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Post by Fallenbelle on Apr 26, 2015 22:51:21 GMT
No, he's definitely not the stereotypical man-which is why he's so intriguing! It could have been interesting if he'd married Anna-and that possibly could have happened in season 5, and seeing Julia have some angst would have been a nice change, but PM ships Jilliam, and he did "right the ship" by the end of the season.  Unfortunately he almost sank the ship in S8. Hopefully he'll put that right in S9. I have a bit more faith now we've heard from him. And to his credit, he's kinda admitted this.  However, I don't think it was his intention, I do believe they were trying to give more story to Emily and George, and while this was a good idea, I think they panned out a bit too far. I didn't dislike more story on those two, but not at the expense of William. Hopefully, balance does get restored. I have some faith as well. That said, I was quite concerned for Julia's character, as she really did show signs of a character about to be killed off. I'm quite glad those fears were unfounded. |
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Post by Hodge on Apr 26, 2015 23:11:28 GMT
But that's just it-they didn't move to CBC until season 6, and the show was on shaky ground renewal wise-why else would two endings be shot for season's 3 and 4. Season 4 is just angst for angst sake, and I don't find the pointless suffering of others particularly entertaining-and that's what season 4 is to me. I much prefer season 5, and have rewatched it a couple of times. Despite the lack of Julia, I quite like Invention Convention. It's a shame that season 4 is so unrewatchable for me, because there are some great eps, but I just can't take it. I like William, and season 4 is unnecessary whumping. Season 5 is preferable because the show isn't actually trying to destroy William. Imagine if season 4 had been the final episode...that would have been a horrible ending to the series IMO. I thought the deal was made to move to CBC at the end of Season 4, but it remained on City for a year while negotiations were taking place, or something hinky like that? The "alternative ending" is so abrupt I've never bought it as an alternative ending: I think it was filmed as a form of fan reassurance to leak and let people know they wouldn't have just ended things on Julia's wedding. And it's a bit of fan bling for the DVDs that seem to have sold pretty well. The suffering of Season 4 isn't pointless at all. Some of the best acting in the series is in Season 4. Perhaps events are trying to destroy William, but it also laid on the table all the issues he needed to reconcile with himself before he could be a whole man for Julia. And perhaps Julia needed to get over "old maid syndrome" before she could be a whole woman for William. Nope the deal to move to CBC only came through after shooting S5 ended. Read PM's first post again. They thought they were done before any of the eps they filmed had even been seen. What alternative ending for S4? There was an alternative Ruby/Julia scene and an alternate letter from Julia. There was an alternate ending for S3 |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Apr 26, 2015 23:12:12 GMT
But that's just it-they didn't move to CBC until season 6, and the show was on shaky ground renewal wise-why else would two endings be shot for season's 3 and 4. Season 4 is just angst for angst sake, and I don't find the pointless suffering of others particularly entertaining-and that's what season 4 is to me. I much prefer season 5, and have rewatched it a couple of times. Despite the lack of Julia, I quite like Invention Convention. It's a shame that season 4 is so unrewatchable for me, because there are some great eps, but I just can't take it. I like William, and season 4 is unnecessary whumping. Season 5 is preferable because the show isn't actually trying to destroy William. Imagine if season 4 had been the final episode...that would have been a horrible ending to the series IMO. I thought the deal was made to move to CBC at the end of Season 4, but it remained on City for a year while negotiations were taking place, or something hinky like that? The "alternative ending" is so abrupt I've never bought it as an alternative ending: I think it was filmed as a form of fan reassurance to leak and let people know they wouldn't have just ended things on Julia's wedding. And it's a bit of fan bling for the DVDs that seem to have sold pretty well. Nope, it was on at City for another season before they cancelled it.  Sorry, I don't think that alternate ending had any intention of any kind of closure to the series. In choosing justice over the law, his life is ruined: the love of his life married to another man, and he resigns from his life's work to live an unfulfilled and lonely life doing some menial job, his kindness, his fervor for justice, and intelligence all wasted. Because if the series had ended at season 4, that's the wholly unsatisfying end we would have had. His destruction was complete and he had tragically met the same fate as Lamb-that parallel is clear. It's abrupt, ugly, and it's only saving grace was that there was a season 5 to rescue it. Edit: As Hodge just said, there really was no alternate ending, just an alternate letter from Julia telling him to forget about her. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Apr 26, 2015 23:14:57 GMT
