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Post by snacky on Oct 13, 2015 7:05:16 GMT
Not all that thrilled with Mr Shatner, but it was a decent episode otherwise, I liked the twist with the other target. And I enjoyed the ever annoying Higgins and of course George. And Margaret! Always lovely to see Arwen. I stumbled across a posting by evilpete in the Murdoch Mysteries FB page about Mr Shatner, and it seemed fair to me. I didn't seem to find it anywhere in this board, but if I missed it I apologize for reprinting. Peter Mitchell The whole Shatner/Holbrook/twain thing was a challenge. Mr Twain had many looks in his life, Holbrook chose one that has now become iconic and is the look was associate with Twain. As for how he sounded in real life the best we could find was an audio tape of an actor friend of his imitating his speaking voice. It was also impossible to determine the differences between the public and the private Twain. We decided the smart thing to do was not have Mr Shatner try to play Mr Holbrook and just have fun with it... Honestly, I had trouble understanding a lot of Shatner's line: I'll have to watch the show over again to get those lines. But I was watching a low quality version. I'm wondering if he was easier to understand on TV. I didn't think twice about what Mark Twain was "supposed" to look like. I was disappointed he didn't discuss his friendship with Tesla when Julia brought Tesla up. That first ep of MM with William holding the light bulb in Tesla's workshop was basically a famous picture of Mark Twain. Also, if there was a hint of Twain's famous dispute with Toronto copyright pirates, I missed it. Perhaps this would have undermined the image of Toronto the Good?  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Oct 13, 2015 9:50:57 GMT
Well, it wasn't my favorite episode, but I certainly didn't dislike it. Nice characterization for the Brackenreids, and a nice portrayal of how George isn't going to just immediately waltz back into his old life. That said, Henry was a jerk, but I suspect that he was setting himself up for a fall that will be coming soon ( and I think William is helping him do it). Score one for Snacky's hubris theory!
After lots of 'ship last week, not much at all this week, but that's okay. There certainly was quite a bit in that look William shot Julia after the bartender (forgot his name) got shot and after he told her that he didn't want her on the stage with Twain. I bet there was an argument when they got home!
I'm exhausted-perhaps more will come to me later.
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Post by murdochic on Oct 13, 2015 10:31:35 GMT
That was an enjoyable episode and it had me laughing a lot. I'm guessing it was Margaret who burned that gazebo down.
It was great to see more of Higgins because I find him hilarious and I like his and George's childish rivalry. Aww Higgins still can't get a girlfriend, but I like him getting a bit of the glory in rank, because George has had the same for 8 seasons. I'm assuming George will finally be writing that 2nd book of his.
The banter between W/J was really entertaining. As if William could ever tell Julia what to do and succeed. I also liked how Julia was so proud of William while she boasted of his inventions. A good amount of Julia and a good amount of everyone except Emily. Did Georgina have limited availability? The last couple of episodes have been very light on her. Considering she's about to leave it's a shame she's not around much. But with the others i'm loving they're all getting things to do and this season is feeling more balanced.
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Post by lizmc on Oct 13, 2015 11:03:49 GMT
I don't think so, because, not to point too fine a point on it, Higgins is dumb......William won't put up with him and George will outperform him, and he'll end up back where he started. I don't think there is any malice in Higgins......Lillian is not dumb, far from it....Lillian is embittered, argumentative and rude....... So we like dumb jerks but loathe smart ones? Still feels like a double-standard for female characters to me.  When did I say I like dumb jerks? Higgins annoyed me in this episode, but he was being stupid, not malicious....he will get his comeuppance and it will be apparent he has been promoted past his abilities....Lillian is an entirely different issue, and my dislike of her is not a double standard and has nothing to do with her being female, or a lesbian, for that matter...... |
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Post by murdochic on Oct 13, 2015 11:19:31 GMT
I don't see why Higgins shouldn't have gotten a promotion. Like George he's been a constable for years and if one can be promoted then both can. George will be back as a 3rd class constable soon enough. They could both have the same rank, surely there's room for more than one constable 3rd class at the station. But as Higgins is always outshone by George, he'll probably be demoted to 2nd class while George gets back as 3rd class.
Liliian isn't the easiest person to love, but I don't think she's quite as annoying as it's claimed by some posters. Emily and Margaret can also be prickly at times. And Brackenreid can be a downright a-hole sometimes, but all the characters have their less that stellar sides. Lillian hasn't even done anything particularly prickly so far this season anyway, she's barely been in it. Who knows what she'll have done in the next episode, but so far she's been fine.
