William Murdoch as a metaphor for Canada

[snacky]

I believe it's in Future Imperfect where H.G. Wells mentions that his impression of William Murdoch was "bland" - until he got to know him. Julia raises a spirited objection to that depiction.

It struck me that this is the impression that people in the U.S. (who suck at geography and global awareness in general) have of Canada. It's not that Canada doesn't have any flavor - people in the U.S. just don't realize it until they are hit over the head with a big frakking clue.

Compare William to Clark Kent/Superman. Both characters are good, naturally moral, upholders of justice. Both are mild-mannered, reserved in their every day lives -- traits that are more respected in Canada than they are in the U.S. Clark Kent has to take off his glasses and dominate people in physical fights to be an American-style Action Hero. William might take off his hat before he throws a punch, but he always remains in the placid character of William Murdoch. He gets the job done *as* Clark Kent.

The problem with introverts, and entire cultures that encourage "reserved" behavior, is people have to make an effort to get to know you. U.S.-style self-promotion and personal brand-building is shallow, cheesy, fake, and outright awful - but such behavior helps people to choose to get to know you. People have lots of demands on their attention and time, so if there is no reason to be roused from a default state of indifference, people will always choose the easy way out. Why go out of their way to learn about some quiet guy on the other side of the room when there are a dozen brazen folk around you clambering for attention? Why learn anything about your quiet neighboring country when it's doing nothing to make trouble in your life and there's nothing flashy about it to flag your attention?

One thing I really love about Murdoch Mysteries is it gave Canada some historical presence for me. Canada now has flavor. And I hope some of that flavor will rub off on the U.S.

[Deleted]

Snacky, You have a lot of really interesting ideas. As a Canadian I do wonder what Americans think of MM as it is very Canadian and British in its outlook. It would be interesting to see what other Americans think of your comments. For me, the character of William Murdoch represents the strength of virtue over evil. That he struggles all the time with the conflict between science and his beliefs is endearing because he always makes a decision based on what serves the truth. Julia encourages the wider view of the world that goes outside religious belief and looks at virtue for its own sake, not dictated by a higher being or institution, a far more advanced view of humanity. This is something that the world is certainly struggling with every day as we examine the role of religion in daily life, and in conflicts.

[snacky]

Mar 23, 2014 18:06:12 GMT @eus said:

Snacky, You have a lot of really interesting ideas. As a Canadian I do wonder what Americans think of MM as it is very Canadian and British in its outlook. It would be interesting to see what other Americans think of your comments. For me, the character of William Murdoch represents the strength of virtue over evil. That he struggles all the time with the conflict between science and his beliefs is endearing because he always makes a decision based on what serves the truth. Julia encourages the wider view of the world that goes outside religious belief and looks at virtue for its own sake, not dictated by a higher being or institution, a far more advanced view of humanity. This is something that the world is certainly struggling with every day as we examine the role of religion in daily life, and in conflicts.

I can't claim to speak for all Americans, but I think it's safe to generalize that the farther south you get, the less people know *anything* about Canada.

I would hesitate to use "virtue" to describe William Murdoch mainly because that word was much abused in American politics, very much like "personal responsibility". When powerful people want you to toe their line, they say it's a matter of "virtue" and "personal responsibility", and you have bad character if you dispute that. There are also strong class associations - like when European aristocrats used to call themselves "worthies" (implying that the lower classes were worthless).

(5 minutes go by)

I reread your comment, and I realized that your depicting William's virtue as a problematic, to be remedied by Julia's humanity. I totally agree...

(5 more minutes go by)

Back to Americans: I think we've largely given up on bothering with truth - here it's all about what you can get away with and how you look while doing that. We need to something that encourages us to at least work *toward* the truth and value earnestness (meaning intent to do the good thing, not just relentless honesty). There's just nothing in our cultural life that promotes those values anymore. Murdoch Mysteries is welcome relief from the American ethical dystopia.

[mrsbrisby]

As an American, I can see some merit in some of your comments. 

However, your generalizations of Americans are just that, generalizations, and as such have little validity. 
Resorting to generalizations is a tactic often employed the the uninformed, and which, by the way, sucks.

I think Canada is a great country, and there are ways I wish that we could be more like you. 

