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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 17:42:28 GMT
Giles remark: "I don't see how this is germane." (while William is offering the truth about Constance Gardner) What Giles is doing there is keeping William on track about the nature of the confession he wants. He just told William that the instincts for truth and loyalty exist on the same moral plane, but one can never overcome the other without cost. He wants to hear William confess that he experienced that clash of truth and loyalty, let other loyalties overcome truth, and paid the price. The "details" as to why don't matter. Giles has never been a 'details' man, all he wants is the end truth, how you got there doesn't matter. Surprised he was a good cop, surely detection is all about the details, William seems to think so anyway. At this point in his life he's a high level bureaucrat - he doesn't have time for details anymore. But this conversation really isn't about William's reasons at all: Giles just wants William to admit he has the same war of conscience. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 17:44:31 GMT
They had to backward engineer that explanation, though, since the "end game" hadn't been written yet. The thing where the writers thought he was suppressing the secret of his homosexuality all along makes a lot of sense, though. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 17:50:42 GMT
Giles remark: "I don't see how this is germane." (while William is offering the truth about Constance Gardner) What Giles is doing there is keeping William on track about the nature of the confession he wants. He just told William that the instincts for truth and loyalty exist on the same moral plane, but one can never overcome the other without cost. He wants to hear William confess that he experienced that clash of truth and loyalty, let other loyalties overcome truth, and paid the price. The "details" as to why don't matter. Giles has never been a 'details' man, all he wants is the end truth, how you got there doesn't matter. Surprised he was a good cop, surely detection is all about the details, William seems to think so anyway. Methinks Giles might have been a better Lawman than Detective, if that distinction makes sense to you. |
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Post by bookworm1225 on Nov 26, 2014 17:54:59 GMT
Giles remark: "I don't see how this is germane." (while William is offering the truth about Constance Gardner) What Giles is doing there is keeping William on track about the nature of the confession he wants. He just told William that the instincts for truth and loyalty exist on the same moral plane, but one can never overcome the other without cost. He wants to hear William confess that he experienced that clash of truth and loyalty, let other loyalties overcome truth, and paid the price. The "details" as to why don't matter. Giles has never been a 'details' man, all he wants is the end truth, how you got there doesn't matter. Surprised he was a good cop, surely detection is all about the details, William seems to think so anyway. I would disagree with this, to some extent. I think he was a good cop - if you look at his work in 'Crime and Punishment' and 'The Murdoch Trap,' he's actually giving good directions and making sound points. I'd think that nine times out of ten, his methods would lead to the correct criminals. The problem, of course, is that that sort of more easily-solved crime doesn't make for good TV mysteries. *grin* He also, I think, lacked the flexibility to see beyond the obvious, and beyond what he initially concluded, when it was necessary - something Murdoch has always been able to do, and something he's taught Brackenreid and Crabtree to do. I'm going to have to go back and listen to his speech from the end of 'Murdoch in Wonderland' again, in light of this. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 26, 2014 18:06:35 GMT
Giles has never been a 'details' man, all he wants is the end truth, how you got there doesn't matter. Surprised he was a good cop, surely detection is all about the details, William seems to think so anyway. I would disagree with this, to some extent. I think he was a good cop - if you look at his work in 'Crime and Punishment' and 'The Murdoch Trap,' he's actually giving good directions and making sound points. I'd think that nine times out of ten, his methods would lead to the correct criminals. The problem, of course, is that that sort of more easily-solved crime doesn't make for good TV mysteries. *grin* He also, I think, lacked the flexibility to see beyond the obvious, and beyond what he initially concluded, when it was necessary - something Murdoch has always been able to do, and something he's taught Brackenreid and Crabtree to do. I'm going to have to go back and listen to his speech from the end of 'Murdoch in Wonderland' again, in light of this. I think he WAS a good cop, I'm just surprised that he was given his lack of interest in details. Of course that could have come about since becoming CC as he no longer needs to deal with details to do his job, it's up to others to provide them. The fact that he was so single minded also makes me wonder how he could have been a good cop. He was however quick to alter course when presented with alternate possibilities in C&P so he's not inflexible, just single minded. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 26, 2014 18:07:58 GMT
Giles has never been a 'details' man, all he wants is the end truth, how you got there doesn't matter. Surprised he was a good cop, surely detection is all about the details, William seems to think so anyway. Methinks Giles might have been a better Lawman than Detective, if that distinction makes sense to you. Yes, more of a Bat Masterson type than Murdoch type. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 26, 2014 18:26:24 GMT
Yeah, I noticed the eye closing thing. I saw it as Wiliam going "I don't need details thank you very much." Once again I didn't see it that way. I saw compassion for a man that hadn't had the benefit of love the the last 21 years. And this detail really puts into new light the interaction between Julia and Giles in Murdoch in Wonderland when he asks her if she has a romantic interest in William because she wants to see him and calls him by his Christian name. Why would he say such a thing? Jealous? Attracted to William himself (even if he never was going to act upon it)? I know they hadn't thought this far ahead back then, but it does make you wonder if this was meant to somewhat implied that Giles was gay even back then? We'll never know, but interesting nonetheless. Fun to speculate over, even. I suppose that now I've made this observation, I'm going to have to brace myself for William/Giles slash?  |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 26, 2014 20:23:50 GMT
Once again I didn't see it that way. I saw compassion for a man that hadn't had the benefit of love the the last 21 years. And this detail really puts into new light the interaction between Julia and Giles in Murdoch in Wonderland when he asks her if she has a romantic interest in William because she wants to see him and calls him by his Christian name. Why would he say such a thing? Jealous? Attracted to William himself (even if he never was going to act upon it)? I know they hadn't thought this far ahead back then, but it does make you wonder if this was meant to somewhat implied that Giles was gay even back then? We'll never know, but interesting nonetheless. Fun to speculate over, even. I suppose that now I've made this observation, I'm going to have to brace myself for William/Giles slash? I have to admit I still don't read any more into it than Giles not wanting Julia to talk to a suspect when she herself had been at the crime scene. However, on the subject of Giles being attracted to William, it wouldn't be a surprise. A good looking guy with a similar mindset as himself, he probably does have an attraction. But, William is Catholic and we know from previous comments, even if not direct, that Giles is prejudiced so even if he was attracted I doubt he'd ever allow himself to dwell on it and we know he wouldn't act on it. Of course that could be another reason he's so hard on William, we often find ourselves harder on people we like to overcompensate for our feelings. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 20:58:32 GMT
My sense is that Giles would be too wigged about William laying some Catholic judgment on him to be attracted to him. That's why William surprised him in the interrogation. The great thing about that scene is it also outed how Giles bias against Catholics undermined him. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 21:00:12 GMT
Hodge won't get a pension. T_T
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 21:07:00 GMT
Yes, more of a Bat Masterson type than Murdoch type. I think he's a pretty sharp detective, too. He realized the investigation needed to look for a second victim when the dress was missing powder burns in Crime and Punishment. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 21:28:49 GMT
I don't think Giles lacks interest in details, though he probably tends to sift them according to his prevailing theory. In the interrogation, however, the details were irrelevant since he wanted to make his point regarding William's conscience and actions.
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 21:45:37 GMT
Damn it!! WILL YOU SLOW DOWN!!?? now I gotta catch up on four pages of discussions... Just agreed to a 4 hr appt Tues morning. So I'm screwed for both the ep and discussion. The vibrator chair! Waaaaaaaaaaa......  |
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Post by snacky on Nov 26, 2014 22:01:26 GMT
You either use the spray to cause fluorescence OR you use the UV light to show dark spots.fairly small nitpick The Big Reveal where someone sweeps the UV light over some unsuspected dark place is always good for drama! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2014 1:49:37 GMT
Damn it!! WILL YOU SLOW DOWN!!?? Honestly. You go out for a Christmas party with friends for a few hours, and now I gotta catch up on four pages of discussions... I feel your pain. |
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