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Post by Fallenbelle on Mar 23, 2016 3:58:57 GMT
Anyway I'm pretty sure most of this has been said before. Gonna need to come up with some alternate episode titles for this one.. May I suggest the following: "The Power of Love" by Huey Lewis and the News Detective William Murdoch "Don't Make Me Cut a Bitch" by Dr. Julia Ogden Oh, wait. She did. Fatal Attraction (but without boiling the bunny, okay?) |
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 4:33:01 GMT
Anyway I'm pretty sure most of this has been said before. Gonna need to come up with some alternate episode titles for this one.. May I suggest the following: "The Power of Love" by Huey Lewis and the News Detective William Murdoch "Don't Make Me Cut a Bitch" by Dr. Julia Ogden Oh, wait. She did. Fatal Attraction (but without boiling the bunny, okay?) I still don't understand the "eth" in "Cometh the Archer". I was hoping to find a Biblical or poetry quote that would make the title suddenly seem clever. They might as well have named it "Cometh the BAMF". I'm fond of your Choice 2, but unfortunately I suffer from the California politically correct version of feminism, so I have trouble with the "B" as well as the "MF" in BAMF. No takers for "The Murdoch Misery"? Or "The Ogden Files" (perhaps that would be more clever if a UFO were involved). "One Flew Over the Murdochs' Nest"? "Vengeance Murdoch Style"? |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 23, 2016 5:05:17 GMT
I still don't understand the "eth" in "Cometh the Archer". I was hoping to find a Biblical or poetry quote that would make the title suddenly seem clever. They might as well have named it "Cometh the BAMF". What's wrong with the title? Cometh is just an old fashioned word, nothing more. Would you rather they'd used 'Comes the Archer' instead? Wouldn't that insinuate the wrong thing?? |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Mar 23, 2016 5:11:29 GMT
I still don't understand the "eth" in "Cometh the Archer". I was hoping to find a Biblical or poetry quote that would make the title suddenly seem clever. They might as well have named it "Cometh the BAMF". What's wrong with the title? Cometh is just an old fashioned word, nothing more. Would you rather they'd used 'Comes the Archer' instead? Wouldn't that insinuate the wrong thing?? Kiwi has long been coming up with cheeky alternative titles for episodes. I added a few to be playful. I don't have a problem with the title (quite like it actually) and I doubt Kiwi does either. We're just snarky like that. Sorry if I presumed incorrectly, Kiwi. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 6:23:03 GMT
I still don't understand the "eth" in "Cometh the Archer". I was hoping to find a Biblical or poetry quote that would make the title suddenly seem clever. They might as well have named it "Cometh the BAMF". What's wrong with the title? Cometh is just an old fashioned word, nothing more. Would you rather they'd used 'Comes the Archer' instead? Wouldn't that insinuate the wrong thing?? "Cometh" makes no sense even as an old-fashioned word. No one in the Edwardian era said "cometh" - that's a Medieval word. If the phrase was referencing a literary quote, that would be a different story. Also, I think they should have stuck with a "Murdoch" construct in this case, because the twist would have been it being a reference to Mrs. Murdoch!  |
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 6:24:20 GMT
What's wrong with the title? Cometh is just an old fashioned word, nothing more. Would you rather they'd used 'Comes the Archer' instead? Wouldn't that insinuate the wrong thing?? lol, does it say bad things about me that I read your alternative title in a xxx way? |
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Post by valouumm on Mar 23, 2016 9:10:58 GMT
Hi everybody, I'm French, so I can't see this episode yet. Someone have a link of ths episode in english ? Please !
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Post by murdochic on Mar 23, 2016 16:00:41 GMT
Yes, it felt a little crammed in the last quarter and I wished Worsley's death could've had a bigger impact, but overall I really enjoyed this episode. I thought it was exciting, interesting, and it gave all the prominant characters some good material. I think it was overall a better season finale than last seasons, though not quite as good as some of the others. Cometh the Archer was a dramatic, romantic, and exciting way to go out for S9 and it was so much better than From Buffalo with Love; that's good enough for me.