Your comparison of William Murdoch to Superman is a strange juxtaposition, and not necessarily the best comparison.  There are a number of television detectives who would have been better choices.

Murdoch is an extremely intelligent, moral, and responsible person.  He investigates and solves crime using logic.  He only resorts to physical violence when absolutely necessary.  He is calm, reasonable, thoughtful, and the rarest of things, a nice man.  Murdoch has no one but himself to rely on, and he has the integrity to accept the consequences of his actions.

Superman is a comic book character.  He is an alien.  His sense of justice is strong, but he isn't particularly bright.  He is a man of action.  Clark Kent is not all that admirable, because he counts on his alter ego to fight his fights for him.

You are confusing popularity with admiration.

Bland is not a word I would use to characterize Canadians.  The Canadians I know are polite and thoughtful, with wonderfully dry senses of humor.  They are very interesting to be with.

Just  like Americans there are Canadians who are good, bad, kind, evil, funny, mean, helpful, selfish, ... you get the idea.

Many friends of mine enjoy Murdoch Mysteries, we just wish we could get the current series. 

I am sorry you hate us, and I assure the feeling is not mutual.


 

[snacky]

A generalization isn't invalid because it's a generalization: a generalization stipulates it doesn't apply to everyone. A generalization may or may not be accurate as a generalization. I'll stick by the generalization that Americans are more hung up on image than truth, and that often puts us in an ethical quandary. I don't know Candada well enough to be confident that the values I see in Murdoch Mysteries can (generally) be applied to most Canadians. I realize the "nice Canadian" is a (dreaded?) stereotype, but if there is some truth in the stereotype, then that, in my opinion, speaks well of Canadians, and Americans could learn from it.

Regarding the Superman comparison - actually I was comparing Murdoch to Clark Kent, the mild-mannered "everyman". A couple of days ago I was watching Kill Bill Part 2, and near the end there is an interesting meta-analysis of Superman as the only super hero who has to put on a costume to be normal (as opposed to putting on the costume to become super-powered). I thought that fits William in a way: he is a mild-mannered everyman as long as he has his hat on, but once the hat is off and the tie is undone, he can really throw a punch! I did not mean to imply he has superpowers.

To relate that to the generalization: Americans put on a glitzy costume and present themselves as celebrity superheroes. Canadians try to present themselves as decent people, but there may be a superhero underneath.

Ps. In case it's not clear - I'm also American. I don't hate myself, but I do question the values that surround me and the nature of the social pressures.

[mrsbrisby]

As George would say, "I think we will have to disagree" on generalizations.

I regret that I am having difficulty understanding the comparison between Clark Kent and Murdoch. Clark Kent is one dimensional; Murdoch is multifaceted. Clark Kent pretends to be meek; Murdoch is truly a gentle man. Clark Kent depends on his alter ego to resolve conflicts: Murdoch uses reason and logic first, but is perfectly capable of bringing whatever resource or force to bear that is required in any given situation.

Murdoch is by far the more attractive and admirable man because of his complexity.

I share your regret that there are aspects of the generalized perception of Americans that is unattractive and undesirable.



I agree that the hat seems to restrict him in some weird way.

[Deleted]

mrs. Brisby and Snacky,
Thank you for your admiration of Canadians, I am glad that you have found that your interactions with Canadians have given you a positive view of this country.
Please remember that we are talking about a television show, albeit one that is made entirely in Canada with Canadian writers and producers, and mostly Canadian actors. I would say that the show does represent how we view ourselves in relation to the U.S. especially in the episodes War on Terror and The Spy Who Came Up to the Cold. We realize we are living next to a country that is very powerful and very rich and that we best be on good terms with it. On the other hand we are grateful for the good relationship we have.
When I was young there was very little in the way of Canadian produced TV and even less that was worth watching. So yeah I am really proud of this series because it is so darn good and it seems to have fans from all over the world. And as I live near Toronto, I can really relate to the locations mentioned.
As for the generalizations about American knowledge, it seems that some are true. A few years ago Rick Mercer, a comedian from Newfoundland who has his own tv series, made a show called Talking to Americans. In it he interviewed people from various walks of life, from college profs to moms, to students, to the president (George Bush) about Canada. My only guess is that not much about Canada is taught in school and that we are not much on the radar down there, because he got some pretty crazy answers. His regular tv series consists of a lot of political commentary that is really humorous: we regularly laugh at our politicians here. Of course the current mayor of Toronto makes this much easier than usual!
On the other hand we do learn about your country in school and through the media. We can't help it.

[snacky]

Mar 25, 2014 19:02:05 GMT @eus said:

 My only guess is that not much about Canada is taught in school and that we are not much on the radar down there, because he got some pretty crazy answers. His regular tv series consists of a lot of political commentary that is really humorous: we regularly laugh at our politicians here. Of course the current mayor of Toronto makes this much easier than usual!
On the other hand we do learn about your country in school and through the media. We can't help it.

I confess freely I know almost nothing about Canada, and a TV show is a very tiny sliver of a view. I do think Murdoch Mysteries puts Canada's best foot forward, though. For people who know nothing about Canada, it leaves a great impression.

I was taught NOTHING about Canada in high school. We had 2 history classes: World History and American History. Both those classes consisted of World War I and World War II. Those wars were taught from the perspective of a gung ho teacher that was primarily a football coach. I didn't even bother to read the text books. I think it's safe to generalize that history and geography are not strong elements of American education. I really love history, but what I know comes almost entirely from my own reading.

Under these circumstances, entertainment becomes a crucial form of cultural communications. Murdoch Mysteries really delivers that for Canada. Your pride is justified!

[snacky]

Mar 25, 2014 18:53:08 GMT mrsbrisby said:

I regret that I am having difficulty understanding the comparison between Clark Kent and Murdoch. Clark Kent is one dimensional; Murdoch is multifaceted. Clark Kent pretends to be meek; Murdoch is truly a gentle man. Clark Kent depends on his alter ego to resolve conflicts: Murdoch uses reason and logic first, but is perfectly capable of bringing whatever resource or force to bear that is required in any given situation.

William Murdoch only resembles Clark Kent in a few ways: the main way is that they are mild-mannered, polite, kind, slightly awkward guys. In both cases this is meant to depict "everyman" - a good person who tries to get along with people and who is usually unappreciated. I saw Kill Bill after I made my original comment here, but I think the observation about superman really nailed what I was trying to say: superman puts on a costume to become normal. Americans celebrate superman and despise the normal, and Canadians (seem to) appreciate Clark Kent.

[lovemondays]

I've been stewing on this for hours. I am a born and bread Canadian reading the 'discussion' between 2 Americans about the Canadian pysche. Gotta tell you...it's a bit weird. I love that MM gives us a forum to discuss broader issues. The status quo position, politically, between Canada and the US is well represented by Terrance Meyers and Allen Clegg. Clegg says "jump" and the powers that be in Ottawa say, "how high?"

From here on I'm speaking as an individual and not for my country.

As a Canadian, the real divide came on 9/11. I stood in front of my TV screaming as tower 2 came down. All I wanted was to get my kids safely home. My son's best friend, age 10, thought it was the beginning of WW3. When President Bush came on TV to speak, he thanked all his allies, by name, but neglected to thank Canada. The next day, he went on to say that, yuk yuk, "you don't need to thank your brother". So ironic because it was his brother Jeb, Governor of Florida, that sealed his first victory. You thank your brother first because they are the ones who are ALWAYS there for you. At that point, every single airplane inbound for a US destination was grounded in Canada. We scrambled every jet to protect the border. We did it because it was the right thing to do, not for recognition. That is the Canadian way. GWB's speech was the worst kind of kick in the teeth. I can only refer to him as Dubya. In my opinion he was a bully and stupid. I loved when he went off script...he always came off as an idiot. His handlers must have been going nuts.
If you ever want to take a moment to appreciate the Canadian POV, check out the following websites: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uc6t6HL7va for a US perspective on the repatriation of our fallen Canadian veterans. This was at a time when Dubya would not even sanction the release of the names of fallen troops. I have been a part of this ritual, both on the bridges and driving on the Highway of Heroes. It moved me to tears every time. The least we could do for these fallen sons and daughters was let their families know that their sacrifice was not in vain. Their child meant something to all of us. Dubya was too afraid of the sheer numbers to let this happen.

