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Post by snacky on Jul 12, 2014 7:44:07 GMT
Plus, I think there's propriety behind his desire not to put out before marriage as well. I don't think he's deliberately using it as bait. I don't think either is actively trying to hurt the other, it's just proof positive that the game has hone on too long and they need to married yesterday. I guess it's the word "game" that's bothering me. Julia, at least, does seem to be playing a game in Season 7. I'm not sure about William. If he is, it's: I'm going to get you to marry me this time. Brackenreid has described William and Julia as "dancing" with each other before. There just seems something so deliberative and strategic about this: I don't like it. I want to think that both William and Julia know they love each other, and that they will somehow communicate with each other that they are ready to get married, and at most there will be a little gentle teasing. I hate to think of either William or Julia playing manipulative mind games with each other, though.  |
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Post by snacky on Jul 12, 2014 7:45:21 GMT
My thesis is off with my Prof for feedback right now, thank you very much.  I'm on vacation, plus Mr. Tokyobelle helps out with the bills. If Mr. Tokyobelle saw this, he'd run out and buy a tie.  Credit: 22OntarioStreet |
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Post by snacky on Jul 12, 2014 8:18:20 GMT
I hadn't thought about William not telling Julia he still loved her and to call off the wedding because he promised Darcy. Poor boy, he is a man of his word, and that's something he would do.  One more thought on this episode and why William made this stupid promise to Darcy. I think William felt totally emasculated during this episode. Ruby was calling him "feeble and dimwitted" for not winning Julia. The case was indirectly showing an outsider "arouse the passions" of a woman, and win her from the staid accountant who "didn't make grand gestures" but loved her. Then Darcy came in and gave William the chance to at least be a classic Man of his Word. That's a Man about something at least. He also refers to Darcy as "winning" Julia's love (implying that he himself is the "loser"). When Brackenreid tries to gauge what William is feeling, it is general ineffectualness: "nothing to be done". Anyway, I think in terms of emasculation, The Kissing Bandit is William's low point for the entire series, and from there he needs to get his Groove back.  Credit: 22OntarioStreet |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 12, 2014 9:12:30 GMT
Perhaps so. I don't think she always set out to deliberately torment him (they were both sexually repressed Victorians), and both had a dark side just waiting to be explored I think. i think she wanted to bait him, but not necessarily break him. Hmm this would almost make an interesting Psychiatry themed episode. Did you ever see the X-Files episode where Scully gets the tattoo? Sometimes highly repressed people are compelled to look into dark mirrors. I agree Julia didn't intend to break William, but she pushed him kind of close. And then she rejected his proposal. Even if she had no way of knowing that would happen, she did sort of deliberately push him into a pretty fragile, anxious state. I think his reaction should have been something more than over-focus on fixing bicycles. No, never watched XFiles. Sorry. But I agree-repression leads to some pretty dark places. Yeah, I agree that he should have had a different reaction to a stunning rejection of his proposal. He had no idea that was coming,especially after she may have even encouraged it. |
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Post by snacky on Jul 12, 2014 9:22:19 GMT
Hmm this would almost make an interesting Psychiatry themed episode. Did you ever see the X-Files episode where Scully gets the tattoo? Sometimes highly repressed people are compelled to look into dark mirrors. I agree Julia didn't intend to break William, but she pushed him kind of close. And then she rejected his proposal. Even if she had no way of knowing that would happen, she did sort of deliberately push him into a pretty fragile, anxious state. I think his reaction should have been something more than over-focus on fixing bicycles. No, never watched XFiles. Sorry. But I agree-repression leads to some pretty dark places. Yeah, I agree that he should have had a different reaction to a stunning rejection of his proposal. He had no idea that was coming,especially after she may have even encouraged it. hmm, methinks your fandom is incomplete. Scully gets the ouroboro tattoo in "Never Again", and that episode is full of "dark places"! haha, maybe William should have gone down to the docks and gotten a tattoo after Julia rejected his proposal! I was just watching Staircase to Heaven again, and there is a great bit in the middle where Brackenreid and George critique William (and in the end they even have a laugh at his expense). Brackenreid agree's with your analysis, lol: William needs to loosen up. btw, in that episode Brackenreid also verified that he hired William "for his keen mind": at some point there was some discussion here about whether Brackenreid hired or inherited William. |
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Post by carco on Jul 12, 2014 20:47:12 GMT
