|
|
Post by fan2tvshows on Jul 13, 2014 17:10:56 GMT
I watched the episode again last night and Julia said they could still be married "legally" (if she got a divorce) at which point William said "but not in the eyes of God". I took that to mean Julia was referring to a civil ceremony and William's reference was to being married in a church (my research did bring up the fact that Catholics could not be married outside as in a garden, etc.) but I cold be wrong, I'm sure no expert in Roman Catholic rulings in Toronto in 1904! I think it's not an issue/a problem about the wedding place, in a church or not. At this time, marriage is a holy sacrement -only death could end it- and divorce is an administrative/legal procedure -not so simple however- which is not recognized by the Church. (In fact, it's true in all religion not only in the Catholicism. Not to mention that divorce was also not accepted by the society). William was disappointed that she didn't accept the annulment; annulment meant that Julia has never been married in her life. And now he knew that he could not marry a divorced woman -it's forbidden by the Church- so that's why he said "but not in the eyes of God". |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jul 13, 2014 17:22:18 GMT
At this time, marriage is a holy sacrement -only death could end it- and divorce is an administrative/legal procedure -not so simple however- which is not recognized by the Church. (In fact, it's true in all religion not only in the Catholicism. Not to mention that divorce was also not accepted by the society). The issue now is Julia is a Protestant and William is a Catholic. According to our research, they can't get married in a Catholic church without special dispensation, and Julia would need to agree to bring the children up as Catholics. I forgot what the deal was with Protestant churches, but I think either they would refuse to do the marriage or they would insist that William convert. Not happening. This is why I've been suggesting that they go for traveling Unitarian minister. Unitarians are Protestant, but very liberal. (At least they are today). I think one of their ministers would agree to do a cross-religion religion marriage in the name of a Greater Love, as it were. I think a church is out of the question if we want to be historically accurate. They might get away with commandeering the chapel of a college, hospital, or club. But an outdoor wedding would be prettier. It might even be nicer in an age before decent electrical lighting. They could be married outside a church with a big stained glass window with a cross in the background. From the spoiler pics, though, I think the writers are just going to hope no one noticed that Julia is a Protestant and William is a Catholic. After premising the show on the big deal that William is a Catholic in a Protestant town. |
|
|
|
Post by carco on Jul 13, 2014 18:16:52 GMT
Also, I don't think you and Tokyobelle are on the same OTP trip (and it's completely OK that you're not). In Tokyobelle's universe, William remains a virgin, and the tie is a symbol of his chastity, and all that pent up frustration is finally going to get released on his wedding night.  I think in your universe, William is not necessarily a virgin, but Julia does have to "manage" him a bit to get his compartmentalized mind out of "case" mode and into the "you're with me now" mode. Do I have that right? I don't know what to believe. I don't think that William is a virgin, but I'm starting to wonder if they've done the deed with one another. I still think someone needs to write William at the logging camp fic. I'm not intrigued at all at the thought of virgin!William on his wedding night being instructed by Julia on how to please her. I know what you mean tokyobelle....I'm flip-flopping all over the place the more I try to think it through. Yikes, I've turned into William!! I'm over-thinking everything  |
|
|
|
Post by carco on Jul 13, 2014 18:44:38 GMT
At this time, marriage is a holy sacrement -only death could end it- and divorce is an administrative/legal procedure -not so simple however- which is not recognized by the Church. (In fact, it's true in all religion not only in the Catholicism. Not to mention that divorce was also not accepted by the society). I think a church is out of the question if we want to be historically accurate. They might get away with commandeering the chapel of a college, hospital, or club. But an outdoor wedding would be prettier. It might even be nicer in an age before decent electrical lighting. They could be married outside a church with a big stained glass window with a cross in the background. From the spoiler pics, though, I think the writers are just going to hope no one noticed that Julia is a Protestant and William is a Catholic. After premising the show on the big deal that William is a Catholic in a Protestant town. I doubt very much the writers will ignore the issue, it would be unlike them to do so . William's religion is a huge part of who he is and as you have mentioned it's a key to William's life in Toronto. I believe there will be a way for them to reach a satisfactory compromise. In S6 William, in so many words, told Julia that if he had to choose between his God and his love for her, he'd chose love. While that would be a huge sacrifice for him and hopefully not entirely necessary, he's put it out there that it's a choice he is willing to make. Hopefully, he will only have to make some concessions. Surely this scenario was playing out all through the country. |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jul 13, 2014 18:51:27 GMT
