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Post by snacky on Mar 22, 2016 20:38:40 GMT
Eva wasn't in love with William, she was obsessed with him. She couldn't manipulate him like she could other men, and he belongs to Julia: her female nemisis, so those two things made William someone she wanted to have sexual control over, which she convinced her mentally ill mind was love. She would've killed him if he'd kept rejecting her, and if Julia hadn't come to the rescue. That is why Julia went there because she knew what was going on in Eva's mind. I totally agree with you on this. Eva was used to getting what she wanted. She was always manipulative and once William knew how she worked he wasn't playing along and became a challenge to her. I suspect that once incarcerated in Ward C she became unhinged, I think anyone would, and she became obsessed with him. She obviously blamed Julia, both for William not being interested and being ignored in Ward C, even though she herself had manipulated the insanity verdict. If he had continued rejecting her she would have had no compunction whatsoever to kill him. Julia knew exactly what Eva was going to do. I think it would have improved my impression of the ep if it seemed like Eva was obsessed over not being able to manipulate William, and that ruining her life somehow. However, George stated Eva was in love with William, and that diminished her character a lot for me. Perhaps I'm also bummed because I especially liked the idea of Eva as William's super-nemesis, which would require her to be a sociopathic genius - rational in her own way. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 22, 2016 20:43:34 GMT
Actually, suppose for a moment if Eva had actually had William? Would she have kept him long term? I think not. William was the ultimate trophy and represented her greatest failures. Once she'd achieved that goal, I think she would have gotten rid of him pretty quickly. Not only did he not want her, but I think William knew that as well. He was a toy to her. That reminds me of a couple thems in the show that didn't seem to play out adequately. One was Eva's obsession with the "frozen" phrase. Where did that come from? This could have linked to her intended fate for William (as the stuffed animals suggested). Also, the cabin scenario didn't mirror Eva's childhood experience: I felt it should have since that was Julia's main clue as to where Eva went. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 22, 2016 20:51:39 GMT
Julia: her female nemisis I never got the sense Julia was a specific nemesis for Eva. Julia was her enemy who wouldn't let her out of the asylum, and she certainly used her wiles with William to also get Julia's goat, but once she escaped, I didn't think any urge for revenge would be particularly focused on Julia. I do believe Eva would have shot Julia if she was getting in the way of her goal at the moment. This episode would have made more sense to me if there was foreshadowing to show Eva obsessed with Julia (like the letters from Leslie Garland during Season 8. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 22, 2016 20:54:45 GMT
I'm glad to hear it was Sean's idea to be killed off. It would have been sad if Worsley had been axed for plot reasons. Though I actually do notice the background constables and losing Worsley will seem as weird as when we lost Hodge. As for the ending to the episode, it's not the first time a season has ended on a positive or quite positive note. Not every season has had a cliffhanger and to be honest I liked that we got a break from that this year. We don't have to worry about who is returning in S10 because we already know for certain. As mentioned before, this was something like the Murdoch Trap 2-parter. IMHO, this episode would have been a lot better as a two parter. They could have saved the George Gets A New Girl ep for next year. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 22, 2016 20:57:05 GMT
Okay, I was seriously bummed about Constable Worsely, but it appears that it was his call. Also, very vague spoilers about season 10 and general musings on how they make the show. www.tv-eh.com/2016/03/21/murdoch-mysteries-season-9-end-and-whats-to-come-in-season-10/What I found interesting is that they had the idea of William being kidnapped by someone and being held captive along with sexual overtones before they even had the idea of using Eva... or that they plan the season in three acts and don't really know where the season will end when they begin planning it. Very interesting... They also admitted that the episode came out of the image of Julia on a horse/with bow and arrow. That's exactly what the episode seemed like - a story cobbled around that image. Revenge!Julia is a great image, but there needed to be more story to support it. |
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Post by lizmc on Mar 22, 2016 22:28:50 GMT