The "bride on the steps" filming in Toronto last week was hinted at being a "dream seqence" so probably not the J/W wedding (which appears to have been shot in Cambridge this week. I'm guessing that was not the real thing - or at least not the W& J real thing. By the way there's a new pic on Tumblr (try DrowningInChoc) a front view of Julia in the background...white dress, high neck, long sleeves..... IMO, the come hither look with Anna was human William responding with normal male responses. He lost his memory so he also lost all William's usual uptight inhibitions and restraint. He was just being a guy. She's really saying to him "Yes, I'm a woman in love and I can (be quite tenacious)." They'd already had several kisses in the episode so both are feeling a little "frisky" and William's look seems to be a kind of "Julia, you need to stop, you're killing me here." That's the way I read it...just my wishful thinking maybe but it works for me! I should add that Julia's look as he came towards her indicated she knew exactly what she was doing. She's messing with his head and enjoying every minute of it. If this is a dream sequence - whose dream is it? It's possible that all the weddings in that episode are dream sequences of some sort with various things going wrong. D: That dress still looks like Anne of Green Gables hand-me-down to me. >.< I like you're interpretation of the "tenacious scene" ("you're killing me here" - hahahaha  ), but I don't understand why Julia would be such a tease to the poor guy. Why is she messing with William's head? Is this the way to get him to propose, or does she just enjoy what she's doing to him? Who knows? About the dream I mean. Bill Brioux tweeted the comment (he's a TV columnist out of Toronto) and basically asked what was up with shooting a "dream sequence" at a downtown Toronto landmark. Of course, there was no further explanation tweeted by anyone but given the source, there might be an ounce of truth in it....or not  Hahhhhaaaaha! Laura Ingalls, Anne of Green Gables.... so you're not enamoured with the dress. That's ok, with any luck she won't have it on for too long anyway I meant to infer that Julia is teasing him in a fun way, by coyly redirecting the conversation to remind him that she is also a woman in love. She does it often in S8. My favourite...on the beach, when he had changed into his bathing costume and was going on and on about the stars and all that. She rolled her eyes, grabbed his hand and pulled him into the water. Julia realizes and accepts that William is slower than she is at switching subjects, changing mood, etc. What she has also come to realize is that once he realizes they are not talking about work anymore, or the alignment of the stars, etc. he's more than willing to take back the lead from her.  |
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Post by carco on Jul 12, 2014 21:14:48 GMT
I like you're interpretation of the "tenacious scene" ("you're killing me here" - hahahaha ), but I don't understand why Julia would be such a tease to the poor guy. Why is she messing with William's head? Is this the way to get him to propose, or does she just enjoy what she's doing to him? I just rewatched the episode and I agree with Carco. That look def says "you're killing me here" and he's totally approaching her as prey. But, this also goes with your earlier theory about needing to be invited or prompted. I don't think she's trying to mess with his head to hurt him, I think she's spurring him into action. However, this is not completely to be blamed on William. Julia has broken his heart and given their social differences, he's a bit insecure when it comes to her. Also, how many times has the poor boy proposed to her before she finally agreed? Julia certainly has been tenacious-she wants sexytime and she's getting tired of waiting-so she baits him into action-he won't assert himself if she asks him straight out-it's not proper-but he falls into her snares time and time again. It's not against his will-he happily lets her play him and they're both happy. It's the game they play-albeit an exhausting one. It's stuff like this that leads me to think that nothing physical has happened between them. I know that there's evidence that says that there has been action, but plenty exists that counteract it. Including that tie! That tie is totally symbolic, and a damn fine piece of evidence that there's been no hanky panty. It's his chastity belt of sorts. When that tie finally does come off, it's almost as if William's propriety becomes undone, and the buttoned-up detective becomes undone. What if Julia knows that tie is what holds respectable William together and without it, he's the predator to her prey? Julia knows it too-which is why she's desperate to unleash the beast within so to speak. I should read all the posts before I jump in and respond to one. I just posted a reply to snacky but now I have read yours tokyobele and realize I seemed to have touched on this conversation point too. I saw it as Julia kind of mentally nudging him when it's time to forget about the latest case he's working on and get the conversation on a more personal level. Nudging him, baiting him, re-directing his mind's focus. We're basically saying the same thing, I think, although I think of Julia "baiting him" as being more aggressive on her part. We both seem to agree that William is always willing prey! Ugh, always willing EXCEPT for the tie debacle. He's had his tied off (and his shirt) around her several times before and it's never bothered him. She's also played with his tie/bow tie lots of times and it hasn't bothered him (except I don't think it's ever happened at work before). Anyway, I don't know for sure what that moment was supposed to tell us. Yannick directed that episode, so it upsets me that I can't exactly figure out what it signified. He's played the character for years so he must had a clear reason for wanting William to react that way but many of us looking at the scene from a woman's perspective watched it and thought "What the h--- just happened there?" So I decided to take my lead from Julia---she just shook her head, smiled and let it pass. Maybe it was nothing more than William being William. |
