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Post by lizmc on Jun 29, 2017 22:54:38 GMT
Loved to see Eva get hers.........and Julia as hero.......and, yes it was a bit far fetched, but exciting and fun, with several cheer out loud moments...... I actually wish they had not killed off Eva. It would have made for some interesting story ideas in later seasons. She could have been subdued and returned to the asylum or escaped the forest with an arrow wound in her shoulder after Julia kicked her butt and saved the day. Lost potential in my opinion. That's just what my thoughts on it were. But I always thought that Eva was an excellent antagonist and that they way she acted in this episode was not as out of charecter as some fans did. I think it also needed to be a two part episode. Have you seen the start of season 10 yet?
I think they portrayed Eva's descent into increased madness beautifully.........
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Post by zlundy on Jun 30, 2017 9:33:18 GMT
I actually wish they had not killed off Eva. It would have made for some interesting story ideas in later seasons. She could have been subdued and returned to the asylum or escaped the forest with an arrow wound in her shoulder after Julia kicked her butt and saved the day. Lost potential in my opinion. That's just what my thoughts on it were. But I always thought that Eva was an excellent antagonist and that they way she acted in this episode was not as out of charecter as some fans did. I think it also needed to be a two part episode. Have you seen the start of season 10 yet?
I think they portrayed Eva's descent into increased madness beautifully.........
Yes, I have seen all the episodes so far. And yes they did, every new episode she was in she got a little closer to insanity and seemed to have a little more attraction to William each time. |
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Post by lizmc on Jun 30, 2017 11:30:42 GMT
Have you seen the start of season 10 yet?
I think they portrayed Eva's descent into increased madness beautifully.........
Yes, I have seen all the episodes so far. And yes they did, every new episode she was in she got a little closer to insanity and seemed to have a little more attraction to William each time. I asked because I wanted to make sure you had seen how they brought her back in season 10.....I thought it was a very effective way to show Julia's ongoing problems with resolving what happened in Cometh the Archer....... |
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Post by zlundy on Jun 30, 2017 17:22:06 GMT
Yes, I have seen all the episodes so far. And yes they did, every new episode she was in she got a little closer to insanity and seemed to have a little more attraction to William each time. I asked because I wanted to make sure you had seen how they brought her back in season 10.....I thought it was a very effective way to show Julia's ongoing problems with resolving what happened in Cometh the Archer....... It is that. Wrestling with her own conscience in the debate over if her actions were justified or not. That was a good way to use the character after her death. I still would have preferred to have her be able to return at some future point and cause more trouble. They brought James Gillies back 3 times for goodness sake. So it would have been fun to have a question mark after Eva's name in the case file. |
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Post by sohifeykitten on Mar 7, 2023 21:02:22 GMT
Lucky you meeting Helene. Is she as beautiful and entertaining in person as she seems in interviews? Holy cow you guys...you went from 3 pages to 10 in no time flat!
I think overall this was a really good episode. I agree that it could have been at least 30 minutes longer in order to give us some closure on a few issues such as:
1) Eva shifting from sociopath to psychopath. I wonder if her tipping point began in The Incurables when William left her to save Julia. How much time has elapsed since then? Did anyone else notice that Eva was the nun on the stairs as Julia was being rusheed into the hospital? Was the waiter from the hotel the one who helped Eva?
2) Worsley's death came put of left field. I understand that Sean asked for this to happen so I have no issue with the "why" but we got no closure with any kind of remembrance for him...just that last ghastly death mask. (However, one of the FB fans has done a very nice job with that and Sean is very pleased.)
3) I'm wondering what, if anything, happened between William and Eva during that second night of captivity. She was hell bent on seducing him and William was defenceless. My only consolation is that Eva is dead so there cannot be a child resulting from it. There is also a great deal of fodder for psychological angst to begin S10. (Fallenbelle and I discussed this at length as we toured through Yokohama this afternoon....yes, I am in Japan, which is why I haven't posted until now. 
