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Post by Hodge on Nov 25, 2014 16:43:21 GMT
Why does everyone think there will be fallout from William's admission that he released CG?? The only people that know are CG, William, Brackenreid and Giles. The first three won't say anything and it won't do Giles any good to say anything about it. The only thing in the records is that Brackenreid found an unlocked door, Giles said this himself. Stockton didn't believe him and anyone else would probably think this was Giles trying to tarnish William's name in order to detract from his own failures. This was a plot device in my opinion, a tit for tat confession. The only way Giles would confess was if William would also confess. They both only want the truth ... despite Giles lies through omission. He has the thing he wanted most from William and there's nothing he can do with it now. Because no good deed goes unpunished? But Giles makes the accusation and it's looked into, and when asked, William is truthful? Not that it has to go down this way-maybe there is no fallout. But, you may have noticed that we like to speculate around here.  I sometimes think I've watched a different programme than everyone else.  I've never liked speculation. I find it useless as most of the time we're completely wrong. I'd much rather just watch the show and see what they present to us.  I do have one thing to say about this season in general though, with the exception of OtW 1&2 which wrapped up last season's cliffhanger, so far it's been totally fan service. We got Thomas Craig's Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid episode, the wedding and honeymoon, a tribute of sorts to the fans and now the episode a lot of people asked for, a showdown between Giles and William where Giles is the suspect. I wonder what the rest of the season will bring. Whatever it is if what's gone before is anything to go off it will be interesting. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 16:49:56 GMT
Who knows, maybe they find CG? Or maybe they find her remains and things are looked into more closely. Now that would be a great scenario! Then people start asking how she got out of jail in the first place. And Giles is called in. (He's now out of jail because he was needed to to support some of the States' legal cases on The Black Hand or something and now works for the government...) |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 25, 2014 16:53:12 GMT
This was such a great episode, that I kind of worry it makes the previous episodes of the season look worse in comparison! MM should be striving to spread this kind of quality around throughout the season.  I don't know that I'd say it was good only because of the others had been lacking, I think it was a great episode that could only now be done because the show had to build up to it. I want to see more eps like this one-if this is their idea of 10% darker, then perfect! But, please, more Julia in a geeky role please. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 16:54:01 GMT
I've never liked speculation. I find it useless as most of the time we're completely wrong. I'd much rather just watch the show and see what they present to us. Hey my "in the ballpark" speculation record is pretty good so far! I called it on Giles being related to the murder, but not the murderer himself and it being a conflicting moral codes scenario a la Le Miserables! I've forgotten now, but my croquet ball went through the wicket on some other items earlier this season as well. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2014 16:55:42 GMT
I want to see more eps like this one-if this is their idea of 10% darker, then perfect! But, please, more Julia in a geeky role please. Word to the...who ever the word goes to in this case. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 25, 2014 16:56:44 GMT
Because no good deed goes unpunished? But Giles makes the accusation and it's looked into, and when asked, William is truthful? Not that it has to go down this way-maybe there is no fallout. But, you may have noticed that we like to speculate around here. I sometimes think I've watched a different programme than everyone else. I've never liked speculation. I find it useless as most of the time we're completely wrong. I'd much rather just watch the show and see what they present to us. I do have one thing to say about this season in general though, with the exception of OtW 1&2 which wrapped up last season's cliffhanger, so far it's been totally fan service. We got Thomas Craig's Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid episode, the wedding and honeymoon, a tribute of sorts to the fans and now the episode a lot of people asked for, a showdown between Giles and William where Giles is the suspect. I wonder what the rest of the season will bring. Whatever it is if what's gone before is anything to go off it will be interesting. I think speculation is good when it's not wild-when you speculate what could happen based off of the clues given. I haven't found that we've been completely wrong-we've been partially right quite a bit as well. However, I'm totally with you for the fan service- a little is good, but I hope that it's over and that we're back jungle!SH4 or noir MM. With more scientist Julia, please.  |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 25, 2014 16:59:15 GMT
I sometimes think I've watched a different programme than everyone else. I've never liked speculation. I find it useless as most of the time we're completely wrong. I'd much rather just watch the show and see what they present to us. I do have one thing to say about this season in general though, with the exception of OtW 1&2 which wrapped up last season's cliffhanger, so far it's been totally fan service. We got Thomas Craig's Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid episode, the wedding and honeymoon, a tribute of sorts to the fans and now the episode a lot of people asked for, a showdown between Giles and William where Giles is the suspect. I wonder what the rest of the season will bring. Whatever it is if what's gone before is anything to go off it will be interesting. I think speculation is good when it's not wild-when you speculate what could happen based off of the clues given. I haven't found that we've been completely wrong-we've been partially right quite a bit as well. However, I'm totally with you for the fan service- a little is good, but I hope that it's over and that we're back jungle!SH4 or noir MM. With more scientist Julia, please. Just because it's fan service doesn't mean it's bad. Last night's ep for example. Lots of people have been suggesting for ages about a William/Giles standoff. Well, we got one heck of a show out of that fan service last night. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 25, 2014 17:04:57 GMT
I sometimes think I've watched a different programme than everyone else. I've never liked speculation. I find it useless as most of the time we're completely wrong. I'd much rather just watch the show and see what they present to us. I do have one thing to say about this season in general though, with the exception of OtW 1&2 which wrapped up last season's cliffhanger, so far it's been totally fan service. We got Thomas Craig's Butch Cassidy/Sundance Kid episode, the wedding and honeymoon, a tribute of sorts to the fans and now the episode a lot of people asked for, a showdown between Giles and William where Giles is the suspect. I wonder what the rest of the season will bring. Whatever it is if what's gone before is anything to go off it will be interesting. I think speculation is good when it's not wild-when you speculate what could happen based off of the clues given. I haven't found that we've been completely wrong-we've been partially right quite a bit as well. However, I'm totally with you for the fan service- a little is good, but I hope that it's over and that we're back jungle!SH4 or noir MM. With more scientist Julia, please. My problem with speculation is it's a 'what if' and I can't stand 'what ifs'. I like facts and if the only way to get facts is to not speculate and to just wait and watch then that's what I prefer. Once I've seen the show I'll discuss it till I'm blue in the face as I now have 'facts' to discuss. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 25, 2014 17:09:00 GMT
I think speculation is good when it's not wild-when you speculate what could happen based off of the clues given. I haven't found that we've been completely wrong-we've been partially right quite a bit as well. However, I'm totally with you for the fan service- a little is good, but I hope that it's over and that we're back jungle!SH4 or noir MM. With more scientist Julia, please. My problem with speculation is it's a 'what if' and I can't stand 'what ifs'. I like facts and if the only way to get facts is to not speculate and to just wait and watch then that's what I prefer. Once I've seen the show I'll discuss it till I'm blue in the face as I now have 'facts' to discuss. You're a calm, rational person, who never gets too upset about much of anything, aren't you? |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 25, 2014 17:11:16 GMT
Who knows, maybe they find CG? Or maybe they find her remains and things are looked into more closely. Now that would be a great scenario! Then people start asking how she got out of jail in the first place. And Giles is called in. (He's now out of jail because he was needed to to support some of the States' legal cases on The Black Hand or something and now works for the government...) While I'll be interested to see if William does receive and fallout from his good deed, I hope they don't bring her back. She wasn't an evil person and she knows that a return will not only result in her capture, it will also hurt her savior as well. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 25, 2014 17:30:49 GMT
My problem with speculation is it's a 'what if' and I can't stand 'what ifs'. I like facts and if the only way to get facts is to not speculate and to just wait and watch then that's what I prefer. Once I've seen the show I'll discuss it till I'm blue in the face as I now have 'facts' to discuss. You're a calm, rational person, who never gets too upset about much of anything, aren't you? Usually. I wasn't calm last night, I was very upset that Hodge was thrown to the plot wolves. It took me a very long time to get the despair out of my system. Last night's was the first MM episode that almost brought me to tears.  lovemondays and eus may say something different though! |
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Post by randomkiwibirds on Nov 25, 2014 17:38:46 GMT