The other tribute is a play called "Come From Away" that was written to honour the passengers and hosts of the 38 planes that landed in Gander, Newfoundland that day. Go to www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNpXbrSNe0I for a sampling. The population of this small town of 9700 absorbed 6600 passengers that day. It is a beautiful tribute to the kindness and spirit of people who shared that which they had, even though is was not very much. I believe that there are a lot of Americans who are willing to embrace the spirit of this play. I wish Dubya could see this show. It is the best of Canadian and American spirit working together...and it's based on a true story!!

The writers of MM do an excellent job of keeping the cross-border issues relevant to the time; however, it is important to understand that this program didn't even exist until 7 years after 9/11. We all enjoy those moments when the future is referenced in an episode. Is it so surprising then that cross-border assumptions and stereotypes find their way into the discussion?

I know that this thread started as one thing and I have morphed it into something else. I hope I haven't taken it too far off course. The way I see it, Canadians are the mild mannered Clark Kent, who only morph into Superman when there is a need for our help. Nuff said eh?

[snacky]

Apr 7, 2014 5:11:22 GMT lovemondays said:

 I wish Dubya could see this show. It is the best of Canadian and American spirit working together...and it's based on a true story!!

The writers of MM do an excellent job of keeping the cross-border issues relevant to the time; however, it is important to understand that this program didn't even exist until 7 years after 9/11. We all enjoy those moments when the future is referenced in an episode. Is it so surprising then that cross-border assumptions and stereotypes find their way into the discussion?

I know that this thread started as one thing and I have morphed it into something else. I hope I haven't taken it too far off course. The way I see it, Canadians are the mild mannered Clark Kent, who only morph into Superman when there is a need for our help. Nuff said eh?

It is a surreal discussion, but I think it's worth bringing up just because it's surreal. The reason I'm so fascinated by the image of Canada presented by MM is that Americans - at least the ones out of sight of the border - know very little about Canada. Part of the problem is deliberate misrepresentations generated by partisan politics, and particularly the effort to make a decent healthcare system look like something bad. American politicians are committed to the idea that "socialism doesn't work" - so anywhere something "socialist" is working needs to be hidden or spun negatively somehow. For example, Europe isn't the hallowed source of Western civilization - it's the place that's always in financial trouble because of their frivolous socialist ways, and Americans had to go to their rescue during WWI and WWII.

I don't think Canada was even mentioned in my high school history books after the French and Indian War. School textbooks are a highly politicized subject in the US, too: some religious factions want to insert a Biblical narrative to replace discussion of evolution. There's a group in Texas that wants to remove Jefferson and insert a chapter on Reagan.

The issue of Dubya is complicated, too. In the view of some (including myself), he's America's Rob Ford. Others regard him as a "just folks like us" kind of President and label me as a "leftwing loony" for even questioning his competence.

The discussion here was the impression I got of Canada from watching Murdoch Mysteries (a very narrow basis for an impression). My main assumption is Canadians would find the various characters in MM likeable, and thus they present something positive about Canada. It certainly works for me: Murdoch Mysteries makes me like Canada a lot, and it makes me somewhat grumpy about the areas where Americans compare badly. Dubya isn't off track: he's a point of comparison. Would Canadians ever vote him into office?

I also like to see International events from a non-American perspective, and I think MM does a great job of alluding to the underlying tensions under the cover of historical events. I don't see why Canadians shouldn't chime into this discussion. There also seems to be some British people about - I wonder how much they learn about Canada in school or in the news? Does MM seem particularly Canadian to them? Or does it seem more American than British? Or more British than American?

[snacky]

Apr 7, 2014 6:23:16 GMT snacky said:

Apr 7, 2014 5:11:22 GMT lovemondays said:

 I wish Dubya could see this show. It is the best of Canadian and American spirit working together...and it's based on a true story!!

The writers of MM do an excellent job of keeping the cross-border issues relevant to the time; however, it is important to understand that this program didn't even exist until 7 years after 9/11. We all enjoy those moments when the future is referenced in an episode. Is it so surprising then that cross-border assumptions and stereotypes find their way into the discussion?