4) How did Julia go from surviving surgery and a coma to having the strength to ride for 2 days (in the winter no less) ending in a battle for her life? I am choosing to suspend my disbelief for the sake of the story but really....
I loved William's EEG machine. That was a very William way to handle his stress IMO.
I was completely fangirling BAMFY Julia. She was hot!
The shared blood resulting in a more deeply shared conciousness was a nice touch!
I'm sorry if I'm repeating some of the discussion but I haven't been able to get through it all! Nothing happened with William and Eva. Eva will have just continued to say how they'd be together soon and William will have found more ways to keep her at bay. He would not have become aroused by her, so she could'nt have raped him anyway. Julia's adrenaline and the morphine she was using will have kept her going. She will have been in a lot of discomfort though. But fear, love, and anger overrode all that. |
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Post by sohifeykitten on Mar 7, 2023 21:18:33 GMT
Lucky you meeting Helene. Is she as beautiful and entertaining in person as she seems in interviews? Holy cow you guys...you went from 3 pages to 10 in no time flat!
I think overall this was a really good episode. I agree that it could have been at least 30 minutes longer in order to give us some closure on a few issues such as:
1) Eva shifting from sociopath to psychopath. I wonder if her tipping point began in The Incurables when William left her to save Julia. How much time has elapsed since then? Did anyone else notice that Eva was the nun on the stairs as Julia was being rusheed into the hospital? Was the waiter from the hotel the one who helped Eva?
2) Worsley's death came put of left field. I understand that Sean asked for this to happen so I have no issue with the "why" but we got no closure with any kind of remembrance for him...just that last ghastly death mask. (However, one of the FB fans has done a very nice job with that and Sean is very pleased.)
3) I'm wondering what, if anything, happened between William and Eva during that second night of captivity. She was hell bent on seducing him and William was defenceless. My only consolation is that Eva is dead so there cannot be a child resulting from it. There is also a great deal of fodder for psychological angst to begin S10. (Fallenbelle and I discussed this at length as we toured through Yokohama this afternoon....yes, I am in Japan, which is why I haven't posted until now.
4) How did Julia go from surviving surgery and a coma to having the strength to ride for 2 days (in the winter no less) ending in a battle for her life? I am choosing to suspend my disbelief for the sake of the story but really....
I loved William's EEG machine. That was a very William way to handle his stress IMO.
I was completely fangirling BAMFY Julia. She was hot!
The shared blood resulting in a more deeply shared conciousness was a nice touch!
I'm sorry if I'm repeating some of the discussion but I haven't been able to get through it all! Nothing happened with William and Eva. Eva will have just continued to say how they'd be together soon and William will have found more ways to keep her at bay. He would not have become aroused by her, so she could'nt have raped him anyway. Julia's adrenaline and the morphine she was using will have kept her going. She will have been in a lot of discomfort though. But fear, love, and anger overrode all that. Okay I’m seeing a lot of posts that she couldn’t have “raped” William because he wouldn’t have been aroused etc etc. plot wise I’m confident that cannot says she didn’t get that far. HOWEVER William was definitely sexually assaulted and attempted rape can be very traumatic for survivors. Anyone who says that a person cannot be aroused by rape hasn’t done a lot of research or doesn’t know (or is unaware that they know someone) who has been raped. The brain doesn’t do a very good job of distinguishing the different manifestations of arousal, joy is arousal, non sexual excitement is arousal, sexual arousal is arousal, and sheer terror is a type of intense arousal. It is very common for rape victims to experience physiological sexual arousal during rape and is one of the things that is very common for survivors to experience severe emotional anguish and guilt over. Men are raped too and the show touches on that topic in later seasons too. The argument that Willam wasn’t raped simply because he wouldn’t have become aroused or “erect” is and I’ve been trying to be polite but Im quite irked so I’ll just come out and say it is straight up effed up victim blaming. Imagine if it were a women who survived an attempted or successful rape and was aroused by the experience would people dare say (now that we should know better) that she wasn’t raped or nearly raped simply because she experienced arousal. William was not raped yes it was only attempted but he was still quite severely and traumatically sexually assaulted, tortured, etc. (also it is possible for women to rape men and even to assault a man who is unconscious or even flaccid) Willam has experienced a lot of traumatizing things in his life an alcoholic abusive father whom William fully beloved for years (it was an actual accident), the death of his sister who left home young likely due to the environment etc. so this incident is one among manny and he has made himself a better detective for it. His character is a sexual assault Survivor and taking away from that is a harrowing reflection of the way that male survivors are treated even in a world over a century past when the story is set. |