I thought the deal was made to move to CBC at the end of Season 4, but it remained on City for a year while negotiations were taking place, or something hinky like that? The "alternative ending" is so abrupt I've never bought it as an alternative ending: I think it was filmed as a form of fan reassurance to leak and let people know they wouldn't have just ended things on Julia's wedding. And it's a bit of fan bling for the DVDs that seem to have sold pretty well. The suffering of Season 4 isn't pointless at all. Some of the best acting in the series is in Season 4. Perhaps events are trying to destroy William, but it also laid on the table all the issues he needed to reconcile with himself before he could be a whole man for Julia. And perhaps Julia needed to get over "old maid syndrome" before she could be a whole woman for William. Nope the deal to move to CBC only came through after shooting S5 ended. Read PM's first post again. They thought they were done before any of the eps they filmed had even been seen. What alternative ending for S4? There was an alternative Ruby/Julia scene and an alternate letter from Julia. There was an alternate ending for S3 I knew there was an alternative letter, but what's this about an alternative Ruby/Julia scene? |
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Post by Hodge on Apr 26, 2015 23:22:15 GMT
Nope the deal to move to CBC only came through after shooting S5 ended. Read PM's first post again. They thought they were done before any of the eps they filmed had even been seen. What alternative ending for S4? There was an alternative Ruby/Julia scene and an alternate letter from Julia. There was an alternate ending for S3 I knew there was an alternative letter, but what's this about an alternative Ruby/Julia scene? On the DVD there is another scene with Ruby/Julia with the proposal telegram that was never sent. I think I like it better. |
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Post by snacky on Apr 27, 2015 8:12:50 GMT
That said, I was quite concerned for Julia's character, as she really did show signs of a character about to be killed off. I'm quite glad those fears were unfounded. lol, you're so understated in the aftermath. You were terrified they were planning to kill Julia off from about 5 minutes after the honeymoon!  I'm also glad your premonition proved to be wrong. I was just reading an article about Shondra Rhimes' habit shocking the audience by killing off lead characters, and I'm wondering whether there's a certain school of TV writing concerning sacrificing your lead characters to the great gods of your story.  |
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Post by snacky on Apr 27, 2015 8:28:43 GMT
Nope the deal to move to CBC only came through after shooting S5 ended. Read PM's first post again. They thought they were done before any of the eps they filmed had even been seen. What alternative ending for S4? There was an alternative Ruby/Julia scene and an alternate letter from Julia. There was an alternate ending for S3 You're right - I was thinking of the train. But there might have been an alternative wedding ending as well I could swear I read somewhere that CBC co-funded season 5 with City, and then reran season 5 several times while the production was fully moved over for Season 6. But also that season 5 was written to be the last season in case CBC didn't pick it up. Anyway, if PM is laying it at the door of resentful writers, many of those same writers were still on board when the show was picked up again during season 5, so they sort of set up their own punishment! Also the show was still developed by Shaftesbury. The question is whether they knew they had been picked up somewhere for Season 5 (or whether they knew they would be cancelled at the end of Season 4, or whether they trusted Christine Jennings would do her best to work something out). PM may not even know because he wasn't there yet when all this was going on. |
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Post by lizmc on Apr 27, 2015 8:56:03 GMT
At the MM luncheon last month, Sean Harraher said that the cast was told the series had been cancelled right before they shot the baseball game scenes and they knew nothing about a CBC deal...they all thought it would be over .....