I know that this thread started as one thing and I have morphed it into something else. I hope I haven't taken it too far off course. The way I see it, Canadians are the mild mannered Clark Kent, who only morph into Superman when there is a need for our help. Nuff said eh?

It is a surreal discussion, but I think it's worth bringing up just because it's surreal. The reason I'm so fascinated by the image of Canada presented by MM is that Americans - at least the ones out of sight of the border - know very little about Canada. Part of the problem is deliberate misrepresentations generated by partisan politics, and particularly the effort to make a decent healthcare system look like something bad. American politicians are committed to the idea that "socialism doesn't work" - so anywhere something "socialist" is working needs to be hidden or spun negatively somehow. For example, Europe isn't the hallowed source of Western civilization - it's the place that's always in financial trouble because of their frivolous socialist ways, and Americans had to go to their rescue during WWI and WWII.

One might even say that Americans are subject to anti-Canadian propaganda.

I don't think Canada was even mentioned in my high school history books after the French and Indian War. School textbooks are a highly politicized subject in the US, too: some religious factions want to insert a Biblical narrative to replace discussion of evolution. There's a group in Texas that wants to remove Jefferson and insert a chapter on Reagan.

The issue of Dubya is complicated, too. In the view of some (including myself), he's America's Rob Ford. Others regard him as a "just folks like us" kind of President and label me as a "leftwing loony" for even questioning his competence.

The discussion here was the impression I got of Canada from watching Murdoch Mysteries (a very narrow basis for an impression). My main assumption is Canadians would find the various characters in MM likeable, and thus they present something positive about Canada. It certainly works for me: Murdoch Mysteries makes me like Canada a lot, and it makes me somewhat grumpy about the areas where Americans compare badly. Dubya isn't off track: he's a point of comparison. Would Canadians ever vote him into office?

I also like to see International events from a non-American perspective, and I think MM does a great job of alluding to the underlying tensions under the cover of historical events. I don't see why Canadians shouldn't chime into this discussion. There also seems to be some British people about - I wonder how much they learn about Canada in school or in the news? Does MM seem particularly Canadian to them? Or does it seem more American than British? Or more British than American?

[lovemondays]

Apr 7, 2014 6:23:16 GMT snacky said:

Apr 7, 2014 5:11:22 GMT lovemondays said:

 I wish Dubya could see this show. It is the best of Canadian and American spirit working together...and it's based on a true story!!

The writers of MM do an excellent job of keeping the cross-border issues relevant to the time; however, it is important to understand that this program didn't even exist until 7 years after 9/11. We all enjoy those moments when the future is referenced in an episode. Is it so surprising then that cross-border assumptions and stereotypes find their way into the discussion?

I know that this thread started as one thing and I have morphed it into something else. I hope I haven't taken it too far off course. The way I see it, Canadians are the mild mannered Clark Kent, who only morph into Superman when there is a need for our help. Nuff said eh?

It is a surreal discussion, but I think it's worth bringing up just because it's surreal. The reason I'm so fascinated by the image of Canada presented by MM is that Americans - at least the ones out of sight of the border - know very little about Canada. Part of the problem is deliberate misrepresentations generated by partisan politics, and particularly the effort to make a decent healthcare system look like something bad. American politicians are committed to the idea that "socialism doesn't work" - so anywhere something "socialist" is working needs to be hidden or spun negatively somehow. For example, Europe isn't the hallowed source of Western civilization - it's the place that's always in financial trouble because of their frivolous socialist ways, and Americans had to go to their rescue during WWI and WWII.

I don't think Canada was even mentioned in my high school history books after the French and Indian War. School textbooks are a highly politicized subject in the US, too: some religious factions want to insert a Biblical narrative to replace discussion of evolution. There's a group in Texas that wants to remove Jefferson and insert a chapter on Reagan.

The issue of Dubya is complicated, too. In the view of some (including myself), he's America's Rob Ford. Others regard him as a "just folks like us" kind of President and label me as a "leftwing loony" for even questioning his competence.

The discussion here was the impression I got of Canada from watching Murdoch Mysteries (a very narrow basis for an impression). My main assumption is Canadians would find the various characters in MM likeable, and thus they present something positive about Canada. It certainly works for me: Murdoch Mysteries makes me like Canada a lot, and it makes me somewhat grumpy about the areas where Americans compare badly. Dubya isn't off track: he's a point of comparison. Would Canadians ever vote him into office?