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Post by snacky on Jul 12, 2014 21:25:16 GMT
Who knows? About the dream I mean. Bill Brioux tweeted the comment (he's a TV columnist out of Toronto) and basically asked what was up with shooting a "dream sequence" at a downtown Toronto landmark. Of course, there was no further explanation tweeted by anyone but given the source, there might be an ounce of truth in it....or not Hahhhhaaaaha! Laura Ingalls, Anne of Green Gables.... so you're not enamoured with the dress. That's ok, with any luck she won't have it on for too long anyway I meant to infer that Julia is teasing him in a fun way, by coyly redirecting the conversation to remind him that she is also a woman in love. She does it often in S8. My favourite...on the beach, when he had changed into his bathing costume and was going on and on about the stars and all that. She rolled her eyes, grabbed his hand and pulled him into the water. Julia realizes and accepts that William is slower than she is at switching subjects, changing mood, etc. What she has also come to realize is that once he realizes they are not talking about work anymore, or the alignment of the stars, etc. he's more than willing to take back the lead from her. I wonder if Brioux was trolling? LOL about the length of time Julia is going to be wearing that dress. Sorry to be obsessing over it. I guess after waiting so long, I want Julia to have a perfect marriage. And Helene Joy can pull off such a statuesque pre-raphaelite look! Even characters in the show refer to her as "willowy"! I was hoping the MM costume design team would make the most of this and the upcoming Edwardian fashion trends. You may have intended to portray Julia as teasing William in a fun way, but last night Tokyobelle and I incorporated this into the whole "meaning of the tie" discussion, and in that universe (where William is "saving himself for marriage"), it does seem like Julia was teasing William to the very brink, and testing his resolve about marriage. This would make her refusal of his proposal (even though she had no control over it) even more cruel, and I'm surprised William's reaction was limited to over-focus on upgrading bicycles. He could have been in nervous breakdown territory. This is an interesting turn of the tables from Season 3, when Julia wanted to get married, but William was satisfied with the status quo. Now Julia has been married, and she no longer needs to register that "marital status" with the world: she wants to be married to William, but she certainly doesn't have to be to get it on with him. Meanwhile William is trying to hold out for marriage, but seems to think that failure to "arouse Julia's passions" (The Kissing Bandit) played a role in losing her before: so basically he has to accept her teasing and tease her back until they get hitched. How exhausting!  |
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Post by snacky on Jul 12, 2014 21:31:16 GMT
I should read all the posts before I jump in and respond to one. I saw it as Julia kind of mentally nudging him when it's time to forget about the latest case he's working on and get the conversation on a more personal level. Nudging him, baiting him, re-directing his mind's focus. We're basically saying the same thing, I think, although I think of Julia "baiting him" as being more aggressive on her part. We both seem to agree that William is always willing prey! Ugh, always willing EXCEPT for the tie debacle. He's had his tied off (and his shirt) around her several times before and it's never bothered him. She's also played with his tie/bow tie lots of times and it hasn't bothered him (except I don't think it's ever happened at work before). Anyway, I don't know for sure what that moment was supposed to tell us. Yannick directed that episode, so it upsets me that I can't exactly figure out what it signified. He's played the character for years so he must had a clear reason for wanting William to react that way but many of us looking at the scene from a woman's perspective watched it and thought "What the h--- just happened there?" So I decided to take my lead from Julia---she just shook her head, smiled and let it pass. Maybe it was nothing more than William being William. Hahaha, don't even try to respond to stuff in order. There are a lot of non-linear conversations happening here now.  Also, I don't think you and Tokyobelle are on the same OTP trip (and it's completely OK that you're not). In Tokyobelle's universe, William remains a virgin, and the tie is a symbol of his chastity, and all that pent up frustration is finally going to get released on his wedding night. I think in your universe, William is not necessarily a virgin, but Julia does have to "manage" him a bit to get his compartmentalized mind out of "case" mode and into the "you're with me now" mode. Do I have that right? |
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Post by carco on Jul 12, 2014 22:29:20 GMT
I should read all the posts before I jump in and respond to one. I saw it as Julia kind of mentally nudging him when it's time to forget about the latest case he's working on and get the conversation on a more personal level. Nudging him, baiting him, re-directing his mind's focus. We're basically saying the same thing, I think, although I think of Julia "baiting him" as being more aggressive on her part. We both seem to agree that William is always willing prey! Ugh, always willing EXCEPT for the tie debacle. He's had his tied off (and his shirt) around her several times before and it's never bothered him. She's also played with his tie/bow tie lots of times and it hasn't bothered him (except I don't think it's ever happened at work before). Anyway, I don't know for sure what that moment was supposed to tell us. Yannick directed that episode, so it upsets me that I can't exactly figure out what it signified. He's played the character for years so he must had a clear reason for wanting William to react that way but many of us looking at the scene from a woman's perspective watched it and thought "What the h--- just happened there?" So I decided to take my lead from Julia---she just shook her head, smiled and let it pass. Maybe it was nothing more than William being William. Hahaha, don't even try to respond to stuff in order. There are a lot of non-linear conversations happening here now. Also, I don't think you and Tokyobelle are on the same OTP trip (and it's completely OK that you're not). In Tokyobelle's universe, William remains a virgin, and the tie is a symbol of his chastity, and all that pent up frustration is finally going to get released on his wedding night. I think in your universe, William is not necessarily a virgin, but Julia does have to "manage" him a bit to get his compartmentalized mind out of "case" mode and into the "you're with me now" mode. Do I have that right? You do have my universe right....AND I can see all the points to support the other side of the picture, too. I think William And Anna were likely together (when Julia was married) and possibly experiences from years back so no, I don't think he's a virgin. (But I'm not a William/Anna fan). I don't believe he and Julia have been together yet. Yes, I feel Julia gently 'manages' him but not sure she even knows she's doing it. I don't look at it as games she's playing. I think it's something we would do naturally when we love someone. She's known him for years, she knows what she's dealing with. In S7 they were experiencing (again) being in love when it was not a forbidden love. She had a slow start after the trial, she had some real issues to deal with. He waited for her to work through that. Gillies was confirmed dead. That should have marked a "Gentlemen, start your engines..." moment for them but William was inexplicably content to trundle along being a man in love and "courting" Julia. Was he was purposely holding back? By that point in time, he knows why she said no to him so I can't believe it's fear of being turned down again. I wanted to grab his shoulders and shake him last season. Hhhmmmmm....As I write this I realize maybe he WAS forcing her hand, making her work for a proposal, he knows he has to be the one who asks for her hand. Ok, I'm not liking that idea at all. That's just childish and neither of them are childish by nature. I'm going to stop writing now because I seem to be talking myself out of one pov and taking on another. Arrrgggghhhhh  |
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Post by snacky on Jul 12, 2014 23:03:53 GMT
I think William And Anna were likely together (when Julia was married) and possibly experiences from years back so no, I don't think he's a virgin. (But I'm not a William/Anna fan). I don't believe he and Julia have been together yet. Yes, I feel Julia gently 'manages' him but not sure she even knows she's doing it. I don't look at it as games she's playing. I think it's something we would do naturally when we love someone. She's known him for years, she knows what she's dealing with. In S7 they were experiencing (again) being in love when it was not a forbidden love. She had a slow start after the trial, she had some real issues to deal with. He waited for her to work through that. Gillies was confirmed dead. That should have marked a "Gentlemen, start your engines..." moment for them but William was inexplicably content to trundle along being a man in love and "courting" Julia. Was he was purposely holding back? By that point in time, he knows why she said no to him so I can't believe it's fear of being turned down again. I wanted to grab his shoulders and shake him last season. Hhhmmmmm....As I write this I realize maybe he WAS forcing her hand, making her work for a proposal, he knows he has to be the one who asks for her hand. Ok, I'm not liking that idea at all. That's just childish and neither of them are childish by nature. I'm going to stop writing now because I seem to be talking myself out of one pov and taking on another. Arrrgggghhhhh At least you were able to pick a POV in the first place! There are so many tasty ones, that I can't chose at all.  Regarding William making Julia work for the proposal...I do think he can be a bit immature at times. But I don't think he'd place his relationship with Julia at risk after everything they've been through. There's nothing he wants more than to nail this thing down (pun fully intended). And if they haven't indulged in any carnal relations yet, the sooner the better! |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 13, 2014 3:31:09 GMT