Yikes, I've turned into William!! I'm over-thinking everything LOL! And this is totally why I think Murdoch Mysteries, as cute and funny as it seems, is a trojan horse for a Greek tragedy.   Credit: CosmicCalvalcade |
|
|
|
Post by fan2tvshows on Jul 13, 2014 19:03:30 GMT
At this time, marriage is a holy sacrement -only death could end it- and divorce is an administrative/legal procedure -not so simple however- which is not recognized by the Church. (In fact, it's true in all religion not only in the Catholicism. Not to mention that divorce was also not accepted by the society). The issue now is Julia is a Protestant and William is a Catholic. According to our research, they can't get married in a Catholic church without special dispensation, and Julia would need to agree to bring the children up as Catholics. I forgot what the deal was with Protestant churches, but I think either they would refuse to do the marriage or they would insist that William convert. Not happening. This is why I've been suggesting that they go for traveling Unitarian minister. Unitarians are Protestant, but very liberal. (At least they are today). I think one of their ministers would agree to do a cross-religion religion marriage in the name of a Greater Love, as it were. I think a church is out of the question if we want to be historically accurate. They might get away with commandeering the chapel of a college, hospital, or club. But an outdoor wedding would be prettier. It might even be nicer in an age before decent electrical lighting. They could be married outside a church with a big stained glass window with a cross in the background. From the spoiler pics, though, I think the writers are just going to hope no one noticed that Julia is a Protestant and William is a Catholic. After premising the show on the big deal that William is a Catholic in a Protestant town. I didn't notice that William and Julia could have an issue because of the religion. Julia is more a protestant by birth than a practicing Protestant. I thought she was a very mordern woman and when she became a doctor, she also became an atheist. She often had an argument with William's Catholic principles. So I think the writers find a compromise to remain historically accurate. And if it's not the case, I don't really care. |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jul 13, 2014 19:03:40 GMT
In S6 William, in so many words, told Julia that if he had to choose between his God and his love for her, he'd chose love. While that would be a huge sacrifice for him and hopefully not entirely necessary, he's put it out there that it's a choice he is willing to make. Hopefully, he will only have to make some concessions. Surely this scenario was playing out all through the country. I doubt Julia would force him to choose, if it came to that. She might have an initial outburst, but after she stepped back and got some perspective on the matter, she would see William's Catholicism as part of who he is, just like his "principles".  Credit: 22OntarioStreetDo you think Bill Brioux had inside knowledge when he mentioned the "dream sequence"? Maybe Julia fantasizes about a Church wedding, but then has to deal with a shotgun wedding. But if that's the case, why the substitute-looking bride?  |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jul 13, 2014 19:20:18 GMT
Julia is more a protestant by birth than a practicing Protestant. I thought she was a very mordern woman and when she became a doctor, she also became an atheist. She often had an argument with William's Catholic principles. I n this case, Julia wouldn't be the obstacle. The priests/ministers involved wouldn't marry them and wouldn't let them have use of the church for the wedding unless some form of religious compromise was involved.
During this period, religion was just beginning to separate from rule of the State, and Protestantism was still considered heresy by the Catholic church. Meanwhile, Protestants has been responsible for several Catholic massacres, themselves. The world was not yet "secular", and relations between the religions were very difficult. It was not a simple thing for a Protestant and a Catholic to get married, even if neither were going to church regularly. Everyone was presumed to belong to a "confession" as a matter of culture. Almost as a matter of race.
I'm still rooting for the Unitarian minister to come to the rescue! Tally ho!
|
|
|
|
Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 13, 2014 19:34:08 GMT
My thesis is being reviewed. I'm sure there will be more edits.  You can write the logging camp fic! Or, maybe we can make CosmicCalvacade?  And you can write companion fics where William discovers his Barbarian and another where he's at the mercy of Julia. I think CosmicCalvalcade writes solely for fanfic.net...? Sorry to say my crackfic will probably never leave my imagination: I only get up the energy to make the occasional re-captioned image. XD But I'm reallllllllllllllllllllllllllly thinking about it. And thinking about it. Tie!Dominatrix Julia is winning. Credit: 22OntarioStreetI really think you need to get your feet wet. Start small, a Drabble perhaps? |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jul 13, 2014 19:42:07 GMT
I really think you need to get your feet wet. Start small, a Drabble perhaps?  I need to start by getting a source of good screencaps again.  |
|
|
|
Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 13, 2014 19:44:53 GMT
I don't know what to believe. I don't think that William is a virgin, but I'm starting to wonder if they've done the deed with one another. I still think someone needs to write William at the logging camp fic. I'm not intrigued at all at the thought of virgin!William on his wedding night being instructed by Julia on how to please her. I know what you mean tokyobelle....I'm flip-flopping all over the place the more I try to think it through. Yikes, I've turned into William!! I'm over-thinking everything While I like my tie theory, I don't know how solid it is. It's really bothering me why Julia playing with william's tie gets him all upset. I can't make videos...anyone wanna make a tie montage? I don't know that I have a single theory that I'm married to. At the end of the day,I'm an English major who loves analyzing and discussing meaning. Have theory, will discuss. But any English major will tell you, a tie is a classic phallic symbol. How can you pass that up? |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jul 13, 2014 19:51:37 GMT
While I like my tie theory, I don't know how solid it is. It's really bothering me why Julia playing with william's tie gets him all upset. I can't make videos...anyone wanna make a tie montage? I'm soliciting tie/lapel pics and gifs right now, without much luck. Unfortunately my main source of screencaps is down, and I'm not finding what I want easily on Tumblr. For instance, I know there is some lapel twiddling in the reunion scene of The Murdoch Identity, but I can't seem to find a gif set that focuses on that specific point. Anyway, when I do see "tie play of interest" I save it, and if I'm really on top of things I book mark it with appropriate labeling for credits. Thus someday the materials may be gathered for a tie and lapel themed vid, or at least some fun re-caps. Amen. Ps. I'm always happy to share, but I don't have anything yet. Still looking. |
|
|
|
Post by carco on Jul 14, 2014 18:15:01 GMT
While I like my tie theory, I don't know how solid it is. It's really bothering me why Julia playing with william's tie gets him all upset. I can't make videos...anyone wanna make a tie montage? I'm soliciting tie/lapel pics and gifs right now, without much luck. Unfortunately my main source of screencaps is down, and I'm not finding what I want easily on Tumblr. For instance, I know there is some lapel twiddling in the reunion scene of The Murdoch Identity, but I can't seem to find a gif set that focuses on that specific point. Anyway, when I do see "tie play of interest" I save it, and if I'm really on top of things I book mark it with appropriate labeling for credits. Thus someday the materials may be gathered for a tie and lapel themed vid, or at least some fun re-caps. Amen. Ps. I'm always happy to share, but I don't have anything yet. Still looking. This is adding to posts by each of you, re: ties. I did a little research and found this.. currently, in the language of neckware, the loosened tie eases the more guarded public role and marks a new openness to private pleasures. It's the male equivalent of slipping into something more comfortable. The relaxation connoted by the loosened tie signals a turning away from the propriety of the workplace. If I recall correctly, when Julia attempted to loosen William's tie in the Zombie episode, he was still working or had just solved the case. In William's mind, he would find Julia's gesture intimate and therefore inappropriate at that moment given he was working/ on duty. ( I seem to remember that they were in a public area, too - albeit it was night time. Hey it's William, what can I say?). In Murdoch in Ragtime, there is the scene where they are outside the theatre, in public and Julia is fiddling with his bow-tie while telling him she found the entertainment sensual. It's an intimate conversation as are Julia's actions. But he does not try to stop her from preening him. (Initially he doesn't react at all because William's head was still operating out of his "mystery solving compartment" of his brain. At least that compartment recognizes the difference between actually being "on duty" and just thinking about the case.) I think he only stopped her from loosening his tie at that particular time due to the propriety "thing" he has when he is working. Think, too of his comments to George about feeling the heat in all his layers of clothes and "propriety" in the Loch Ness Murdoch episode. |
|
|
|
Post by snacky on Jul 15, 2014 1:13:37 GMT
re: ties. I did a little research and found this.. currently, in the language of neckware, the loosened tie eases the more guarded public role and marks a new openness to private pleasures. It's the male equivalent of slipping into something more comfortable. The relaxation connoted by the loosened tie signals a turning away from the propriety of the workplace. I love that you researched tie loosening, hahahha. I have to rewatch the Zombie episode. William certainly had no problem with Julia fiddling with his tie/lapels/whatever when he returned in The Murdoch Identity (Not to mention kissing in public). He wants to be married, so he shouldn't object to Julia acting like they are already married, even in public areas. Maybe he was just feeling bossed around and "managed" in public? My new episode of obsession is The Kissing Bandit because William's manhood gets trampled on so many ways in that episode that I think it's a good explanatory key to his character and other things that happen to him. Anyway, while William respects Julia's modern female empowerment, she needs to respect the terms of his self-image, too. Hopefully that made sense. |
|
|
|
Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 15, 2014 6:56:43 GMT
At this point I really couldn't care less what she's wearing. I just want this thing to finally happen! As much as I would love a fabulous frock, I'll concur. I love my angst, but, enough is enough. |
|
You can write the logging camp fic! Or, maybe we can make CosmicCalvacade? 