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Post by Hodge on Apr 27, 2015 15:55:30 GMT
Nope the deal to move to CBC only came through after shooting S5 ended. Read PM's first post again. They thought they were done before any of the eps they filmed had even been seen. What alternative ending for S4? There was an alternative Ruby/Julia scene and an alternate letter from Julia. There was an alternate ending for S3 You're right - I was thinking of the train. But there might have been an alternative wedding ending as well I could swear I read somewhere that CBC co-funded season 5 with City, and then reran season 5 several times while the production was fully moved over for Season 6. But also that season 5 was written to be the last season in case CBC didn't pick it up. Anyway, if PM is laying it at the door of resentful writers, many of those same writers were still on board when the show was picked up again during season 5, so they sort of set up their own punishment! Also the show was still developed by Shaftesbury. The question is whether they knew they had been picked up somewhere for Season 5 (or whether they knew they would be cancelled at the end of Season 4, or whether they trusted Christine Jennings would do her best to work something out). PM may not even know because he wasn't there yet when all this was going on. I don't understand why you think the end of S4 was the result of resentful writers. PM said nothing about that, just that he picked up a mess. When MM was on CityTV the end of every season could have been the end of the show. They did two endings for S3 so that they could have a happy ending if it wasn't picked up again. It was picked up for S4 and had a disastrous ending, maybe they knew there was going to be a S5 this time and they'd have time to put things right, or just thought it was a suitable way to end the show. We really don't know what they were thinking. PM came on board for S5 and did his best to make it right for the end of S5. Then they were cancelled. That's when CBC came into the picture, they picked it up for S6 and bought the rights to S5 which they then showed whilst S6 was being filmed. |
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Post by Hodge on Apr 27, 2015 16:03:52 GMT
At the MM luncheon last month, Sean Harraher said that the cast was told the series had been cancelled right before they shot the baseball game scenes and they knew nothing about a CBC deal...they all thought it would be over ..... Yes I remember him saying that and all credit to the actors that they still managed to pull off a great scene! |
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Post by snacky on Apr 27, 2015 16:22:35 GMT
At the MM luncheon last month, Sean Harraher said that the cast was told the series had been cancelled right before they shot the baseball game scenes and they knew nothing about a CBC deal...they all thought it would be over ..... Do you know anything about Season 4? The actual crux of the matter is whether the producers/writers would have allowed the show to end with Murdoch in Wonderland "as is". Alternatives: 1) They knew the show would have a season 5 at City (or with some funding from CBC?) or at least that plan was being negotiated. 2) They didn't know about the cancellation at the time Murdoch in Wonderland was written/filmed. 3) There may be an alternate ending to Murdoch in Wonderland that would have been used if the series had been cancelled. Fallenbelle refuses to watch season 4 because she thinks the TPTB would have deliberately ended the series on Murdoch in Wonderland as written. I can only imagine the fan response at the time. |
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Post by snacky on Apr 27, 2015 16:28:26 GMT
I don't understand why you think the end of S4 was the result of resentful writers. PM said nothing about that, just that he picked up a mess. When MM was on CityTV the end of every season could have been the end of the show. They did two endings for S3 so that they could have a happy ending if it wasn't picked up again. It was picked up for S4 and had a disastrous ending, maybe they knew there was going to be a S5 this time and they'd have time to put things right, or just thought it was a suitable way to end the show. We really don't know what they were thinking. PM came on board for S5 and did his best to make it right for the end of S5. Then they were cancelled. That's when CBC came into the picture, they picked it up for S6 and bought the rights to S5 which they then showed whilst S6 was being filmed. That's so horrible to have to write the end of each season as if it was the end of the show. But I've also noticed that you call them "series" instead of "seasons" in Canada - probably for that reason. Now that they have cliffhangers at the end of each season, what would happen if they weren't renewed or bumped from the schedule for some reason?   |
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Post by snacky on Apr 27, 2015 16:31:29 GMT
PM came on board for S5 and did his best to make it right for the end of S5. With Helene available for just a handful of episodes, lol. |
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Post by lizmc on Apr 27, 2015 16:43:28 GMT
At the MM luncheon last month, Sean Harraher said that the cast was told the series had been cancelled right before they shot the baseball game scenes and they knew nothing about a CBC deal...they all thought it would be over ..... Yes I remember him saying that and all credit to the actors that they still managed to pull off a great scene! It was also quite funny when he talked about Yannick rehearsing and missing each time he tried to hit the home run....then when they were ready to do the take, he hit it perfectly first time.....what a star...... |
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Post by Hodge on Apr 27, 2015 17:16:44 GMT
Yes I remember him saying that and all credit to the actors that they still managed to pull off a great scene! It was also quite funny when he talked about Yannick rehearsing and missing each time he tried to hit the home run....then when they were ready to do the take, he hit it perfectly first time.....what a star...... Guess he's a better actor than baseball player. Gets it right when the camera's rolling! |
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However, I don't think it was his intention, I do believe they were trying to give more story to Emily and George, and while this was a good idea, I think they panned out a bit too far. I didn't dislike more story on those two, but not at the expense of William. Hopefully, balance does get restored. I have some faith as well.
