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Post by Hodge on Nov 28, 2015 1:38:16 GMT
For what it's worth, I like Rebecca James: as I said somewhere else she has just the right balance of restraint and forthrightness. She is being well played by the actress and I enjoy her scenes. I like her as well......I also like how they seem to be gradually feeding background out on her as well........there is a lot of potential in what they can explore through her character.... They don't seem to be making the same mistake with Rebecca as they did with Emily. We seem to be learning about her gradually rather than having her plunked into the middle of things as a supposedly fully formed character. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 28, 2015 8:45:28 GMT
Other than Little Orphan Annie, I'm hard-pressed to think of a case where a rich person randomly picks out a poor person to bestow a college education on. Couldn't she have won a scholarship? Been part of a special advancement programme? Been a child of staff in an affluent person's house? Been an employee of said affluent person herself? Been an illegitimate child of a wealthy family? There are a whole host of reasons she could have been singled out to be sent to a college or university. Rebecca referred to her "patron". If she's the child of a household servant or an employee, the same consideration applies. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 28, 2015 8:49:12 GMT
I like her as well......I also like how they seem to be gradually feeding background out on her as well........there is a lot of potential in what they can explore through her character.... They don't seem to be making the same mistake with Rebecca as they did with Emily. We seem to be learning about her gradually rather than having her plunked into the middle of things as a supposedly fully formed character. I agree with this. |
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Post by lizmc on Nov 28, 2015 18:22:17 GMT
Couldn't she have won a scholarship? Been part of a special advancement programme? Been a child of staff in an affluent person's house? Been an employee of said affluent person herself? Been an illegitimate child of a wealthy family? There are a whole host of reasons she could have been singled out to be sent to a college or university. Rebecca referred to her "patron". If she's the child of a household servant or an employee, the same consideration applies. But Snacky, my point is, there are a whole host of reasons a bright child could have been singled out by a wealthy patron. It may have had nothing to do with her parents.......for all we know at this point, she may have been an orphan........I believe Andrew Carnegie was a direct patron in some cases. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 28, 2015 18:33:46 GMT
Rebecca referred to her "patron". If she's the child of a household servant or an employee, the same consideration applies. But Snacky, my point is, there are a whole host of reasons a bright child could have been singled out by a wealthy patron. It may have had nothing to do with her parents.......for all we know at this point, she may have been an orphan........I believe Andrew Carnegie was a direct patron in some cases. All sorts of things could happen: my point is wealthy people usually don't offer patronage randomly: they are usually introduced to the person they are sponsoring through a particular program (like the Governor's thing William won) or personal connections. How that introduction is made is the interesting part of the story. |
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Post by oklahomafan on Nov 28, 2015 18:47:28 GMT
I like her as well......I also like how they seem to be gradually feeding background out on her as well........there is a lot of potential in what they can explore through her character.... They don't seem to be making the same mistake with Rebecca as they did with Emily. We seem to be learning about her gradually rather than having her plunked into the middle of things as a supposedly fully formed character. I think this adds a great dimension to the show and the actress has already shown herself to be very authentic in my opinion. The scene where the director (or whatever his position is) threatened her with physical violence was true to reports of the time sadly. |
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Post by lizmc on Nov 28, 2015 19:45:18 GMT
But Snacky, my point is, there are a whole host of reasons a bright child could have been singled out by a wealthy patron. It may have had nothing to do with her parents.......for all we know at this point, she may have been an orphan........I believe Andrew Carnegie was a direct patron in some cases. All sorts of things could happen: my point is wealthy people usually don't offer patronage randomly: they are usually introduced to the person they are sponsoring through a particular program (like the Governor's thing William won) or personal connections. How that introduction is made is the interesting part of the story. The "Governor's thing" would be an award scheme through the office of Governor General, who is the Queen's representative (or in Murdoch's time, the King's representative) in Canada and would be based on accomplishments in the schools in each province. That is why William was representing Nova Scotia. It would not "die" with the GG, it would continue with each GG, and would not have anything to do with the recipients' parents. Nor would it be likely that any of them have a personal connection with the GG, and more than likely would have never met the GG. The fact that William won such an award would only prove what I think we would have already suspected.....he was a bright kid. The award would not have been presented to those kids because the GG, as an individual, just happened to take a liking to them......it would all be handled through an official selection process.
Since all we have to go on in Rebecca's case is one line, "My patron died", we have no way of knowing anything about how she came to receive the patronage, and cannot make blanket statements about it having anything to do with her parents or anyone else. I'm sure the writers will tell us more, if they decide it is relevant to the upcoming stories.......
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Post by lizmc on Nov 28, 2015 20:00:25 GMT
In case anyone is interested, the Governor General at the time on the episode "Summer of '75" would have been Lord Dufferin, who was appointed by Queen Victoria and was GG from 1872 to 1878. He is actually one of the most memorable GGs in our history, mainly for his efforts in ensuring the preservation of the historic battlements of Quebec City. Here is some information on him from the Governor General's website: www.gg.ca/document.aspx?id=15406&lan=eng |
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Post by oklahomafan on Nov 28, 2015 20:25:13 GMT
All sorts of things could happen: my point is wealthy people usually don't offer patronage randomly: they are usually introduced to the person they are sponsoring through a particular program (like the Governor's thing William won) or personal connections. How that introduction is made is the interesting part of the story. The "Governor's thing" would be an award scheme through the office of Governor General, who is the Queen's representative (or in Murdoch's time, the King's representative) in Canada and would be based on accomplishments in the schools in each province. That is why William was representing Nova Scotia. It would not "die" with the GG, it would continue with each GG, and would not have anything to do with the recipients' parents. Nor would it be likely that any of them have a personal connection with the GG, and more than likely would have never met the GG. The fact that William won such an award would only prove what I think we would have already suspected.....he was a bright kid. The award would not have been presented to those kids because the GG, as an individual, just happened to take a liking to them......it would all be handled through an official selection process.
Since all we have to go on in Rebecca's case is one line, "My patron died", we have no way of knowing anything about how she came to receive the patronage, and cannot make blanket statements about it having anything to do with her parents or anyone else. I'm sure the writers will tell us more, if they decide it is relevant to the upcoming stories.......
I had just assumed this of course but I took the Governors award to be something the kids competed for by doing a science project or writing an essay on something sciency. Mostly based on Murdoch today he would have been that kind of kid I think... |
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Post by snacky on Nov 28, 2015 21:21:09 GMT
The "Governor's thing" would be an award scheme through the office of Governor General, who is the Queen's representative (or in Murdoch's time, the King's representative) in Canada and would be based on accomplishments in the schools in each province. That is why William was representing Nova Scotia. It would not "die" with the GG, it would continue with each GG, and would not have anything to do with the recipients' parents. Nor would it be likely that any of them have a personal connection with the GG, and more than likely would have never met the GG. The fact that William won such an award would only prove what I think we would have already suspected.....he was a bright kid. The award would not have been presented to those kids because the GG, as an individual, just happened to take a liking to them......it would all be handled through an official selection process.
Since all we have to go on in Rebecca's case is one line, "My patron died", we have no way of knowing anything about how she came to receive the patronage, and cannot make blanket statements about it having anything to do with her parents or anyone else. I'm sure the writers will tell us more, if they decide it is relevant to the upcoming stories.......
I had just assumed this of course but I took the Governors award to be something the kids competed for by doing a science project or writing an essay on something sciency. Mostly based on Murdoch today he would have been that kind of kid I think... Yes: such programs are often sponsored by a rich patron or a few rich patrons: the few major university scholarships left in the US have their roots in Robber Baron money - Mellon, Rockefeller, Carnegie, etc. Personal patronage also still exists, but it's a real challenge to get the connection to be considered for it. Wealthy people tend to discourage circumstances in which everyone will be after them for their money. It seems to me a good part of white privilege relates to chance of contact with potential patrons. |
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Post by snacky on Nov 28, 2015 21:33:43 GMT
All sorts of things could happen: my point is wealthy people usually don't offer patronage randomly: they are usually introduced to the person they are sponsoring through a particular program (like the Governor's thing William won) or personal connections. How that introduction is made is the interesting part of the story. The "Governor's thing" would be an award scheme through the office of Governor General, who is the Queen's representative (or in Murdoch's time, the King's representative) in Canada and would be based on accomplishments in the schools in each province. That is why William was representing Nova Scotia. It would not "die" with the GG, it would continue with each GG, and would not have anything to do with the recipients' parents. Nor would it be likely that any of them have a personal connection with the GG, and more than likely would have never met the GG. The fact that William won such an award would only prove what I think we would have already suspected.....he was a bright kid. The award would not have been presented to those kids because the GG, as an individual, just happened to take a liking to them......it would all be handled through an official selection process.
Since all we have to go on in Rebecca's case is one line, "My patron died", we have no way of knowing anything about how she came to receive the patronage, and cannot make blanket statements about it having anything to do with her parents or anyone else. I'm sure the writers will tell us more, if they decide it is relevant to the upcoming stories....... Would William have referred to either the Governor or the Queen as his patron? You also have to remember that this program was in Canada: the situation in the US has always been geared a lot more toward "private funding". There was a brief expansion of government funding after World War II, which was basically for R&D and Western Civ cold cultural war. That's been slowly replaced by more universal "financial aid" programs, but the relative dollar worth of these years has withered a way to a pittance over the years. As I mentioned in my reply to Murdochic, the major full tuition, room, and board awards are endowments from huge industrialist tycoons that were spawned during William's time. I'm not sure how this system evolved, but the US government gives taxbreaks to gazillionaires who create foundations or fund nonprofits to deal with social issues. I'd rather live in Canada.  |
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Post by Hodge on Nov 29, 2015 0:20:00 GMT
Would William have referred to either the Governor or the Queen as his patron? You also have to remember that this program was in Canada: the situation in the US has always been geared a lot more toward "private funding". There was a brief expansion of government funding after World War II, which was basically for R&D and Western Civ cold cultural war. That's been slowly replaced by more universal "financial aid" programs, but the relative dollar worth of these years has withered a way to a pittance over the years. As I mentioned in my reply to Murdochic, the major full tuition, room, and board awards are endowments from huge industrialist tycoons that were spawned during William's time. I'm not sure how this system evolved, but the US government gives taxbreaks to gazillionaires who create foundations or fund nonprofits to deal with social issues. I'd rather live in Canada. No one was a patron in this case. It wasn't a scholarship or money towards education, it was a prize awarded for academic achievement. |
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Post by lizmc on Nov 29, 2015 1:11:02 GMT
The "Governor's thing" would be an award scheme through the office of Governor General, who is the Queen's representative (or in Murdoch's time, the King's representative) in Canada and would be based on accomplishments in the schools in each province. That is why William was representing Nova Scotia. It would not "die" with the GG, it would continue with each GG, and would not have anything to do with the recipients' parents. Nor would it be likely that any of them have a personal connection with the GG, and more than likely would have never met the GG. The fact that William won such an award would only prove what I think we would have already suspected.....he was a bright kid. The award would not have been presented to those kids because the GG, as an individual, just happened to take a liking to them......it would all be handled through an official selection process.
Since all we have to go on in Rebecca's case is one line, "My patron died", we have no way of knowing anything about how she came to receive the patronage, and cannot make blanket statements about it having anything to do with her parents or anyone else. I'm sure the writers will tell us more, if they decide it is relevant to the upcoming stories....... Would William have referred to either the Governor or the Queen as his patron? You also have to remember that this program was in Canada: the situation in the US has always been geared a lot more toward "private funding". There was a brief expansion of government funding after World War II, which was basically for R&D and Western Civ cold cultural war. That's been slowly replaced by more universal "financial aid" programs, but the relative dollar worth of these years has withered a way to a pittance over the years. As I mentioned in my reply to Murdochic, the major full tuition, room, and board awards are endowments from huge industrialist tycoons that were spawned during William's time. I'm not sure how this system evolved, but the US government gives taxbreaks to gazillionaires who create foundations or fund nonprofits to deal with social issues. I'd rather live in Canada. Snacky, it was not the Governor, it was the Governor General, who is the Queen's Representative, so an honour from the Governor General, is an honour from the Queen. Also as Hodge pointed out, it would not be in the role as a patron, the award would be given as part of a government vetted programme.
And we still don't know enough about the circumstances of Rebecca's sponsorship to make any conclusions.
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Post by snacky on Nov 29, 2015 1:36:26 GMT
Would William have referred to either the Governor or the Queen as his patron? You also have to remember that this program was in Canada: the situation in the US has always been geared a lot more toward "private funding". There was a brief expansion of government funding after World War II, which was basically for R&D and Western Civ cold cultural war. That's been slowly replaced by more universal "financial aid" programs, but the relative dollar worth of these years has withered a way to a pittance over the years. As I mentioned in my reply to Murdochic, the major full tuition, room, and board awards are endowments from huge industrialist tycoons that were spawned during William's time. I'm not sure how this system evolved, but the US government gives taxbreaks to gazillionaires who create foundations or fund nonprofits to deal with social issues. I'd rather live in Canada. Snacky, it was not the Governor, it was the Governor General, who is the Queen's Representative, so an honour from the Governor General, is an honour from the Queen. Also as Hodge pointed out, it would not be in the role as a patron, the award would be given as part of a government vetted programme.
And we still don't know enough about the circumstances of Rebecca's sponsorship to make any conclusions.
MM writers have only a few words with which to paint the characters, so it's my impression those words are chosen carefully. But I guess time will tell regarding Rebecca's backstory.  |
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Post by dita on Apr 21, 2017 2:13:37 GMT
You people really make a big deal out of nothing. The characters are who they are and if you don't like it, watch something else!
Besides, this chat is supposed to be for those who want to chat and agree that Rebecca James is terrible, this isn't meant for arguments.
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