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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 27, 2014 3:33:04 GMT
And this detail really puts into new light the interaction between Julia and Giles in Murdoch in Wonderland when he asks her if she has a romantic interest in William because she wants to see him and calls him by his Christian name. Why would he say such a thing? Jealous? Attracted to William himself (even if he never was going to act upon it)? I know they hadn't thought this far ahead back then, but it does make you wonder if this was meant to somewhat implied that Giles was gay even back then? We'll never know, but interesting nonetheless. Fun to speculate over, even. I suppose that now I've made this observation, I'm going to have to brace myself for William/Giles slash?  I have to admit I still don't read any more into it than Giles not wanting Julia to talk to a suspect when she herself had been at the crime scene. However, on the subject of Giles being attracted to William, it wouldn't be a surprise. A good looking guy with a similar mindset as himself, he probably does have an attraction. But, William is Catholic and we know from previous comments, even if not direct, that Giles is prejudiced so even if he was attracted I doubt he'd ever allow himself to dwell on it and we know he wouldn't act on it. Of course that could be another reason he's so hard on William, we often find ourselves harder on people we like to overcompensate for our feelings. Oh, I'm not saying for a moment that Giles would ever have acted on it, but I think it was a guilty pleasure that he entertained on lonely nights or it was an attraction he despised himself for and maybe even part of the reason he was such an ass to William. Yes, it would have been petty, but I think Giles is more than capable. Plus, Giles knew that William and Julia had a thing for one another-he calls Julia on it in Wonderland. He could have told Julia no, and left it at that, but he has to bring up the part about their attraction for one another hours before her wedding-he had to have known what they may have discussed-he may have even gone through William's desk and seen the ring/proposal himself. Is he jealously stating if he can't have what he wants, neither can William? Is it a hurtful act of pettiness? We know him being an accessory to murder wasn't an endgame, but the writers long suspected he was gay-was this always something veeeeery subtly implied? |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 27, 2014 3:37:12 GMT
Damn it!! WILL YOU SLOW DOWN!!?? Honestly. You go out for a Christmas party with friends for a few hours, and now I gotta catch up on four pages of discussions... I feel your pain. I often awake to 10 pages or more of discussion-you guys are busy while I sleep! Shangas, you and are I are in similar time zones-I think you're an hour ahead/behind? GMT+9 here. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 27, 2014 3:38:59 GMT
Damn it!! WILL YOU SLOW DOWN!!?? Honestly. You go out for a Christmas party with friends for a few hours, and now I gotta catch up on four pages of discussions... I feel your pain. This is making me laugh so hard.  |
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Post by snacky on Nov 27, 2014 3:47:14 GMT
Oh, I'm not saying for a moment that Giles would ever have acted on it, but I think it was a guilty pleasure that he entertained on lonely nights or it was an attraction he despised himself for and maybe even part of the reason he was such an ass to William. Yes, it would have been petty, but I think Giles is more than capable. Plus, Giles knew that William and Julia had a thing for one another-he calls Julia on it in Wonderland. He could have told Julia no, and left it at that, but he has to bring up the part about their attraction for one another hours before her wedding-he had to have known what they may have discussed-he may have even gone through William's desk and seen the ring/proposal himself. Is he jealously stating if he can't have what he wants, neither can William? Is it a hurtful act of pettiness? We know him being an accessory to murder wasn't an endgame, but the writers long suspected he was gay-was this always something veeeeery subtly implied?My slash goggles aren't working probably just because I think Giles is too old for William. I might be able to see the crush is there wasn't so much fuzz between them, but right now just not seeing it, even from the Giles direction. And I thought Giles' depiction of his lovelorn despair was excellent!!! By the way, my housemate is gay, and he's the PBS Mysteries type. I haven't really lured him into MM because he's also staunchly against file-sharing and anything else that smacks of modern content-stealing shenanigans. However, I've described Nile Bennett's performance to him, and it might be enough to get him to join me for a squint at my laptop. I think Giles interaction with Julia in Wonderland really was about professionalism and separating the "personal" from the "suspect". He shows no such prejudice toward Julia once he's on the track of exonerating her in Crime and Punishment. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 27, 2014 4:05:24 GMT