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Post by oklahomafan on Oct 13, 2015 13:13:22 GMT
f Of course I have been trying to think of something and that is perfect. At the rate Higgins is going he will be third class again soon. Wow is he annoying. However not as annoying as Lillian. The women cannot say something nice to save her life apparently. Doesn't need a man to speak for them?!?!? Well the men are going to have to be the ones to vote for her to have the vote. It won't happen by magic... I am really beginning to dislike this role and I didn't think there was anything in Murdoch I disliked. Higgins was pretty much a jerk this episode. I'm curious if that will earn him the same loathing as Lillian. That's a good question. I actually don't think Higgins will create the same reaction as Lillian. He is annoyingly cute but from the beginning I feel like Lillian has just been caustic. Her treatment of Julia in the beginning was down right disrespectful. She is an angry woman and seems very self righteous. Her way is the only way. A trait that is very difficult. I keep reminding myself that the writers mean for Emily to be able to see something good in her but it is difficult to find. Lillian seems to have zero compassion. I also recognize that her parents really were cruel to her but... As for Higgins he has always been a bit of a doofus and making him senior constable really went to his head. Stealing toiletries you can just see George's suspended disbelief, disdain and sad resignation. As if George is saying 'just what I expected from Henry sigh...' This show is so complex in character development and layers of meaning and acting, while still being a straightforward mystery solving environment. Really great stuff! |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Oct 13, 2015 13:24:13 GMT
Not all that thrilled with Mr Shatner, but it was a decent episode otherwise, I liked the twist with the other target. And I enjoyed the ever annoying Higgins and of course George. And Margaret! Always lovely to see Arwen. I stumbled across a posting by evilpete in the Murdoch Mysteries FB page about Mr Shatner, and it seemed fair to me. I didn't seem to find it anywhere in this board, but if I missed it I apologize for reprinting. Peter Mitchell The whole Shatner/Holbrook/twain thing was a challenge. Mr Twain had many looks in his life, Holbrook chose one that has now become iconic and is the look was associate with Twain. As for how he sounded in real life the best we could find was an audio tape of an actor friend of his imitating his speaking voice. It was also impossible to determine the differences between the public and the private Twain. We decided the smart thing to do was not have Mr Shatner try to play Mr Holbrook and just have fun with it... Honestly, I had trouble understanding a lot of Shatner's line: I'll have to watch the show over again to get those lines. But I was watching a low quality version. I'm wondering if he was easier to understand on TV. I didn't think twice about what Mark Twain was "supposed" to look like. I was disappointed he didn't discuss his friendship with Tesla when Julia brought Tesla up. That first ep of MM with William holding the light bulb in Tesla's workshop was basically a famous picture of Mark Twain. Also, if there was a hint of Twain's famous dispute with Toronto copyright pirates, I missed it. Perhaps this would have undermined the image of Toronto the Good? No, he wasn't easier to understand on TV. Oh yeah, I do seem to recall that pic now that you mention it. I guess they didn't want to get into stuff that wasn't directly related to the storyline... |
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Post by murdochic on Oct 13, 2015 14:11:05 GMT
Higgins was pretty much a jerk this episode. I'm curious if that will earn him the same loathing as Lillian. That's a good question. I actually don't think Higgins will create the same reaction as Lillian. He is annoyingly cute but from the beginning I feel like Lillian has just been caustic. Her treatment of Julia in the beginning was down right disrespectful. She is an angry woman and seems very self righteous. Her way is the only way. A trait that is very difficult. I keep reminding myself that the writers mean for Emily to be able to see something good in her but it is difficult to find. Lillian seems to have zero compassion. I also recognize that her parents really were cruel to her but... As for Higgins he has always been a bit of a doofus and making him senior constable really went to his head. Stealing toiletries you can just see George's suspended disbelief, disdain and sad resignation. As if George is saying 'just what I expected from Henry sigh...' This show is so complex in character development and layers of meaning and acting, while still being a straightforward mystery solving environment. Really great stuff! I wouldn't say Lillian has zero compassion, she can just be too rash and over zealous. She ended up applauding Mark Twain, so that was her acknowledging she'd been too judgmental. I'm mostly indifferent to her, but there's been a lot worse on MM. Giles for one was as bad as she is, if not even worse. As for Higgins, there where the times with George being the best man to W/J, getting his book published, having a posh pen, and getting credit for his work on cases, have gone to his head and he's lorded it over Higgins. They're best friends, but they sometimes act like children. George gave as good as he got in this episode: he manipulated Higgins into taking the 10 mile trip, he butted in on Higgins undercover work, and he made sure Higgins didn't get into the Empire club. He wasn't an innocent victim. They were as bad as each other. |
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Post by Hodge on Oct 13, 2015 16:40:51 GMT
