn't the Murdoch and Ogden Appreciation Society so it made sense that she took a back seat and the last ep just didn't need her. There have been good reasons for the way Julia has been written into the previous episodes, or not, as the case may be but that doesn't mean she won't have more meaningful airtime in future eps. I think you're presuming, much in the same way that Ziggy did re the mysteries, that things will just go downhill from here. Have faith that the writers know what they're doing and if they still disappoint then maybe MM just isn't the programme for you any more. I've stopped watching shows that I watched for years because I didn't like the turns they made, sometimes you just have to accept it and move on.  Having just read Fallenbelle's reply to my previous post I'm guessing I've missed the mark with this too. Obviously I just don't know what she's looking for.... I've agreed that she wasn't missed in the episode, and have stated that repeatedly. But, I'll concede that may have been lost in my concern that her characterization has been marginalized for seasons, and I haven't seen any steps to correct that so far. I've never said that I don't think the writers will fix her character, it just concerns me the longer in the season they let it go, the less likely it becomes that they will fix it. Could it still happen? Yes, but maybe it's not even on their radar. I don't just want any Julia, I want Dr. Ogden back, and maybe that's a distinction only I make. It makes me sad to see a once strong woman reduced to the role of the little wife-which is all she's been this season. Maybe it's because I'm taking a class on hidden racism/sexism that I'm hyper-sensitive to what's going on with her character, and how everyone accepts this is the way that things are, when I don't think for a moment that they have to be that way at all. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 5:36:47 GMT
If Canadian actors get paid by the episode and Hodge wasn't in every episode, this may be a blessing in disguise. Paul Aitken mentioned the budget issue - CBC didn't increse it to cover raises and so forth. Perhaps Kaulback is being shifted onto another budget for another show instead of "let go". I heard William and Helene talking about one of the advantages of hooking up with CBC is the pay structure was changed and the I inferred that it was a better deal for the main characters on the show. They also mentioned that they used get paid per day no matter if they had one line or a thousand. Very interesting. I hope the pay structure now includes some royalties stake in the success of the show itself. If I were an actor, that's what would really encourage me to keep on turning in great performances! Vested interest!  |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 5:37:39 GMT
But prop monkey would be in heaven!!!!  But Prop Monkey isn't in the script.... Oh you meant the Constabulary wouldn't pay for speed. They might if the Taxpayers Demanded Results...  |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 26, 2014 5:40:16 GMT
I don't just want any Julia, I want Dr. Ogden back, and maybe that's a distinction only I make. It makes me sad to see a once strong woman reduced to the role of the little wife-which is all she's been this season. Maybe it's because I'm taking a class on hidden racism/sexism that I'm hyper-sensitive to what's going on with her character, and how everyone accepts this is the way that things are, when I don't think for a moment that they have to be that way at all. Perhaps Julia, or rather Dr. Ogden, has been marginalized but that's the way the show's gone and we either deal with it or accept that perhaps this show is no longer for us. As I've said before, it's Murdoch Mysteries, if it had been called Ogden Mysteries and she'd been marginalized there really would be a problem. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 5:43:41 GMT
I don't just want any Julia, I want Dr. Ogden back, and maybe that's a distinction only I make. It makes me sad to see a once strong woman reduced to the role of the little wife-which is all she's been this season. Maybe it's because I'm taking a class on hidden racism/sexism that I'm hyper-sensitive to what's going on with her character, and how everyone accepts this is the way that things are, when I don't think for a moment that they have to be that way at all. Perhaps Julia, or rather Dr. Ogden, has been marginalized but that's the way the show's gone and we either deal with it or accept that perhaps this show is no longer for us. As I've said before, it's Murdoch Mysteries, if it had been called Ogden Mysteries and she'd been marginalized there really would be a problem. And I'm not allowed to express regret at that? And because I have, I'm now required to stop watching the show? |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 5:44:54 GMT
I don't just want any Julia, I want Dr. Ogden back, and maybe that's a distinction only I make. It makes me sad to see a once strong woman reduced to the role of the little wife-which is all she's been this season. Maybe it's because I'm taking a class on hidden racism/sexism that I'm hyper-sensitive to what's going on with her character, and how everyone accepts this is the way that things are, when I don't think for a moment that they have to be that way at all. I totally vote with you on that sentiment. The thing is that Julia hasn't been a wife long enough for us to conclude that she's been marginalized already. We had the wedding ep. The honeymoon ep. An ep in which Julia decides to run for Parliament. Then an ep in which Julia doesn't appear at all. The evidence just isn't all in yet. I also agree about the marginalization of her character in general - I just think it occurred from the moment she stopped being a coroner. I see that your concerns are arising from the class and not as a result of the marriage - I'm just thinking that articulating them at this time, as well as you do, could create that "Marriage Over! Bored Now!" meme that I'm really afraid of. Could I make the alternative suggestion of focusing on ways Julia could change, such as the lab idea. (Or any other ideas you might have). |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Nov 26, 2014 5:45:07 GMT
Constables were issued with Metropolitan police whistles. Not invented until 1883 in Birmingham, England. Not issued until 1884. I see no reason why the Toronto constabulary wouldn't follow what the London constabulary did at the same time. They copied everything else. Ranks. Uniforms. Etc. No possibility of London taking on a successful Canadian practice...?  Not a chance. Until about 20 years ago post boxes in London had two slots: "London" and "All Other Places" That about sums it up. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 26, 2014 5:51:09 GMT
Perhaps Julia, or rather Dr. Ogden, has been marginalized but that's the way the show's gone and we either deal with it or accept that perhaps this show is no longer for us. As I've said before, it's Murdoch Mysteries, if it had been called Ogden Mysteries and she'd been marginalized there really would be a problem. And I'm not allowed to express regret at that? And because I have, I'm now required to stop watching the show? No, you can regret it but unfortunately we can't do anything about it.... |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 5:53:50 GMT
And I'm not allowed to express regret at that? And because I have, I'm now required to stop watching the show? No, you can regret it but unfortunately we can't do anything about it.... I feel the melancholy for Hodge and Giles descending upon us as well.  |
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Post by ziggy on Nov 26, 2014 5:57:55 GMT
Yeah, I noticed the eye closing thing. I saw it as Wiliam going "I don't need details thank you very much." Once again I didn't see it that way. I saw compassion for a man that hadn't had the benefit of love the the last 21 years. I'm with Talbotrail here. It is interesting to know that there are so many people to this day who would shut the door completely forever on themselves rather than risk going through that experience again. They deny themselves the chance of ever finding love again or whatever it is that hurt them so badly in the first place. |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Nov 26, 2014 6:04:25 GMT
Now, 5 minutes after the marriage is over, you are sounding the warning that Julia is useless. Why didn't you see that the writers had written Julia into a corner before the marriage? It can' be because she was busy profiling because Julia's actually not in half of season 5, and during 6/7 just as her screen time is devoted to romance and witty repartee as psychological profiling. This season Julia's role has been absorbed by the wedding and the suffragette plot line, so there hasn't been much time for profiling or crime solving yet. That's why I can't see this as anything new in terms of the writers running out of ideas for Julia. This is just Season 6 with "Suffragettes" plugged in where "The Divorce" was before. Nothing has changed except Julia got married, and the nature of the episodes hasn't given us a chance to see how Julia will contribute to crime-solving yet. I think we have to give them a chance, Snacky. The writers are juggling a lot off balls right now and they have to address them as they can depending on which scripts are chosen to be made. Julia was absent from this episode, yes, but there may be reasons we don't know about that have nothing to do with MM. She may have been working on another project and this episode freed up her time. And as I said before, I think her appearance, or even a phone call, would have been just the wrong note. Both Julia and William are still in that period newlyweds go through when every thing is beautiful and wonderful and we are so happy. it would have been so wrong for her to come into the station and kiss William teasingly and ask him to take her to lunch. It would have put William in the position of having to explain what was going on which would have taken time form the story and put Julia in a difficult position. What was she to do? The lads were handling the investigation and there was little if anything she could have contributed to the case. William was busy trying to recreate the events surrounding the murder and he didn't have time for any distractions even if it was the love of his life. A telephone call would have been less distracting put problematic nevertheless. The show is definitely breaking some new ground which is not necessarily a bad thing, and I am willing to watch it play out. Don't misunderstand if the start going off course I will complain right along with you. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 6:05:04 GMT
Once again I didn't see it that way. I saw compassion for a man that hadn't had the benefit of love the the last 21 years. I'm with Talbotrail here. It is interesting to know that there are so many people to this day who would shut the door completely forever on themselves rather than risk going through that experience again. They deny themselves the chance of ever finding love again or whatever it is that hurt them so badly in the first place. Or maybe it was a mixture of all of these things. To be honest, I find William more than capable of experiencing and expressing all of these things at once. It's one of the reasons I enjoy the show-William's not simple-at all. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 6:11:57 GMT
I think we have to give them a chance, Snacky. The writers are juggling a lot off balls right now and they have to address them as they can depending on which scripts are chosen to be made. I'm also saying "give the writers a chance".  Also, I agree Julia didn't belong in this episode. Well, maybe we can imagine William had some comfort over what he had done to Hodge when he went home. To a hotel room. |
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Post by ziggy on Nov 26, 2014 6:12:17 GMT
I'm with Talbotrail here. It is interesting to know that there are so many people to this day who would shut the door completely forever on themselves rather than risk going through that experience again. They deny themselves the chance of ever finding love again or whatever it is that hurt them so badly in the first place. Or maybe it was a mixture of all of these things. To be honest, I find William more than capable of experiencing and expressing all of these things at once. It's one of the reasons I enjoy the show-William's not simple-at all. I agree. I think William's mind ran through all of these things and he felt for Giles. Closing his eyes was just his way of expressing his thoughts. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 6:13:39 GMT
And I'm not allowed to express regret at that? And because I have, I'm now required to stop watching the show? No, you can regret it but unfortunately we can't do anything about it.... Perhaps not. But I can express regret about the loss of a character I loved if people can express their sorrow over the loss over Hodge. Also, apologies if I seemed harsh, but I bristled at the insinuation that I was a spoiled child who was going to take her toys and go home if she didn't get what she wanted. More apologies if this is not what you were inferring. I miss Dr. Ogden, but I'll still probably watch next season. Keep in mind that this is coming from someone who is prepared to see her beloved Dr. Ogden get killed off at the end of the season-perhaps in shades of the movie "Seven" so that we can watch her husband unravel and go even darker next season. I don't want it mind you, but I am preparing myself for it. I'm a shipper, but I love William's character as well and I'd stay to watch Snacky's dream Greek Tragedy!  |
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