Oh, I'm not saying for a moment that Giles would ever have acted on it, but I think it was a guilty pleasure that he entertained on lonely nights or it was an attraction he despised himself for and maybe even part of the reason he was such an ass to William. Yes, it would have been petty, but I think Giles is more than capable. Plus, Giles knew that William and Julia had a thing for one another-he calls Julia on it in Wonderland. He could have told Julia no, and left it at that, but he has to bring up the part about their attraction for one another hours before her wedding-he had to have known what they may have discussed-he may have even gone through William's desk and seen the ring/proposal himself. Is he jealously stating if he can't have what he wants, neither can William? Is it a hurtful act of pettiness? We know him being an accessory to murder wasn't an endgame, but the writers long suspected he was gay-was this always something veeeeery subtly implied?My slash goggles aren't working probably just because I think Giles is too old for William. I might be able to see the crush is there wasn't so much fuzz between them, but right now just not seeing it, even from the Giles direction. And I thought Giles' depiction of his lovelorn despair was excellent!!! By the way, my housemate is gay, and he's the PBS Mysteries type. I haven't really lured him into MM because he's also staunchly against file-sharing and anything else that smacks of modern content-stealing shenanigans. However, I've described Nile Bennett's performance to him, and it might be enough to get him to join me for a squint at my laptop. I think Giles interaction with Julia in Wonderland really was about professionalism and separating the "personal" from the "suspect". He shows no such prejudice toward Julia once he's on the track of exonerating her in Crime and Punishment. This is why I hesitate to bring topics like this up...I'm not saying there was a snowballs chance in hell it was ever going to be reciprocated-Giles knew that William wouldn't entertain the idea for even a moment. But, I'm starting to heavily suspect that Giles was attracted to William (but I think Giles despised himself for those feelings), and if not in Wonderland, definitely acted towards William with spite as a result of this attraction. Yes, there was the whole CG thing, but I think that may have been mixed up with hatred of his desire as well. I'm not saying Giles loved William, but was he bitter about an unrequited, deep attraction? Maybe. As as for your roomie, do you guys have Netflix? Seasons 1-3 are on Netflix streaming, and later seasons are available on disc. As are the movies, btw. That might get him intrigued. I'm trying to get my gay friend whose obsessed with mysteries ( he's the one who convinced me to give Miss Fisher's a go) into MM, but right now he's obsessed with puppetry and is trying to get grants to start his own puppetry troupe. (Yes, really). I've piqued his interest, but he can be rather myopic. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 27, 2014 4:31:24 GMT
As as for your roomie, do you guys have Netflix? Seasons 1-3 are on Netflix streaming, and later seasons are available on disc. As are the movies, btw. That might get him intrigued. I'm trying to get my gay friend whose obsessed with mysteries ( he's the one who convinced me to give Miss Fisher's a go) into MM, but right now he's obsessed with puppetry and is trying to get grants to start his own puppetry troupe. (Yes, really). I've piqued his interest, but he can be rather myopic. Talking of myopic friends. I have a friend that I know would love MM but she won't watch it because ... I'm so obsessed! I could see if we had totally different tastes but we don't. I've been to many movies she's suggested and enjoyed them all. All I want her to do is watch one episode but NOOO! It drives me crazy. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 27, 2014 4:48:51 GMT
As as for your roomie, do you guys have Netflix? Seasons 1-3 are on Netflix streaming, and later seasons are available on disc. As are the movies, btw. That might get him intrigued. I'm trying to get my gay friend whose obsessed with mysteries ( he's the one who convinced me to give Miss Fisher's a go) into MM, but right now he's obsessed with puppetry and is trying to get grants to start his own puppetry troupe. (Yes, really). I've piqued his interest, but he can be rather myopic. Talking of myopic friends. I have a friend that I know would love MM but she won't watch it because ... I'm so obsessed! I could see if we had totally different tastes but we don't. I've been to many movies she's suggested and enjoyed them all. All I want her to do is watch one episode but NOOO! It drives me crazy. Tell me about it! I met up with some friends this weekend, and I told them about the show. The one who I thought would be excited was rather "meh" about it (she's totally into steampunk and period pieces) while the other friend who I didn't think would be as interested was intrigued and made a point to clarify the spelling and ask where she might find it. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 27, 2014 5:13:24 GMT
This is why I hesitate to bring topics like this up...I'm not saying there was a snowballs chance in hell it was ever going to be reciprocated-Giles knew that William wouldn't entertain the idea for even a moment. But, I'm starting to heavily suspect that Giles was attracted to William (but I think Giles despised himself for those feelings), and if not in Wonderland, definitely acted towards William with spite as a result of this attraction. Yes, there was the whole CG thing, but I think that may have been mixed up with hatred of his desire as well. I'm not saying Giles loved William, but was he bitter about an unrequited, deep attraction? Maybe. As as for your roomie, do you guys have Netflix? Seasons 1-3 are on Netflix streaming, and later seasons are available on disc. As are the movies, btw. That might get him intrigued. I'm trying to get my gay friend whose obsessed with mysteries ( he's the one who convinced me to give Miss Fisher's a go) into MM, but right now he's obsessed with puppetry and is trying to get grants to start his own puppetry troupe. (Yes, really). I've piqued his interest, but he can be rather myopic. Why hesitate to bring it up? I'd be the first to bring up a spark of slashiness if I saw it! I'm just not feeling it here (yet). Who knows - maybe some vague clue will convince me. I do agree Giles would despise himself for any such feelings, though! Nope, don't have Netflix.  My housemate is not here most of the time - any amenities are at his primary residence. I think he would like MM if he spots it on regular TV, but so far he hasn't had Ovation, and the syndicated eps are coming on at weird hours. He just has to catch it naturally and discover it for himself. I think this will be a big shared love of ours as housemates when he finally does discover it on his own, though. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 27, 2014 5:19:38 GMT