I think you're reading too much into Julia not being in the episode. It would have been nothing more than a) awkward because the entire episode takes place inside SH4, b) there is no need for her profiling services and c) gratuitous fan service. I believe the writers and producers made a conscious decision to place and entirely Murdoch driven murder mystery at this point as a counterpoint to the extreme shipper fan service that has been going on for quite some time. PM said to expect darker. This episode is definitely that. This shipper queen did not miss Julia in this ep. I don't think they developed Emily's character at all tonight, just reinforced her excellent skills as a pathologist. I'm putting this episode in my top 10. I have to agree with everything you've said. There was no need for Julia this episode and in fact Emily only played a very small role as she should have. This episode is what people have been asking for, I think they got more than they wanted. Excellent episode that left me close to tears for the first time ever watching MM. Definitely in my top 10 too. Was this the episode Georgina said had her close to tears? I feel like if they had added Julia into this it would have been rather forced and awkward and taken away from the mood of the episode. It is quite possible that *this* was *that* episode-but I think we'll have to wait and see what the rest of the season brings before we decide on that. Georgiana was being rather vaugue (If I recall correctly) on which episode it was. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Nov 25, 2014 17:53:08 GMT
You're a calm, rational person, who never gets too upset about much of anything, aren't you? Usually. I wasn't calm last night, I was very upset that Hodge was thrown to the plot wolves. It took me a very long time to get the despair out of my system. Last night's was the first MM episode that almost brought me to tears. lovemondays and eus may say something different though! Sacrificing Hodge did make me sad, but it didn't gut me as if George were to get busted for doing something similar for William. Then I'd be curled in the fetal position on the floor crying real tears. No joke. Dear MM writers, if you do read this, DO NOT use this suggestion. Kthankxbai! |
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Post by lovemondays on Nov 25, 2014 18:16:53 GMT
I think Giles felt conflicted and guilty about the code of loyalty, and he projected it on to William: he saw a lot of William in himself, and knew how what he had done had "destroyed his soul". He was a hypocrite and he knew it. Moral conflicts cause people to do contradictory and hypocritical things - I think that's the moral of the story for both William and Giles: I'm not sure William is getting a second chance by "confessing" either. It doesn't undo what he did. It just spreads the circle of the secret further. Poor Hodge! I don't have much time to ruminate over the details of the ep this morning, but I LOVE the details of how homosexuality was handled in this ep! - the difference between pedophilia and homosexuality - the casual use of "bugger" in the homosocial environment which creates the opportunity for blackmail and murder - how a member of the "brotherhood" preyed on homosexuals outside their ranks and "policed" within - how Hodge had his "suspicions" but remained loyal - how Giles achilles heel was a romantic spirit - who knew! - how William stayed focused on the murder and probably saved a bit of Giles' soul by disrupting his expectations that his homosexuality and/or destroying his career over it would become the focus of the case - the idea that Giles would get more jail time for being a homosexual than Hodge would for manslaughter Awesome on ALL counts! And I have to say, I could really imagine Giles as a besotted romantic! I do hope we see him again. Perhaps he can turn states evidence on some major crime. (The Black Hand?) I also have to add, it's a trip to imagine Station House 4 had no flush toilets as of yet. If William was a germ-o-phobe, do you think he was running across the street to the nearest tea house to use their facilities this whole time? This was such a great episode, that I kind of worry it makes the previous episodes of the season look worse in comparison! MM should be striving to spread this kind of quality around throughout the season. I completely agree with your assessment of Giles conflicted/guilty feelings being projected on William over the CG affair. He just saw the torture he's lived with for years and let loose with righteous anger toward William on the surface but truly at himself. It makes you appreciate how well Nigel has acted the role. Do you think the character being in the closet ever came up in motivating Nigel's performance? |
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Post by lovemondays on Nov 25, 2014 18:24:28 GMT
You're a calm, rational person, who never gets too upset about much of anything, aren't you? Usually. I wasn't calm last night, I was very upset that Hodge was thrown to the plot wolves. It took me a very long time to get the despair out of my system. Last night's was the first MM episode that almost brought me to tears. lovemondays and eus may say something different though! Talbotrail is very matter of fact and rational...just don't EVER muck with her planning...calm goes right out the window!  |
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