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Post by sohifeykitten on Mar 7, 2023 21:41:51 GMT
William was talking about Julia killing Eva when he said "Don't ask". Eva could not have raped William because she couldn't have forced him to become aroused. It's like a century before Viagra was around so it's not as if she could've drugged him into arousal, and he wouldn't have naturally become so. He didn't have sex with her. Okay I’m seeing a lot of posts that she couldn’t have “raped” William because he wouldn’t have been aroused etc etc. plot wise I’m confident that canonically she didn’t get that far (yes attempted rape and rape are not the same but based on what she did do she all but raped him and definitely “molested”and violently sexually assaulted him. And of depictions of “near rape” go this was not a “the rescued character was saved before anything happened. Shit happened and it was violent) SERIOUSLY William was definitely sexually assaulted and attempted rape can be very traumatic for survivors. Anyone who says that a person cannot be aroused by rape hasn’t done a lot of research or doesn’t know (or is unaware that they know someone) who has been raped. The brain doesn’t do a very good job of distinguishing the different manifestations of arousal, joy is arousal, non sexual excitement is arousal, sexual arousal is arousal, and sheer terror is a type of intense arousal. It is very common for rape victims to experience physiological sexual arousal during rape and is one of the things that is very common for survivors to experience severe emotional anguish and guilt over. Seriously throwing away the idea that William could have been raped bc he wouldn’t have been aroused is very sexist,( offensive) and not based on the real world reality of the experience of survivors of sexual violence. Men are raped too and the show touches on that topic in later seasons too. The argument that Willam wasn’t raped simply because he wouldn’t have become aroused or “erect” is and I’ve been trying to be polite but Im quite irked so I’ll just come out and say it is straight up effed up victim blaming. Okay maybe I haven’t been so subtle but Im angry. Imagine if it were a women who survived an attempted or successful rape and was aroused by the experience would people dare say (now that we should know better) that she wasn’t raped or nearly raped simply because she experienced arousal (So much research proves this and if requested I will overload you will peer reviewed studies and survivor stories. ) and I’m not contradicting that (as far as I can gather from the writers and the official cannon the issue.) William was not raped …it was only attempted but he was still quite severely and traumatically sexually assaulted, tortured, etc. one of the most violent and not simply implied to shown in “flashback” that I’ve ever seen on television (also it is possible for women to rape men and even to assault a man who is unconscious or even flaccid) Willam has experienced a lot of traumatizing things in his life an alcoholic abusive father whom William fully beloved for years murders his beloved mother (it was an actual accident), the death of his sister (who he only briefly saw only to learn she was dying) who left home young likely due to the environment etc. so this incident is one among manny and he is a strong and resilient person so it’s just one of the plethora of things he has experienced and overcome. (His character personality, principals, and place he has given himself in his world as a catholic man who is deeply caring but ultimately always processional and the priority of nursing his beloved Julia back to health fit with him dealing with the personal trauma of that experience internally and personally. He “has to be strong for Julia” after all (though fistey Julia would want to be able to be there for him too if he let her even amidst her own struggles and brief emotional vulnerability) His character is a sexual assault Survivor and taking away from that is a harrowing reflection of the way that male survivors are treated even in a world over a century past when the story is set. So if the argument is that Willam wasn’t raped because he wouldn’t have been aroused alone then chances would be he was. And frankly he all but was (seriously) but Julia ever the anti damsel saves the day. |
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Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT
Jan 30, 2013 21:44:55 GMT