As as for your roomie, do you guys have Netflix? Seasons 1-3 are on Netflix streaming, and later seasons are available on disc. As are the movies, btw. That might get him intrigued. I'm trying to get my gay friend whose obsessed with mysteries ( he's the one who convinced me to give Miss Fisher's a go) into MM, but right now he's obsessed with puppetry and is trying to get grants to start his own puppetry troupe. (Yes, really). I've piqued his interest, but he can be rather myopic. Talking of myopic friends. I have a friend that I know would love MM but she won't watch it because ... I'm so obsessed! I could see if we had totally different tastes but we don't. I've been to many movies she's suggested and enjoyed them all. All I want her to do is watch one episode but NOOO! It drives me crazy. The same thing happens with books. I've come to the conclusion that it's impossible to recommend books even if you KNOW the person in question would love them. That somehow builds a wall of resistance and they procrastinate on checking the book out. Instead you have to hint and lure them in some how, until they have enough inner motivation to do the work of getting the book themselves. I think you can encourage hobbies and interests, but not the particular work that goes into pursuing those hobbies/interests...? The person has to choose that from some internally motivated place. Just my weird theory as usual. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 27, 2014 5:26:38 GMT
Talking of myopic friends. I have a friend that I know would love MM but she won't watch it because ... I'm so obsessed! I could see if we had totally different tastes but we don't. I've been to many movies she's suggested and enjoyed them all. All I want her to do is watch one episode but NOOO! It drives me crazy. Tell me about it! I met up with some friends this weekend, and I told them about the show. The one who I thought would be excited was rather "meh" about it (she's totally into steampunk and period pieces) while the other friend who I didn't think would be as interested was intrigued and made a point to clarify the spelling and ask where she might find it. Actually it's weird how the entire steampunk community in the U.S. doesn't even cross paths with Murdoch Mysteries. Because there are so many steampunk conventions, steampunk bands, steampunk balls, steampunk costume happenings, etc. here, I made some effort last year to raise awareness. But there really doesn't seem to be much awareness/interest at all. I think it might have been because MM wasn't a US show, though. US syndication might change that. I'd like to see MM creative folk getting invited to steampunk fests just like Dr. Who peeps might be invited to a sci fi convention. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 27, 2014 5:33:27 GMT
Tell me about it! I met up with some friends this weekend, and I told them about the show. The one who I thought would be excited was rather "meh" about it (she's totally into steampunk and period pieces) while the other friend who I didn't think would be as interested was intrigued and made a point to clarify the spelling and ask where she might find it. Actually it's weird how the entire steampunk community in the U.S. doesn't even cross paths with Murdoch Mysteries. Because there are so many steampunk conventions, steampunk bands, steampunk balls, steampunk costume happenings, etc. here, I made some effort last year to raise awareness. But there really doesn't seem to be much awareness/interest at all. I think it might have been because MM wasn't a US show, though. US syndication might change that. I'd like to see MM creative folk getting invited to steampunk fests just like Dr. Who peeps might be invited to a sci fi convention. I just don't find most Americans to be that xenophobic-there's lots of evidence to support Americans can and do watch foreign tv. Look at the popularity of BBC America, PBS shows, History Channel, etc. Is the same person who watches Real Housewives probably going to be interested in MM? No, but there are others who would never watch Real Housewives who would be all over it. I think for whatever reason, the MM team has just dropped the ball on knowing how to market it, for reasons we've already discussed. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 27, 2014 5:53:37 GMT
I just don't find most Americans to be that xenophobic-there's lots of evidence to support Americans can and do watch foreign tv. Look at the popularity of BBC America, PBS shows, History Channel, etc. Is the same person who watches Real Housewives probably going to be interested in MM? No, but there are others who would never watch Real Housewives who would be all over it. I think for whatever reason, the MM team has just dropped the ball on knowing how to market it, for reasons we've already discussed. Yeah, it's not xenophobia - as far as most American's know, Canada is another State with healthcare, hahahaha. Anyway, as you correctly point out the problem is people just don't know about it, and as they say in the Westerns, you can lead the horse to water, but you can't make him drink. Me mentioning the existence of MM doesn't do anything. There has to be some more context than that. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 27, 2014 18:43:19 GMT
William is now in the position of being an Internal Affairs Officer without the separations and protections of being in a modern independent department.