I'm glad to hear it was Sean's idea to be killed off. It would have been sad if Worsley had been axed for plot reasons. Though I actually do notice the background constables and losing Worsley will seem as weird as when we lost Hodge. As for the ending to the episode, it's not the first time a season has ended on a positive or quite positive note. Not every season has had a cliffhanger and to be honest I liked that we got a break from that this year. We don't have to worry about who is returning in S10 because we already know for certain. As mentioned before, this was something like the Murdoch Trap 2-parter. IMHO, this episode would have been a lot better as a two parter. They could have saved the George Gets A New Girl ep for next year. I agree with the comments that seemed to be too much crammed into this episode, especially the second half, but I'm not sure there was enough to support a full 2 hours.......this is one of those occasions I wish we could follow the British practice of programs occasionally spilling over a bit longer than their normal length. An hour and 20 minutes or an hour and half would have done it, I think. Having said that, I still really enjoyed it and am waiting for next season without worrying about if a major character has snuffed it..... |
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 0:31:08 GMT
As mentioned before, this was something like the Murdoch Trap 2-parter. IMHO, this episode would have been a lot better as a two parter. They could have saved the George Gets A New Girl ep for next year. I agree with the comments that seemed to be too much crammed into this episode, especially the second half There might have been 2 hours there if we had gotten some back story for Eva that led to her plan and/or cornered her into going after William and Julia at that moment. Also, the brain machine could have gotten more play as well as William's effort to find the shooter. If this was going to be a 2-parter, a good cliffhanger ending could be William vanishing, with his hat left behind. There could have been concern he had turned vigilante out of distrust of the system. Julia's search for William - perhaps attempting to think like him as well as Eva - deserved an episode of its own. After reading the comments, I think it would have been more interesting to see Eva obsess over Julia as an *intellectual* rival that seemed more successful at manipulating people. Perhaps she felt her psychological therapy was Julia manipulating her. This dynamic could have reflected her childhood tragedy as well as some recent trigger event. I would have liked some uncertainty creep in regarding William's feelings about Eva. It was too obvious that he was just lying to Eva to escape. Too bad there are no redos. There was a lot more potential in this story, but now Eva has been killed off. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 1:59:17 GMT
I was just catching up with the TV-Eh comments. One by Paul Mitchell (!!!!??) Suggested the much of the episode could have been Julia's coma dream - which would reveal more about how Julia felt about Eva than anything else. If this was meant to be an interpretation of the ep, I wish there had been hints of that, with a big ambiguous hint in the last scene which could serve as the cliffhanger.
Many TV shows that have taken a ridiculous turn have fallen back on the "it was all a dream" strategy. Dallas infamously made an entire season a dream. Roseanne won accolades after she turned a panned final season into a mourning fantasy.
I could deal with the "dream" cliche if out gave us a more nefarious redo of Eva. Still, if this was ever considered, there should be a trail of bread crumbs through out the episode.
Also someone mentioned they hated Eva's song, which took up too much time. I totally agree with that remark. Is the song a thing in Misery? I usually hate it when a song gets foreground attention in TV shows. (I do enjoy music as background atmosphere, though.) It's worse when the song doesn't really connect with the action. Julia likes phonograph music - maybe she was listening to this before or during her coma? It's just filler otherwise.
Some also caught that Julia Puts On the Hat when she becomes the dynamic player in the ep. LOL, I want to believe that was intentional. Interesting no one returned William's hat in the end.
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Post by cathie on Mar 23, 2016 2:09:34 GMT
I laughed when Julia stumbled in to the police station--she walked through Toronto in her robe? Maybe I wasn't paying full attention -- but a bow and arrow in her room? A horse at the ready? I thought it was a dream sequence at first. Even after it was all over, they were riding on separate horses. I was waiting for something more: Julia and William on the same horse, Julia leaning against William (surely as a partner and equal even the most ardent feminist would allow her wounded body to be supported by her lover on the way home from a job well done, with Eva's body slung over the other horse, trailing behind).
The best part of this episode was when William yelled at the doctor. There was energy, desperation and passion in that brief outburst.
The primitive EEG was very cool.
I always enjoy MM, and I don't mind the occasional, more light-hearted themes. But occasionally I long for real suspense; in my view, this episode lost its tension when Julia slung that bow over her shoulder.
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Post by Hodge on Mar 23, 2016 2:34:32 GMT
I was just catching up with the TV-Eh comments. One by Paul Mitchell (!!!!??) Suggested the much of the episode could have been Julia's coma dream - which would reveal more about how Julia felt about Eva than anything else. If this was meant to be an interpretation of the ep, I wish there had been hints of that, with a big ambiguous hint in the last scene which could serve as the cliffhanger. Many TV shows that have taken a ridiculous turn have fallen back on the "it was all a dream" strategy. Dallas infamously made an entire season a dream. Roseanne won accolades after she turned a panned final season into a mourning fantasy. I could deal with the "dream" cliche if out gave us a more nefarious redo of Eva. Still, if this was ever considered, there should be a trail of bread crumbs through out the episode. Also someone mentioned they hated Eva's song, which took up too much time. I totally agree with that remark. Is the song a thing in Misery? I usually hate it when a song gets foreground attention in TV shows. (I do enjoy music as background atmosphere, though.) It's worse when the song doesn't really connect with the action. Julia likes phonograph music - maybe she was listening to this before or during her coma? It's just filler otherwise. Some also caught that Julia Puts On the Hat when she becomes the dynamic player in the ep. LOL, I want to believe that was intentional. Interesting no one returned William's hat in the end. Note that was PAUL Mitchell, not Peter Mitchell. He's on fb. This scenario was posited there. Not really impressed by it, it plays too much into 'it was all a dream'. I don't want this to be a dream as that would mean Eva Pearce is still out there. I hated the song, which is apparently an old one. |
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Post by randomkiwibirds on Mar 23, 2016 3:05:42 GMT
Yo! Tad late to the party here, as per usual. But whatevs. I probably should have sat down with my tablet when I watched this episode, and "live commented" sorta of what I was thinking at the time. This retrospective thing just isn't working, hence the alarming number of gifs..Anyway, onto my thoughts. First off congrats to the Show Runners, Cast and Crew for getting another season! I really enjoyed this episode! I noticed quite a few nods back to previous episodes -William getting rather emotional when Julia is involved. i.e. "Lovers in a Murderous Time" -Obessivly inventing things when distressed. i.e. "Friday the 13th 1901" -Julia's ability to tip, while William just no. i.e. "Murdoch Takes Manhattan" -The death at the asylum; scared to death. i.e. "Murdochophobia" -Julia's bows and arrows. i.e. "Winston's Lost Night" I'm pretty sure there were others but I can't really remember them now. Eva's weird singing sequence. No denying it. I thought that was weird. I had no problems with the song. Just the fact that she sung it. It seemed off? I don't know the word I'm looking for here...   To be honest I never really got the whole creepy obesssive love thing Eva had for Murdoch. It only really appeared last year after "The Incurables" and to be honest it didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I always saw Eva as a talented grifter, not a slightly insane woman, with obsessive tenancies. But after this episode, I can see how she slipped down such a path. Here is a guy - probably the only guy ever to turn her down - not only that but he thwarted her plans time and time again. He is a puzzle - an enigma to her; Why did he say no? How does he keep foiling her plans? The more she thinks about it, the more obessed she becomes. Julia - the person he loves becomes a problem, because she is the answer (or at least Eva thinks she's the answer) to her first question. Why did he say no? Because he is in love with someone else. Remove said person and he should say yes. And once she had him under her control, the answer to her second question would have come. The ironic thing is that if Eva had actually taken the time to know who Murdoch was she would know that her plan wouldn't have worked. That being said I thought her plan was rather sloppy for Eva Pearce, too many contingancies that she couldn't control - how did she know Julia was going to come to the door? What if William had decided to go to the door instead? I always thought her plans in the past were rather convoluted, although rather simple in their rewards. Play these to men against each other to kill other man. Get money from fiance's estate that mysteriously disappeared. Oh William when are you going to learn of the Magical Protective powers of the Homburg? Everyone else seems to have figured it out. At this time I'd like to take a moment of silence for Worsley. I'm gonna miss seeing your red head in the Stationhouse. (I will admit, although I thought his death was a bit unnecessary, I am glad it wasn't shock factor death, and was initiated by the actor himself.) OHMYFREAKINGGOSH The whole sequence when Julia is gearing up to go get William was just klashlasjglkasf Cometh the Archer indeed. (She got an episode named after her!!)  Although Julia I do not recommend getting into a fistfight when you literally had three bullets removed from your torso not less than three days ago, it is rather hazardous on your health. (Not to mention riding a horse for a distance, but you cantered so it was less of a jarring motion up your side. BUT STILL) Anyway I'm pretty sure most of this has been said before. Gonna need to come up with some alternate episode titles for this one.. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 3:06:52 GMT
I was just catching up with the TV-Eh comments. One by Paul Mitchell (!!!!??) Suggested the much of the episode could have been Julia's coma dream Note that was PAUL Mitchell, not Peter Mitchell. He's on fb. This scenario was posited there. Not really impressed by it, it plays too much into 'it was all a dream'. I don't want this to be a dream as that would mean Eva Pearce is still out there. I hated the song, which is apparently an old one. You don't think Eva still has potential as a smart nemesis? I've been yearning for William to square off with a challenging match. Eva had the potential to rise above being batty like Gillies. She had the skills to fulfill her greed. I loved Murdoch in Ladies Wear which portrayed the Sociopath as Promoted Manager. That's the Eva that threatens to win against William and puts him in genuine peril. For instance, she could play him by seeking his help for a child. |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 23, 2016 3:16:05 GMT
Note that was PAUL Mitchell, not Peter Mitchell. He's on fb. This scenario was posited there. Not really impressed by it, it plays too much into 'it was all a dream'. I don't want this to be a dream as that would mean Eva Pearce is still out there. I hated the song, which is apparently an old one. You don't think Eva still has potential as a smart nemesis? I've been yearning for William to square off with a challenging match. Eva had the potential to rise above being batty like Gillies. She had the skills to fulfill her greed. I loved Murdoch in Ladies Wear which portrayed the Sociopath as Promoted Manager. That's the Eva that threatens to win against William and puts him in genuine peril. For instance, she could play him by seeking his help for a child. If she were indeed still the sociopath but she seems to have sunken into a delusion in The Incurables so I think that storyline is lost. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 3:19:29 GMT
Yo! Tad late to the party here, as per usual. But whatevs. I probably should have sat down with my tablet when I watched this episode, and "live commented" sorta of what I was thinking at the time. This retrospective thing just isn't working, hence the alarming number of gifs..Anyway, onto my thoughts. First off congrats to the Show Runners, Cast and Crew for getting another season! I really enjoyed this episode! I noticed quite a few nods back to previous episodes -William getting rather emotional when Julia is involved. i.e. "Lovers in a Murderous Time" -Obessivly inventing things when distressed. i.e. "Friday the 13th 1901" -Julia's ability to tip, while William just no. i.e. "Murdoch Takes Manhattan" -The death at the asylum; scared to death. i.e. "Murdochophobia" -Julia's bows and arrows. i.e. "Winston's Lost Night" To be honest I never really got the whole creepy obesssive love thing Eva had for Murdoch. It only really appeared last year after "The Incurables" and to be honest it didn't make a whole lot of sense to me. I always saw Eva as a talented grifter, not a slightly insane woman, with obsessive tenancies I also noticed how the writers respect continuity in this quirky stuff (perhaps because fans help them stay on top of that), but seem to have trouble with character and story arc continuity. As much as I love and celebrate MM symbolism, that can't replace carefully plot and mystery case structuring. These symbol's are ornaments like Magnum's red Ferrari and always breaking into the wine cellar. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 3:26:22 GMT
You don't think Eva still has potential as a smart nemesis? I've been yearning for William to square off with a challenging match. Eva had the potential to rise above being batty like Gillies. She had the skills to fulfill her greed. I loved Murdoch in Ladies Wear which portrayed the Sociopath as Promoted Manager. That's the Eva that threatens to win against William and puts him in genuine peril. For instance, she could play him by seeking his help for a child. If she were indeed still the sociopath but she seems to have sunken into a delusion in The Incurables so I think that storyline is lost. I agree Eva's character was messed up in that ep. Too bad.  But even then I could chalk up a lot of her behavior to faking insanity while she cultivated her grudge. |
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But even then I could chalk up a lot of her behavior to faking insanity while she cultivated her grudge.
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT