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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2015 4:32:24 GMT
Wow, I get annoyed by your use of "annoying" and the rather liberal definition of the term "plot holes" LOL! The only thing I find annoying are the annoying new characters!  I have noticed lately that people seem to be finding a lot of plot holes. Could that be because they're now looking for them? I don't know why people can't just suspend disbelief for an hour to watch a WORK OF FICTION!  The plot hole problem has nothing to do with suspension of disbelief. When events in a story are improbable or impossible given historical events or the current laws of physics, viewers suspend their disbelief to enter the world of the story. Plot holes are a problem of story mechanics: they present an inconsistency, contradiction, or egregious gap in information within the terms of the story-world the writers already created. Plot holes sabotage the suspension of disbelief. For instance, the arrangement of the electro-plated ladies in a place at some distance from the factory presents a plot hole because the story has presented us with single woman who committed the crime: and no provision was made to endow her with super-strength or magic powers. If the story had informed us earlier that the woman had levitation powers, that would have required a suspension of disbelief (quite improbable!) but it would have fixed the plot hole. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 25, 2015 4:39:17 GMT
LOL! The only thing I find annoying are the annoying new characters! I have noticed lately that people seem to be finding a lot of plot holes. Could that be because they're now looking for them? I don't know why people can't just suspend disbelief for an hour to watch a WORK OF FICTION! The plot hole problem has nothing to do with suspension of disbelief. When events in a story are improbable or impossible given historical events or the current laws of physics, viewers suspend their disbelief to enter the world of the story. Plot holes are a problem of story mechanics: they present an inconsistency, contradiction, or egregious gap in information within the terms of the story-world the writers already created. Plot holes sabotage the suspension of disbelief. For instance, the arrangement of the electro-plated ladies in a place at some distance from the factory presents a plot hole because the story has presented us with single woman who committed the crime: and no provision was made to endow her with super-strength or magic powers. If the story had informed us earlier that the woman had levitation powers, that would have required a suspension of disbelief (quite improbable!) but it would have fixed the plot hole. You're taking things way too seriously! It's a TV show for crying out loud, it doesn't have to make sense! All we've heard about since the beginning of this season is plot holes. If you don't like it don't watch it. |
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Post by evilpete1 on Nov 25, 2015 5:03:35 GMT
Assumptions. She is a prostitute therefore stupid. She could have easily understood the process of electroplating. She had a long term relationship with the opener of the factory. She understood hoe it worked. Also she could have easily known the position of the characters in the Last Supper.
Elecrtroplating would have added insignificant weight to the body. She also could have understood the concept, practice and proper usage of levers, weights, pulleys, dollys and wheelbarrows. (Transport accomplished)
Toronto after dark was a ghost town in 1903. Moving something from here to there would have attracted little attention ...
And on and on...
The sad thing is, if the perp had Ben the burley factory owner we wouldn't be having this conversation - but a woman who is somewhat worldly and has the knowledge and ability to employ the common tools at her disposal. UNBELIEVABLE. Which is strange sine there have been innumerable unbelievable MM episodes conceived before and after my tenure
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2015 5:42:42 GMT
Assumptions. She is a prostitute therefore stupid. She could have easily understood the process of electroplating. She had a long term relationship with the opener of the factory. She understood hoe it worked. Also she could have easily known the position of the characters in the Last Supper. Elecrtroplating would have added insignificant weight to the body. She also could have understood the concept, practice and proper usage of levers, weights, pulleys, dollys and wheelbarrows. (Transport accomplished) Toronto after dark was a ghost town in 1903. Moving something from here to there would have attracted little attention ... And on and on... The sad thing is, if the perp had Ben the burley factory owner we wouldn't be having this conversation - but a woman who is somewhat worldly and has the knowledge and ability to employ the common tools at her disposal. UNBELIEVABLE. Which is strange sine there have been innumerable unbelievable MM episodes conceived before and after my tenure I didn't blink at her knowing the process of electroplating - that was entertaining. The stumbling block for me was moving the women to another building. Plot holes occur in all sorts of TV shows and books. If you think mentions of plot holes have gone up recently, you should take another look at the production criteria. If it's just one person nitpicking, then blow it off. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2015 5:50:14 GMT
The plot hole problem has nothing to do with suspension of disbelief. When events in a story are improbable or impossible given historical events or the current laws of physics, viewers suspend their disbelief to enter the world of the story. Plot holes are a problem of story mechanics: they present an inconsistency, contradiction, or egregious gap in information within the terms of the story-world the writers already created. Plot holes sabotage the suspension of disbelief. For instance, the arrangement of the electro-plated ladies in a place at some distance from the factory presents a plot hole because the story has presented us with single woman who committed the crime: and no provision was made to endow her with super-strength or magic powers. If the story had informed us earlier that the woman had levitation powers, that would have required a suspension of disbelief (quite improbable!) but it would have fixed the plot hole. You're taking things way too seriously! It's a TV show for crying out loud, it doesn't have to make sense! All we've heard about since the beginning of this season is plot holes. If you don't like it don't watch it. The story mechanics do have to make sense within the world that's been built: story structure and internal consistency is the nature of the art form. Your willingness to overlook plot holes is not the same as suspension of disbelief. If you were watching a string of totally disconnected events with no logical connection, then you'd be unable to suspend your disbelief: you'd think: "Well, this is crap" and change the channel. I could have said "if you don't like it don't watch it" about your active dislike of Lillian. I wasn't the first person to mention plot holes, and I'm not the only one to mention it, so I think MM would be sadly bereft of viewers if everyone who has dared to point out a plot hole was excluded from viewership as you recommend. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 25, 2015 5:58:27 GMT
Assumptions. She is a prostitute therefore stupid. She could have easily understood the process of electroplating. She had a long term relationship with the opener of the factory. She understood hoe it worked. Also she could have easily known the position of the characters in the Last Supper. Elecrtroplating would have added insignificant weight to the body. She also could have understood the concept, practice and proper usage of levers, weights, pulleys, dollys and wheelbarrows. (Transport accomplished) Toronto after dark was a ghost town in 1903. Moving something from here to there would have attracted little attention ... And on and on... The sad thing is, if the perp had Ben the burley factory owner we wouldn't be having this conversation - but a woman who is somewhat worldly and has the knowledge and ability to employ the common tools at her disposal. UNBELIEVABLE. Which is strange sine there have been innumerable unbelievable MM episodes conceived before and after my tenure I didn't blink at her knowing the process of electroplating - that was entertaining. The stumbling block for me was moving the women to another building. Plot holes occur in all sorts of TV shows and books. If you think mentions of plot holes have gone up recently, you should take another look at the production criteria. If it's just one person nitpicking, then blow it off. Never mind the wheelbarrow, not all women are weak and physical size has nothing to do with it. Yes but people keep watching and reading them. If there are too many plot holes for you then perhaps it's time you found yourself another show to watch. Obviously you're not getting the enjoyment you should from the show. As far as I'm concerned I'll overlook things like this as long as the story keeps me interested. I've abandoned many a show when they've become boring but not because of plot holes. It's not real life, if you want that then watch a documentary. I'll stick to watching MM for as long as it's on ... unless it becomes boring, and I doubt that will happen any time soon! |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 25, 2015 6:09:00 GMT
You're taking things way too seriously! It's a TV show for crying out loud, it doesn't have to make sense! All we've heard about since the beginning of this season is plot holes. If you don't like it don't watch it. The story mechanics do have to make sense within the world that's been built: story structure and internal consistency is the nature of the art form. Your willingness to overlook plot holes is not the same as suspension of disbelief. If you were watching a string of totally disconnected events with no logical connection, then you'd be unable to suspend your disbelief: you'd think: "Well, this is crap" and change the channel. I could have said "if you don't like it don't watch it" about your active dislike of Lillian. I wasn't the first person to mention plot holes, and I'm not the only one to mention it, so I think MM would be sadly bereft of viewers if everyone who has dared to point out a plot hole was excluded from viewership as you recommend. I think overlooking plot holes is very much a suspension of disbelief. We're not watching a string of totally disconnected events and that's rather a silly comparison IMO. Strange Empire was a string of totally disconnected events and I managed to watch it up until the Christmas break, I just couldn't be bothered watching it again afterwards because the characters didn't interest me enough. Why would I stop watching because of one character I didn't like? I understood her place in the storylines, I didn't have to like her though. Again a totally silly comparison. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2015 6:10:08 GMT
Yes but people keep watching and reading them. If there are too many plot holes for you then perhaps it's time you found yourself another show to watch. Obviously you're not getting the enjoyment you should from the show. As far as I'm concerned I'll overlook things like this as long as the story keeps me interested. I've abandoned many a show when they've become boring but not because of plot holes. It's not real life, if you want that then watch a documentary. I'll stick to watching MM for as long as it's on ... unless it becomes boring, and I doubt that will happen any time soon! I should let you know it's a special peeve of mine when people say "maybe you should watch somewhere else" - especially when they are the first to complain about what they don't like. Maybe you should have gone to watch something else when the marriage wasn't as in evidence as you wanted it to be all last year. Even in this thread, you felt free to complain about characters that you don't like. It's extremely arrogant to take that privilege for yourself and then boss other people around. Even fiction does have to make internal sense: it is *your choice* to overlook plot holes, bad characterization, or anything else you want. However, a work of fiction does have structure: otherwise it's just a string of words. |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 25, 2015 6:23:30 GMT
Yes but people keep watching and reading them. If there are too many plot holes for you then perhaps it's time you found yourself another show to watch. Obviously you're not getting the enjoyment you should from the show. As far as I'm concerned I'll overlook things like this as long as the story keeps me interested. I've abandoned many a show when they've become boring but not because of plot holes. It's not real life, if you want that then watch a documentary. I'll stick to watching MM for as long as it's on ... unless it becomes boring, and I doubt that will happen any time soon! I should let you know it's a special peeve of mine when people say "maybe you should watch somewhere else" - especially when they are the first to complain about what they don't like. Maybe you should have gone to watch something else when the marriage wasn't as in evidence as you wanted it to be all last year. I may complain about some things but they don't spoil the story for me. I can always find other things within the show that keep me watching.  |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2015 6:31:30 GMT
I should let you know it's a special peeve of mine when people say "maybe you should watch somewhere else" - especially when they are the first to complain about what they don't like. Maybe you should have gone to watch something else when the marriage wasn't as in evidence as you wanted it to be all last year. I may complain about some things but they don't spoil the story for me. I can always find other things within the show that keep me watching. That's my point: you are the only one talking about not watching MM - and moreover you are pronouncing over whether other people should be watching it or not. I've always supported watching MM, and in this thread I was supporting the characters of Tess, Freddie, and Rebecca James. |
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Post by shangas on Nov 25, 2015 10:59:21 GMT
**Holds up his umbrella to shield himself against the shitstorm**
Wow!! This thread is like Jerry Springer!
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Post by murdochic on Nov 25, 2015 17:19:12 GMT
The plot hole problem has nothing to do with suspension of disbelief. When events in a story are improbable or impossible given historical events or the current laws of physics, viewers suspend their disbelief to enter the world of the story. Plot holes are a problem of story mechanics: they present an inconsistency, contradiction, or egregious gap in information within the terms of the story-world the writers already created. Plot holes sabotage the suspension of disbelief. For instance, the arrangement of the electro-plated ladies in a place at some distance from the factory presents a plot hole because the story has presented us with single woman who committed the crime: and no provision was made to endow her with super-strength or magic powers. If the story had informed us earlier that the woman had levitation powers, that would have required a suspension of disbelief (quite improbable!) but it would have fixed the plot hole. You're taking things way too seriously! It's a TV show for crying out loud, it doesn't have to make sense! All we've heard about since the beginning of this season is plot holes. If you don't like it don't watch it. There's been two noticable plot holes in recent episodes, the first was the missing scene for Double Life which explained that Lillian's killer had killed the private investigator. I already assumed that from him saying he didn't want any one in Toronto knowing he was alive, but it wasn't on screen and it left a question mark for some posters. The 2nd is what happened to the gold stash in the Summer of '75, and if Dobson had it all those years why was he still a lowly police constable. It was left unexplained. Funnily enough, I have never thought Barenaked Ladies had plot holes. I found it plausable that she'd know how to electroplate, move the bodies with a wheelbarrow etc, and she'd been a church goer so knew all about the imagery of the last supper. But there's plot holes I've noticed this season without looking for them. It's why I'd wondered in another thread whether more explanation scenes had been edited out and that's what we were missing. Maybe it's the fault of the editors and not the writers. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2015 17:32:29 GMT
**Holds up his umbrella to shield himself against the shitstorm** Wow!! This thread is like Jerry Springer! If you don't like it, just leave the forum! ***JOKE***  |
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Post by snacky on Nov 25, 2015 17:41:46 GMT
There's been two noticable plot holes in recent episodes, the first was the missing scene for Double Life which explained that Lillian's killer had killed the private investigator. I already assumed that from him saying he didn't want any one in Toronto knowing he was alive, but it wasn't on screen and it left a question mark for some posters. The 2nd is what happened to the gold stash in the Summer of '75, and if Dobson had it all those years why was he still a lowly police constable. It was left unexplained. Funnily enough, I have never thought Barenaked Ladies had plot holes. I found it plausable that she'd know how to electroplate, move the bodies with a wheelbarrow etc, and she'd been a church goer so knew all about the imagery of the last supper. But there's plot holes I've noticed this season without looking for them. It's why I'd wondered in another thread whether more explanation scenes had been edited out and that's what we were missing. Maybe it's the fault of the editors and not the writers. The Double Life plot hole definitely had the eau de missing scene. I was surprised that in Canada actors were paid by the hour and by the episode as temps. Perhaps editors are also contingent workers without particular investment in the show...? Interesting that you didn't have that stumbling moment for Barenaked Ladies, and I didn't have that stumbling moment for Summer of '75. As Hodge said, perhaps if you are absorbed in other elements of the episode, perhaps you skim right over problems with the mystery. |
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Post by murdochic on Nov 25, 2015 17:51:18 GMT
I'm not particularly bothered by the unanswered gold question in the Summer of '75, it's just something I've been left to wonder about. It didn't detract from the episode for me and IMO it was a solid story. I thought we'd had enough explanation in Barenaked Ladies that I wasn't left wondering about how the crime was committed. The only thing that episode left me questioning about was why Julia had quit the Asylum, and now I'm wondering if there was an explanation edited out of the episode. Maybe Evilpete can give us the answer to that and the gold, lol.
Hopefully we'll get a full explanation on Rebecca's background. Other posters are correct that we never had Emily's background really delved into. I was always so curious about her family.
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I have noticed lately that people seem to be finding a lot of plot holes. Could that be because they're now looking for them? I don't know why people can't just suspend disbelief for an hour to watch a WORK OF FICTION! 