I should read all the posts before I jump in and respond to one. I saw it as Julia kind of mentally nudging him when it's time to forget about the latest case he's working on and get the conversation on a more personal level. Nudging him, baiting him, re-directing his mind's focus. We're basically saying the same thing, I think, although I think of Julia "baiting him" as being more aggressive on her part. We both seem to agree that William is always willing prey! Ugh, always willing EXCEPT for the tie debacle. He's had his tied off (and his shirt) around her several times before and it's never bothered him. She's also played with his tie/bow tie lots of times and it hasn't bothered him (except I don't think it's ever happened at work before). Anyway, I don't know for sure what that moment was supposed to tell us. Yannick directed that episode, so it upsets me that I can't exactly figure out what it signified. He's played the character for years so he must had a clear reason for wanting William to react that way but many of us looking at the scene from a woman's perspective watched it and thought "What the h--- just happened there?" So I decided to take my lead from Julia---she just shook her head, smiled and let it pass. Maybe it was nothing more than William being William. Also, I don't think you and Tokyobelle are on the same OTP trip (and it's completely OK that you're not). In Tokyobelle's universe, William remains a virgin, and the tie is a symbol of his chastity, and all that pent up frustration is finally going to get released on his wedding night. I think in your universe, William is not necessarily a virgin, but Julia does have to "manage" him a bit to get his compartmentalized mind out of "case" mode and into the "you're with me now" mode. Do I have that right? I don't know what to believe. I don't think that William is a virgin, but I'm starting to wonder if they've done the deed with one another. I still think someone needs to write William at the logging camp fic. I'm not intrigued at all at the thought of virgin!William on his wedding night being instructed by Julia on how to please her. |
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Post by snacky on Jul 13, 2014 3:47:34 GMT
I don't know what to believe. I don't think that William is a virgin, but I'm starting to wonder if they've done the deed with one another. I still think someone needs to write William at the logging camp fic. I'm not intrigued at all at the thought of virgin!William on his wedding night being instructed by Julia on how to please her. Didn't someone you just say their thesis was turned in and they had plenty of time while Mr. Tokyobelle wasn't looking? Though really this is not the place to post anything too kinky. I'm emoing dwelling on the thought that William was quite the ladies man (and a drinker) when he was in the logger's camp: but then he became "boring" when he made the commitment to join the middle class, gave up drinking, and became dopamine-deficient overly focused on minutia. Then he reached rock bottom of emasculation in The Kissing Bandit, with Ruby rubbing it in. Though William needs to rediscover his inner Barbarian, I'd also like to see him on the receiving end of the tie bondage...can you imagine his face...?
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Post by Fallenbelle on Jul 13, 2014 4:13:58 GMT
I don't know what to believe. I don't think that William is a virgin, but I'm starting to wonder if they've done the deed with one another. I still think someone needs to write William at the logging camp fic. I'm not intrigued at all at the thought of virgin!William on his wedding night being instructed by Julia on how to please her. Didn't someone you just say their thesis was turned in and they had plenty of time while Mr. Tokyobelle wasn't looking? Though really this is not the place to post anything too kinky. I'm emoing dwelling on the thought that William was quite the ladies man (and a drinker) when he was in the logger's camp: but then he became "boring" when he made the commitment to join the middle class, gave up drinking, and became dopamine-deficient overly focused on minutia. Then he reached rock bottom of emasculation in The Kissing Bandit, with Ruby rubbing it in. Though William needs to rediscover his inner Barbarian, I'd also like to see him on the receiving end of the tie bondage...can you imagine his face...?
My thesis is being reviewed. I'm sure there will be more edits. You can write the logging camp fic! Or, maybe we can make CosmicCalvacade?  And you can write companion fics where William discovers his Barbarian and another where he's at the mercy of Julia. |
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Post by snacky on Jul 13, 2014 5:06:00 GMT
My thesis is being reviewed. I'm sure there will be more edits. You can write the logging camp fic! Or, maybe we can make CosmicCalvacade? And you can write companion fics where William discovers his Barbarian and another where he's at the mercy of Julia. I think CosmicCalvalcade writes solely for fanfic.net...? Sorry to say my crackfic will probably never leave my imagination: I only get up the energy to make the occasional re-captioned image. XD But I'm reallllllllllllllllllllllllllly thinking about it. And thinking about it. Tie!Dominatrix Julia is winning.  Credit: 22OntarioStreet |
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I'm on vacation, plus Mr. Tokyobelle helps out with the bills. 
), but I don't understand why Julia would be such a tease to the poor guy. Why is she messing with William's head? Is this the way to get him to propose, or does she just enjoy what she's doing to him?