I don't think how Eva was written was really out of character. She was already showing some psychotic tenancies in The Incurables, and after being in an asylum, and then being on the run for a year: while obsessing over William/Julia, it could've believably had her slipping into psychosis. Eva did always think William wanted her, only this time she took the delusion to the extreme. Julia has shown herself to be kickass plenty of times in the past so her going to Williams rescue also wasn't really unbelievable. We know she's a talented archer. MM like to be dramatic in season finales or season openers, this was no different.
For me the only episodes of S9 that I thought were especially weak or bad were: Double Life (I hate that episode), and From Buffalo With Love.
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 16:44:00 GMT
MM like to be dramatic in season finales or season openers, this was no different. I'm all for angst and drama: I was really looking forward to this episode because of that. I like the two main images the ep seemed to be built around: the brain machine (I agree with an earlier comment that the normally placid William yelling at the doctor to "GET OUT!" was great!) and Julia riding out in Raiders of the Lost Ark gear with her bow and arrow. Those are worthy anchor images! For me, there just wasn't enough story between those images. Your scenario for Eva might be plausible, but it requires the viewer to buy into a particular backstory we were never shown. The backstory that was being implied ("Eva went even more crazy over time and is driven by love for William") was not the backstory that followed automatically from previous episodes with Eva: my assumption had been that she went on to scam more men, bided her time in getting revenge because she was capitalizing on her success and building up her resources (and possibly meeting other enemies of William), and when she came back she would be William's most dangerous adversary ever. Dangerous because she was smart and successful, not because she was crazy. This is, of course, the backstory I was filling into the void: the question is how other viewers "played out" Eva's character. It sounds like the backstory you developed in Eva's absence was more compatible as a premise for Cometh the Archer. William's yearning for a child and recent loss of Roland is canon - that also could have been exploited in a more menacing way. Real angst would have made William *actually* weak to Eva's attack in some way. In this ep, it was given that William wouldn't consider Eva's proposal for a second: she was crazy, she shot his wife, she held him captive in an isolated cabin. There wasn't a second of suspense over whether William would take Eva's appeal to his supposed desire for a child seriously. There was no tension in his relationship with Julia: they had just agreed to adopt a child after he skipped church for some nookie! The best villains make the good guys question their own motives and manipulate them into limited choices. While many people hate Murdoch in Wonderland because the show could have ended on that episode, it's one of my favorites because the "villain" forced William to make a hard choice with real consequences. William wasn't making any choices while tied to a bed: he was only disrespecting Eva's intelligence by pretending to like her despite everything she had done to him. |
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Post by bookworm1225 on Mar 23, 2016 17:30:44 GMT
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Post by Hodge on Mar 23, 2016 17:32:35 GMT
What's wrong with the title? Cometh is just an old fashioned word, nothing more. Would you rather they'd used 'Comes the Archer' instead? Wouldn't that insinuate the wrong thing?? Kiwi has long been coming up with cheeky alternative titles for episodes. I added a few to be playful. I don't have a problem with the title (quite like it actually) and I doubt Kiwi does either. We're just snarky like that. Sorry if I presumed incorrectly, Kiwi. I don't have a problem with alternative cheeky titles. I just didn't understand why snacky thought there was something wrong with "cometh". Sure it's not a word that's used these days but that doesn't mean it's not a great word for the title. I like the title! |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 23, 2016 17:33:28 GMT
What's wrong with the title? Cometh is just an old fashioned word, nothing more. Would you rather they'd used 'Comes the Archer' instead? Wouldn't that insinuate the wrong thing?? lol, does it say bad things about me that I read your alternative title in a xxx way? EXACTLY!! |
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Post by Hodge on Mar 23, 2016 18:52:36 GMT