In The Great Wall, William investigated a separate Station House. He faced great hostility just for questioning fellow constables. Even when he solved the case and it was clear that the constable he accused was a rapist as well as a murderer, there was still great suspicion of William and some general grudge aimed at Station House 4. William complained about how he had struggled to fit in to the constabulary and regarded it as his family - and all that had been undermined because he had become their interrogator. Chief Inspector Stockton - perhaps without ill-will - suggested William take up a post in Winnipeg. It's been suggested that Station House 4 maintained a rivalry with Station House 5 ever since.
Things are even worse in What Lies Buried. William's investigation has caused a bureaucratic shake up. There may be other "covering" homosexuals in the high administration who resent how William outed Giles and got him thrown in jail when he wasn't even the murderer. This whole thing came about because Giles was going to be framed!
What is even worse is the ramifications for William's own Station House 4. Sure William has worked there for years, and everyone knows him as an earnest, upright man - who gets on their case a lot, makes them do the digging, and has an annoying habit of correcting their grammar. William may be their family, but he is the quirky uncle they put up with.
Hodge, on the other hand is Grandpa. He's been there longer than William. He's been fetching everyone's tea and newspapers, and running everyone's errands. He's always there with a friendly face to greet them at the start and end of every day. He gossips with them as he checks things in and out of the log book. He probably has a drink or two at the pub.
Now William, in his "zeal for the truth", is going to send Grandpa to jail - or at the very least put him through a trial. Hodge will lose his pension. If he's married, that will affect his wife, too. Unlike The Great Wall constable-perp, Hodge doesn't deserve this. He was trying to stop a crime in progress (blackmail) - and Giles got him in deeper with the need to cover up the homosexual context of it all. Hodge was standing up for his brother, as brothers are supposed to do.
So how are the constables at Station House 4 supposed to look at William now? He just threw Grandpa under the bus. He might turn on them if they do anything wrong: and basically everyone does a little something illegal to get by. Even William accepted pies without thinking of those as "gifts".
The writers will probably decide just to drop it after this episode, but I hope they don't. After the pity party William threw himself in The Great Wall, I think it's only logical that there should be much greater consequences for William sending one of his own Station House compadres to jail.
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Post by mrsbrisby on Nov 27, 2014 21:27:49 GMT
Why hesitate to bring it up? I'd be the first to bring up a spark of slashiness if I saw it! I'm just not feeling it here (yet). Who knows - maybe some vague clue will convince me. I do agree Giles would despise himself for any such feelings, though! Nope, don't have Netflix. My housemate is not here most of the time - any amenities are at his primary residence. I think he would like MM if he spots it on regular TV, but so far he hasn't had Ovation, and the syndicated eps are coming on at weird hours. He just has to catch it naturally and discover it for himself. I think this will be a big shared love of ours as housemates when he finally does discover it on his own, though. If you are in the US you can watch Seasons 1-7 on Acorn TV. You get a month free and then it is either $4.99 a month or $49.00 year. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 27, 2014 22:45:41 GMT
I do agree Giles would despise himself for any such feelings, though! Nope, don't have Netflix. My housemate is not here most of the time - any amenities are at his primary residence. I think he would like MM if he spots it on regular TV, but so far he hasn't had Ovation, and the syndicated eps are coming on at weird hours. He just has to catch it naturally and discover it for himself. I think this will be a big shared love of ours as housemates when he finally does discover it on his own, though. If you are in the US you can watch Seasons 1-7 on Acorn TV. You get a month free and then it is either $4.99 a month or $49.00 year. My housemate is old school, TV only, and no messing with the TV in any way. Murdoch Mysteries either has to come on TV or it doesn't exist for him. I was hoping he would have Ovation in his TV package, but apparently not yet. Even then, he'd have to deliberately navigate upstream to Ovation, whereas normally he sticks to networks and PBS at the bottom of the dial. Even then, Ovation doesn't have Season 8, and it's this Season 8 ep I want him to see first. I'm debating luring him into watching it on my computer (where he will complain about content issues, and then he will complain about the quality, and then he will complain about the screen size...). But I've wanted him to check out MM for a long time because I'm sure he'd enjoy it a great deal. |
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My housemate is not here most of the time - any amenities are at his primary residence. I think he would like MM if he spots it on regular TV, but so far he hasn't had Ovation, and the syndicated eps are coming on at weird hours. He just has to catch it naturally and discover it for himself. I think this will be a big shared love of ours as housemates when he finally does discover it on his own, though.