I don't see why Higgins shouldn't have gotten a promotion. Like George he's been a constable for years and if one can be promoted then both can. George will be back as a 3rd class constable soon enough. They could both have the same rank, surely there's room for more than one constable 3rd class at the station. But as Higgins is always outshone by George, he'll probably be demoted to 2nd class while George gets back as 3rd class. Liliian isn't the easiest person to love, but I don't think she's quite as annoying as it's claimed by some posters. Emily and Margaret can also be prickly at times. And Brackenreid can be a downright a-hole sometimes, but all the characters have their less that stellar sides. Lillian hasn't even done anything particularly prickly so far this season anyway, she's barely been in it. Who knows what she'll have done in the next episode, but so far she's been fine. Just a quick correction here. Constable 3rd class is what George has been demoted to, he has to make his way back to constable 1st class. I have to admit that I haven't hated Lillian quite as much in the first two eps of this season. Still doesn't mean I'll like her any time soon and it looks like I won't need to worry if what we think is going to happen in the next ep comes true. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 13, 2015 17:20:20 GMT
Well, it wasn't my favorite episode, but I certainly didn't dislike it. Nice characterization for the Brackenreids, and a nice portrayal of how George isn't going to just immediately waltz back into his old life. That said, Henry was a jerk, but I suspect that he was setting himself up for a fall that will be coming soon ( and I think William is helping him do it). Score one for Snacky's hubris theory!. Ooh, that never occurred to me! But I can see a big police ethics discussion in light of Henry enjoying a few too many perks! I loved Henry's business card, lol.  |
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Post by snacky on Oct 13, 2015 17:24:50 GMT
Aww Higgins still can't get a girlfriend, but I like him getting a bit of the glory in rank, because George has had the same for 8 seasons. I'm assuming George will finally be writing that 2nd book of his. But with the others i'm loving they're all getting things to do and this season is feeling more balanced. This shift to Higgins as a guy who can't get a date is a curious shift from the lothario who brought a high class date to the Twentieth Century Policeman's Ball. I've noticed Jackson is missing so far. I don't really mind since there were too many characters in the kitchen during Season 8. However, I'd like to see the Bro-mobile again, and Jackson is a bro! |
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Post by snacky on Oct 13, 2015 17:29:00 GMT
So we like dumb jerks but loathe smart ones? Still feels like a double-standard for female characters to me. When did I say I like dumb jerks? Higgins annoyed me in this episode, but he was being stupid, not malicious....he will get his comeuppance and it will be apparent he has been promoted past his abilities....Lillian is an entirely different issue, and my dislike of her is not a double standard and has nothing to do with her being female, or a lesbian, for that matter...... I just don't see the malice in Lillian that everyone else sees. I see a determined feminist and a radical protester. Her rude remarks to Julia came from her principles, whereas Henry was just being an ass. |
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Post by snacky on Oct 13, 2015 17:34:07 GMT
I don't see why Higgins shouldn't have gotten a promotion. Liliian isn't the easiest person to love, but I don't think she's quite as annoying as it's claimed by some posters. Emily and Margaret can also be prickly at times. And Brackenreid can be a downright a-hole sometimes, but all the characters have their less that stellar sides. Lillian hasn't even done anything particularly prickly so far this season anyway, she's barely been in it. Who knows what she'll have done in the next episode, but so far she's been fine. I think Fallenbelle has something regarding the hubris theory here: Henry is headed for some comeuppance! That's exactly my POV regarding Lillian. She has a lot of flaws, but so do other characters. I think people were particularly offended by Lillian's attack on marriage/William - but to me this is a believable attitude in the historical context. I noticed that the Pankhursts have now been explicitly mentioned! I wonder what Inspector B said when Emily announced she was leaving instead of giving up her "childish" games... |
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Post by snacky on Oct 13, 2015 17:49:19 GMT
As for Higgins, there where the times with George being the best man to W/J, getting his book published, having a posh pen, and getting credit for his work on cases, have gone to his head and he's lorded it over Higgins. They're best friends, but they sometimes act like children. George gave as good as he got in this episode: he manipulated Higgins into taking the 10 mile trip, he butted in on Higgins undercover work, and he made sure Higgins didn't get into the Empire club. He wasn't an innocent victim. They were as bad as each other. Lol - good reminder about the Pen Pirate! And in the past Higgins has shown how he wishes he were recognized as a good detective as well. He was really happy when he could provide clues about the piano-maker in the bomber case. |
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Post by oklahomafan on Oct 13, 2015 22:07:31 GMT
Very good points. They make such crazy good friends. Remember when Higgins was in a coma and George read to him everyday? Great stuff.
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