I also like to see International events from a non-American perspective, and I think MM does a great job of alluding to the underlying tensions under the cover of historical events. I don't see why Canadians shouldn't chime into this discussion. There also seems to be some British people about - I wonder how much they learn about Canada in school or in the news? Does MM seem particularly Canadian to them? Or does it seem more American than British? Or more British than American?

[lovemondays]

You were up pretty late last night Snacky! I think your point about the reality that Americans are not taught anything about Canada is something that we, as Canadians, are very aware of. And I think it's a sore point...why the heck not learn anything about your neighbour, your trading partner and the people with whom you share the longest border in the world? As eus said, we are so exposed to American culture in media and history that we can't help learning about you.

I don't know for sure, but I expect that students in the UK learn about Canada as part of their study of the British Commonwealth. We are still far more British than American in all things but that is shifting.

I think MM does a wonderful job portraying the overall value system that is "Canadian". Like Murdoch, we care deeply about the truth and doing the right thing even when it's difficult. Crabtree's character highlights our willingness to laugh at ourselves and to be open to the interesting knowledge that other cultures can bring us. (Kung Fu Crabtree was an excellent example of this, both with the food and the action!)

MM has done a good job with historical figures too. Prince Albert's shenanigans, Winston Churchill's pompousness and exploits in India, and Emma Goldman's stance on workers rights to name a few. Adding in the civilization-changing inventors like Tessla, Bell, Edison and Ford give us a chance to explore the struggles involved in adapting to electricity, phones and automobiles. I think the struggles would have been identical on both sides of the border. I have to say though, my favourites are James Pendrick's airplane and car.

I think MM has a very balanced Canadian perspective. The characters are incredibly likeable, well developed and consistent. The show also gives a nod to our forward thinking...female doctors who are very capable and respected, yet each struggled to be accepted into medical school. We also need the odd slap upside the head such as the subway. Toronto is still way behind on that one 112 years later!

P.S. Just between you and me Snacky, if Dubya ever got elected here, I would be moving to the Bahamas!

[mrsbrisby]

I would like to specifically address lovemondays comments regarding 9/11.  I remember seeing a report on the preparations the people of Gander made to receive all of those passengers.  The report emphasized how relatively small the town is and how they had done such marvelous job, something like a small miracle.  At the end, the reporter said something to the effect that all the cots had sheets and blankets, and even though they were not all new and crisp , every cot was ready complete with sheet and blanket that were freshly laundered.

That brought tears to my eyes.  It was the quiet dignity the people of Gander went about providing for those in need.  I do hope that those who were the direct recipients of this communal act of kindness appreciate the gift they received.

As an American, I appreciated it and was grateful we have such a wonderful neighbor.

As for Americans not knowing much about Canadians, you are absolutely right.  The reason is quite simple, our educational system is a disgrace, and like snacky, just about all I learned about Canada ended with the Revolutionary War.  MM has sent me often inspired me to google a variety of topics, and each time I do, I regret how little we are taught about other countries, Canada included. 

As you may be aware one of the political footballs being tossed around these days is the issue of "illegal immigration" which is, sadly, code for Mexicans.  Most Americans do not know that Spain once laid claim to almost 2/3 of what is now the US.  After the Louisiana Purchase (1803) that was reduced to about one third.  New Spain and later Mexico controlled what is now Texas, Oklahoma, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, California and Oregon,  until the mid 19th century, and in some cases much longer.  The point is, these lands were under the control of Spain or Mexico for over 200 years and the people in those territories spoke Spanish.  These facts have been conveniently removed from the national consciousness for undoubtedly political reasons.

On the whole, we are taught very little about the world we live in and let alone our closest neighbors.  This state of affairs is not only sad, it is ultimately, bad policy.

GWB is a subject I could go on about for hours.  The fact that I believe he and his Iraq War cronies should be hauled before the Hague, might give you a hint about my opinion of him. 

While this discussions is surreal, it is disheartening for me.  I think Canada is a cool place and Canadians are cool people.  It's not that you don't have your problems like any other country, it's that you deal with them in an adult and civil manner.  You're a class act, plain and simple.