I'm all for angst and drama: I was really looking forward to this episode because of that. I like the two main images the ep seemed to be built around: the brain machine (I agree with an earlier comment that the normally placid William yelling at the doctor to "GET OUT!" was great!) and Julia riding out in Raiders of the Lost Ark gear with her bow and arrow. Those are worthy anchor images! For me, there just wasn't enough story between those images. Your scenario for Eva might be plausible, but it requires the viewer to buy into a particular backstory we were never shown. The backstory that was being implied ("Eva went even more crazy over time and is driven by love for William") was not the backstory that followed automatically from previous episodes with Eva: my assumption had been that she went on to scam more men, bided her time in getting revenge because she was capitalizing on her success and building up her resources (and possibly meeting other enemies of William), and when she came back she would be William's most dangerous adversary ever. Dangerous because she was smart and successful, not because she was crazy. This is, of course, the backstory I was filling into the void: the question is how other viewers "played out" Eva's character. It sounds like the backstory you developed in Eva's absence was more compatible as a premise for Cometh the Archer. William's yearning for a child and recent loss of Roland is canon - that also could have been exploited in a more menacing way. Real angst would have made William *actually* weak to Eva's attack in some way. In this ep, it was given that William wouldn't consider Eva's proposal for a second: she was crazy, she shot his wife, she held him captive in an isolated cabin. There wasn't a second of suspense over whether William would take Eva's appeal to his supposed desire for a child seriously. There was no tension in his relationship with Julia: they had just agreed to adopt a child after he skipped church for some nookie! The best villains make the good guys question their own motives and manipulate them into limited choices. While many people hate Murdoch in Wonderland because the show could have ended on that episode, it's one of my favorites because the "villain" forced William to make a hard choice with real consequences. William wasn't making any choices while tied to a bed: he was only disrespecting Eva's intelligence by pretending to like her despite everything she had done to him. As for Eva and decline into insanity. I was talking to a friend yesterday, who I've converted to MM despite her resistance, she's a retired nurse. During training they were taken to a mental institution (back when she was training they still had asylums), they spent the day there. She said after just one day she could see how anyone living in such a place could go insane even if they were perfectly fine when they went in. She said it was the most disturbing place she has ever been. So, Eva had spent a year locked in a very confined space with four extremely disturbed women, I think she could very well have become delusional at the very least. I LOVE Murdoch in Wonderland, I think it's one of the best episodes in the series. The one thing I don't like is Julia marries Darcy despite her love for William. That's just not Julia IMO. She doesn't need to marry for convention's sake so just why did she want to marry anyone in the first place (other than William as he wasn't going to 'compromise' her any other way - unless he was drunk). The only reason I could think of was to make herself unavailable to William and she found out that that wasn't necessary, therefore she should have told Darcy the wedding was off. Of course we wouldn't have got S5 & 6 without that wedding and possibly wouldn't have just finished S9 now. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 18:57:32 GMT
Kiwi has long been coming up with cheeky alternative titles for episodes. I added a few to be playful. I don't have a problem with the title (quite like it actually) and I doubt Kiwi does either. We're just snarky like that. Sorry if I presumed incorrectly, Kiwi. I don't have a problem with alternative cheeky titles. I just didn't understand why snacky thought there was something wrong with "cometh". Sure it's not a word that's used these days but that doesn't mean it's not a great word for the title. I like the title! I like it when the titles have an extra layer of meaning. "Cometh" doesn't offer any meaning because it's a medievalism - and that has nothing to do with the era of Murdoch Mysteries, the particular episode, or a recondite literary reference. |
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Post by snacky on Mar 23, 2016 19:03:51 GMT
As for Eva and decline into insanity. I was talking to a friend yesterday, who I've converted to MM despite her resistance, she's a retired nurse. During training they were taken to a mental institution (back when she was training they still had asylums), they spent the day there. She said after just one day she could see how anyone living in such a place could go insane even if they were perfectly fine when they went in. She said it was the most disturbing place she has ever been. So, Eva had spent a year locked in a very confined space with four extremely disturbed women, I think she could very well have become delusional at the very least. That could have been an interesting story. One way to set it up would be to have Julia ponder whether she took the wrong path in her therapy with Eva. The groundwork could have been laid with earlier remarks that Eva had fallen under the delusion that William was her one true love. Eva might have even fallen in love with Julia (Stockholm Syndrome!). I still prefer a powerful, successful, sociopathic Eva. However, this ep would have seemed better to me if there had been a trail of bread crumbs leading in this direction. I just didn't feel prepared for this outcome for Eva. |
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Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT