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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 5:10:19 GMT
It wasn't perfect, but at least the effort was made. That effort hasn't been made this season. I'm not saying that it won't be fixed, but the longer the show waits to fix it seems to hint that the show isn't trying to fix it. Sorry, but I don't think the UST (while delicious) was integral to the show at all, and the fact that the writers have been playing it like it has been is something of a concern to me. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy, IMO. It doesn't have to be that way. What is it that I've said that makes you think I'm suffering from post-marriage panic? I've repeatedly said that I don't have to have non-stop shipper action, and I've been more than happy to discuss non-W/J storylines in the past. My concern is that the writers are done with Julia- and they've just shown that they're okay with sacrificing a character when it serves their purpose. They've written themselves into a corner with Julia, why not do something similar or even edgier with her? Whilst I'm a shipper, albeit a reluctant one, the show is called Murdoch Mysteries, not 'at home with the Murdochs' and not even 'at work with the Murdochs'. So, whilst I really enjoy the scenes with W&J, they're not integral to the show for me. If they ever do become integral to the show it will be a soap opera and I hope that day never comes as I'll have to stop watching on principle. Btw, I enjoyed Julia much more as the coroner than I have in either private practice or psychiatry. Shame we can't get back to that but with Emily firmly ensconsed in the morgue that will never happen.  And apparently I fail at communication, because that's not at all what I've been trying to say, but since I can't get that across, I give up. |
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Post by carco on Nov 26, 2014 5:12:48 GMT
Just because it's fan service doesn't mean it's bad. Last night's ep for example. Lots of people have been suggesting for ages about a William/Giles standoff. Well, we got one heck of a show out of that fan service last night. Thank you for bringing this up. I've been steaming over the idea that loving MM and discussing the show here puts us all on a plane with creepy fan stalkers just because we like to discuss relationship plots, too! Fans can and do discuss a range of things, and writers respond to a range of fan sentiments, not just "shipper demands". (Is there anyone who participates on this board who doesn't agree that MM would in fact suck of MM writers constantly caved to "shipper demands"). I'm once again also guilty here, because I'm the one who started applying the term "fan service" - this is a term used in anime that specifically refers to scenes inserted for the fans (usually love/romance) that do nothing to advance the plot. I thought it was high meta art in Glory Days. But now it seems I've created a monster in not only giving a cheap label with which to condemn any show which even has Julia in it - by naming the "crime" taking place, I've "criminalized" this whole forum as the mere shippers being "fan serviced". I'm not happy about this.  Talbotrail's views restore balance to the force.  I was thinking much the same thing as talbottrail today in that only a 'fan' of the show would truly appreciate the episode since the key references were of characters we haven't seen in quite a while. My husband doesn't watch the show and I thought last night's episode might give him an idea of how great the acting can be but then I realized he wouldn't get much of what was being discussed without knowing the inside story. So in a way this episode was another "gift" to fans. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 26, 2014 5:13:41 GMT
While you may hate psychology, she has worked with William using her profiling skills and has helped solved cases on seasons 6 and 7. While she lost some of her more natural integration when she left the morgue, there was an attempt to keep her in the loop and involved in the cases. But not so in season 8. I agree that the psychology plot has played out, and now the shows at a loss as to play her. I don't even accept the suffragette movement as that great of a character arc, because it's William's wife who's campaigning for office, not Dr. Ogden. Dr. Ogden, BAMF, is gone. The longer they keep her as arm candy, the less likely the show seems to do anything to repair their mistake. And that makes me sad. I know we're already at 807 and we haven't seen Julia in any meaningful capacity yet, other than 801/2 but that doesn't mean it's not going to happen. The first two eps dealt with the suffragette movement and she was getting much airtime. A little less in GD but once again lots of airtime in the next two eps and in HMM she was front and centre with William working on a case! In MTM both W&J were much lighter than usual due to the subject of the episode but they still found a mystery to solve. In MAS she was sidelined a bit but that was the nature of the storyline, it wasn't the Murdoch and Ogden Appreciation Society so it made sense that she took a back seat and the last ep just didn't need her. There have been good reasons for the way Julia has been written into the previous episodes, or not, as the case may be but that doesn't mean she won't have more meaningful airtime in future eps. I think you're presuming, much in the same way that Ziggy did re the mysteries, that things will just go downhill from here. Have faith that the writers know what they're doing and if they still disappoint then maybe MM just isn't the programme for you any more. I've stopped watching shows that I watched for years because I didn't like the turns they made, sometimes you just have to accept it and move on.  Having just read Fallenbelle's reply to my previous post I'm guessing I've missed the mark with this too. Obviously I just don't know what she's looking for.... |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 5:17:34 GMT
Btw, I enjoyed Julia much more as the coroner than I have in either private practice or psychiatry. Shame we can't get back to that but with Emily firmly ensconsed in the morgue that will never happen. The founding textbook of criminalistics came out in 1893. Between that and Sherlock Holmes, the "field" developed in universities. Edmond Locard ostensibly founded the world's first forensics lab in 1910: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_LocardBefore that he was an assistant to a Professor of Criminalistics, at another university (Lausanne) launched the world's first program in forensics in 1909. Numerous books were being written around "related topics" from finger-printing to graphology. What I'm saying is the pieces of a forensics lab were totally in the air circa 1902. No reason Julia can't be the one to come up with the idea of a full service one-stop shop. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 5:19:17 GMT
While I wouldn't say no to it (would in fact embrace such an episode), I just want some more of geeky Julia-something that has been missing this season. She doesn't have to be the central focus of the episode. Agreed about the Death of Dr. Ogden-it started to go there, but then stopped. I guess it was meant to set the stage for William's ultimatum proposal, when it really wasn't needed. I was actually embarrassed this was the free episode on Amazon. I couldn't recommend this episode to new viewers: it was the culmination of an arc for old viewers only. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 26, 2014 5:20:44 GMT
Btw, I enjoyed Julia much more as the coroner than I have in either private practice or psychiatry. Shame we can't get back to that but with Emily firmly ensconsed in the morgue that will never happen. The founding textbook of criminalistics came out in 1893. Between that and Sherlock Holmes, the "field" developed in universities. Edmond Locard ostensibly founded the world's first forensics lab in 1910: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_LocardBefore that he was an assistant to a Professor of Criminalistics, at another university (Lausanne) launched the world's first program in forensics in 1909. Numerous books were being written around "related topics" from finger-printing to graphology. What I'm saying is the pieces of a forensics lab were totally in the air circa 1902. No reason Julia can't be the one to come up with the idea of a full service one-stop shop. Whilst I may like the idea I don't think it will ever happen. Why would they pay an outside lab for work they're paying a pathologist to do now? Emily, like Julia, goes above and beyond for William. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 5:21:45 GMT
Thank you for bringing this up. I've been steaming over the idea that loving MM and discussing the show here puts us all on a plane with creepy fan stalkers just because we like to discuss relationship plots, too! Fans can and do discuss a range of things, and writers respond to a range of fan sentiments, not just "shipper demands". (Is there anyone who participates on this board who doesn't agree that MM would in fact suck of MM writers constantly caved to "shipper demands"). I'm once again also guilty here, because I'm the one who started applying the term "fan service" - this is a term used in anime that specifically refers to scenes inserted for the fans (usually love/romance) that do nothing to advance the plot. I thought it was high meta art in Glory Days. But now it seems I've created a monster in not only giving a cheap label with which to condemn any show which even has Julia in it - by naming the "crime" taking place, I've "criminalized" this whole forum as the mere shippers being "fan serviced". I'm not happy about this. Talbotrail's views restore balance to the force. I was thinking much the same thing as talbottrail today in that only a 'fan' of the show would truly appreciate the episode since the key references were of characters we haven't seen in quite a while. My husband doesn't watch the show and I thought last night's episode might give him an idea of how great the acting can be but then I realized he wouldn't get much of what was being discussed without knowing the inside story. So in a way this episode was another "gift" to fans. Character development is "relationships", and "ship" is just short for relationship. I think shippers tend to care about all sorts of relationships and particularly enjoy historic consistency and the culmination of long-term arcs of the show. |
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Post by randomkiwibirds on Nov 26, 2014 5:22:03 GMT
Yeah, I noticed the eye closing thing. I saw it as Wiliam going "I don't need details thank you very much." Once again I didn't see it that way. I saw compassion for a man that hadn't had the benefit of love the the last 21 years. On rewatch I saw the deliberate blink as my statement above and yes I saw the compassion the talbotrail mentions as well. But I also noticed the following: Giles's heart got smashed into a whole bunch of tiny little pieces-and it is apparent after this instance that he could never go back to being the man he was. After this love became a weakness in his eyes, and it's obvious to this day that even though twenty one years have past, that wound is still as raw as ever. That betrayal still shakes Giles to his core. All the walls that he's so carefully constructed in the past twenty-one years all come crumbling down. I am reminded of a quote Murdoch in that instant acknoledged the weight of the burden that Giles had been carrying for twenty-one years. In that moment he was reminded of his own points in his life when he had been betrayed or left by the ones he loved. And we totally didn't mircoanaylize a blink here because that would be seriously obsessive |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 5:24:19 GMT
The founding textbook of criminalistics came out in 1893. Between that and Sherlock Holmes, the "field" developed in universities. Edmond Locard ostensibly founded the world's first forensics lab in 1910: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmond_LocardBefore that he was an assistant to a Professor of Criminalistics, at another university (Lausanne) launched the world's first program in forensics in 1909. Numerous books were being written around "related topics" from finger-printing to graphology. What I'm saying is the pieces of a forensics lab were totally in the air circa 1902. No reason Julia can't be the one to come up with the idea of a full service one-stop shop. Whilst I may like the idea I don't think it will ever happen. Why would they pay an outside lab for work they're paying a pathologist to do now? Emily, like Julia, goes above and beyond for William. They might if it gets results faster. The problem William had when Julia left for Buffalo is that he couldn't get his cases rushed to the front of the queue when the coroner was serving the entire constabulary. Now Toronto is growing, and the constabulary is expanding. Time to outsource some work!  |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 26, 2014 5:27:02 GMT
Whilst I may like the idea I don't think it will ever happen. Why would they pay an outside lab for work they're paying a pathologist to do now? Emily, like Julia, goes above and beyond for William. They might if it gets results faster. The problem William had when Julia left for Buffalo is that he couldn't get his cases rushed to the front of the queue when the coroner was serving the entire constabulary. Now Toronto is growing, and the constabulary is expanding. Time to outsource some work! Won't happen, it all comes down to money, not speed. It's always about the money. |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Nov 26, 2014 5:28:13 GMT
Also, people combining the actor with the character is a major squick of mine. They're two completely different people! You may or may not notice that I don't often mention actor's names, and I only do so when it's germane to the discussion. For the most part, when I discuss characters, it's George, Julia, William, Brax, etc. That is a major boundary there for me. Wedding rings have always been problematic for movies and TV I remember the days when the tan line around the ring finger was a dead giveaway and nobody seemed to care about it. And I've seen movies and TV shows and the actors sometimes forget to take their rings off. I think that is why some men just keep their rings on, but you are right, they are not necessarily period appropriate. My father-in-law's wedding ring was a man's gold ring with a square garnet set in it so it wasn't the typical wedding band. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 5:28:40 GMT
Murdoch in that instant acknoledged the weight of the burden that Giles had been carrying for twenty-one years. In that moment he was reminded of his own points in his life when he had been betrayed or left by the ones he loved. And we totally didn't mircoanaylize a blink here because that would be seriously obsessiveOr possibly the times William was the betrayer, like when he left Susannah to pursue his own life. We should totally micro-analyze that blink. It was a very distinct, pained blink! But I still think it mostly had to do with re-processing new wtf information about Giles while trying not to imagine him lying naked with other dudes. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 5:29:32 GMT
They might if it gets results faster. The problem William had when Julia left for Buffalo is that he couldn't get his cases rushed to the front of the queue when the coroner was serving the entire constabulary. Now Toronto is growing, and the constabulary is expanding. Time to outsource some work! Won't happen, it all comes down to money, not speed. It's always about the money. But prop monkey would be in heaven!!!!  |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 26, 2014 5:30:48 GMT
Won't happen, it all comes down to money, not speed. It's always about the money. But prop monkey would be in heaven!!!! But Prop Monkey isn't in the script.... |
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Post by mrsbrisby on Nov 26, 2014 5:34:14 GMT
Whilst I'm upset about Hodge I'm more upset about Brian Kaulback, he's such a nice guy and now he's out of a job. If Canadian actors get paid by the episode and Hodge wasn't in every episode, this may be a blessing in disguise. Paul Aitken mentioned the budget issue - CBC didn't increse it to cover raises and so forth. Perhaps Kaulback is being shifted onto another budget for another show instead of "let go". I heard William and Helene talking about one of the advantages of hooking up with CBC is the pay structure was changed and the I inferred that it was a better deal for the main characters on the show. They also mentioned that they used get paid per day no matter if they had one line or a thousand. Very interesting. |
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