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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 8:48:07 GMT
I wonder if there's actually a history of that. There's an old anime called Rurouni Kenshin with an episode that suggested kissing was one of the new "European things" in late 19th century Japan. I've searched, can't find anything online. I was kinda hoping they'd go to Paris for their honeymoon and learn 'French kissing." Yeah, I searched too. There's no mention of it before WWI, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't happening-I think people just got a lot bolder and more public after the war and the rise of the liberated flapper. Prior to that, I still think some people got frisky behind closed doors, and I have no doubt that Julia would have been one of those forward thinkers. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 8:49:35 GMT
I've searched, can't find anything online. I was kinda hoping they'd go to Paris for their honeymoon and learn 'French kissing." I always wondered if that's what Julia actually had in mind when William told her (though I think she understood perfectly well) about Guillaume saying he ought to be a little more French.  Not sure about the actual PRACTICE, but according to this article the English idea of "French Kissing" is post World War I: bigstory.ap.org/article/french-kiss-finally-enters-french-dictionaryAnd the French didn't even have their own French word for it until 2013! They thought it was a Florentine kiss!  But as we've learned from other words, they were in use long before they made it in a dictionary. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 9:01:01 GMT
I've always wondered how William will deal with Julia's wealth, it's never been addressed in the show. I'm not sure it will bother him much but her standing in the community because of it may be something for him to deal with. He's not exactly a social butterfly dragonfly. I've been thinking about this because Julia went from hating her "country club" upbringing to being "dowdy" (someone who didn't care about wealth) to being quite a fashion plate to being trapped in a marriage in which she was stifled by the hypocrisies of the upper class. She has quite conflicting experiences and feelings where wealth is concerned. Then again, I think if she sees William in the same threadbare robe he was convalescing in half a dozen years ago, I think she will demand that he upgrade a bit and show her that she's worth some new night clothes! I suspected William did care what what Julia was wearing-look how he also seemed so surprised and was so complimentary when she was dressed up or out of her usual environment (Elementary, My Dear Murdoch and That Annoying Red Planet) but also in TGM when he compliments her and brazenly checks out her ass. While I think he was starting to like her before then, and wouldn't blame her for not dressing up to handle dead bodies in the morgue, he doesn't really start to notice her until she's dressed up. TV William is quite clothes horse-he cares about his appearance. The robe and PJ's may not have been a high priority for him because fewer people saw them. However, I like the idea of Julia gifting him new loungewear for their wedding. Even is he is channeling Hugh Hefner. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 9:04:23 GMT
That's all I could find. Nothing about kissing in North America. I would imagine it wouldn't make it's way here until it had spread over Europe. Wonder what the French immigrants to Canada did though.... I don't think we should be dividing it by country. Prostitutes would be bringing risque practices all over. I think it's just a question of conventions. Romance starts from the imagination: books, plays, watching what other couples are doing. Women weren't seeing a lot of French kissing, so I doubt their romantic imagination would be captured by it. Therefore, it would not be on the list of moves a gentleman would pull out to woo a lady. However, once they were married, if a gentleman had been introduced to said practice in his roving days, then he might persuade his wife to give it a shot. It's different today because TV and movies have added a great deal to the "visual vocabulary" of love making. So now a guy would be expected to French kiss to show passion. (I think this has been kind of a trap for them, though. It's hard to master French kissing. None of the guys I've ever dated have been good at it.) This it true, but as I looked up French kissing, I learned that it had mentions in the Kama Sutra, something we suspect (even if just in Fanon) that William and Julia both have. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 9:06:46 GMT
As long as prostitutes had experience with a man that knew the technique. Did the men actually kiss the prostitutes though ... maybe in the Music Academy but that was very high class and it was as much about having a good time as sex. I don't think there was a lot of watching what other couples were doing, kissing in public wasn't something people did. Remember what Darcy said about William and Julia being seen kissing in public, quite scandalous. Actually up to that point I don't think we actually saw them kissing in public, they were barely touching hands in public. French kissing might count as an exotic practice - but probably something to be done in a room rather than out on the street. Any sort of kissing in public would probably be considered crude if not scandalous. That's another reason I'm inclined to think The Green Muse went a little farther in William's imagination than it actually went on the picnic blanket. It happened, Snacky.  You're not convincing me otherwise-it was alcohol. I can personally attest to doing things under the influence of alcohol that I would never have done sober.  |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 9:11:36 GMT
Any sort of kissing in public would probably be considered crude if not scandalous. That's another reason I'm inclined to think The Green Muse went a little farther in William's imagination than it actually went on the picnic blanket. He's shown himself quite capable of doing things he wouldn't normally when having an 'out of William' experience, such as with Anna in Bristol when he'd lost his memory. In The Green Muse he wasn't just under the influence but under the influence of a very potent drink. I'm sure he wouldn't have done half the things he did if he'd been himself. Out of William experience is a perfect way to describe it. Which is why I think that in the past, William gained some experience with the ladies in some form. However, there's also a William who seems very much the 40 y/o Virgin. Hence, my duality theory. In the end, I just don't know, and choose to believe in both. Try it, it's fun! |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 9:13:13 GMT
His suit showed up again in England (as well as his hat. unless he pulled the suit out of the hat.). Hey, maybe the Queen's gratitude bought him a Bespoke Tailor for life! I always wondered where the suit came from. Was it the one he'd been wearing when he first encountered Keating? Maybe he managed to salvage it when he got to Montreal. Not sure where he stashed it in Bristol though. Maybe he did just pull it out of that very magic Homburg! If he did I want one!! Yeah, me too. That's a good point that I didn't think of-that's some hat. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 9:14:50 GMT
He's shown himself quite capable of doing things he wouldn't normally when having an 'out of William' experience, such as with Anna in Bristol when he'd lost his memory. In The Green Muse he wasn't just under the influence but under the influence of a very potent drink. I'm sure he wouldn't have done half the things he did if he'd been himself. lol "Out of William" experience. I'm sure Julia is already working on how to bring these on! This explains my fics, LOL! |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 9:16:28 GMT
Oooooh, BAMF William. Nice. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Sept 19, 2014 14:10:27 GMT
I think the only real time I had them French kissing was after he learned it from future Julia and then went back to his time to try it out on past Julia. This was a fic...not just in my head. Dang you for intimidating me with the size of your opus. Still need to make some inroads into that... Perhaps someone could make a list of order of best approach for me...? oh oh am i someone? i'd suggest the shorter ones first and if you can stand those, work your way up. well some of them are supposed to be read in order, those two 'future' fics being a good example. if you gave me an idea of the sort of thing you're interested in reading right now, i could try to gave a suggestion or two. |
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Post by CosmicCavalcade on Sept 19, 2014 14:11:12 GMT
but then what's up with the temple of doom? Isn't that the episode that relates to the Freemasons? So the freemasons are mining? |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 15:03:22 GMT
Dang you for intimidating me with the size of your opus. Still need to make some inroads into that... Perhaps someone could make a list of order of best approach for me...? oh oh am i someone? i'd suggest the shorter ones first and if you can stand those, work your way up. well some of them are supposed to be read in order, those two 'future' fics being a good example. if you gave me an idea of the sort of thing you're interested in reading right now, i could try to gave a suggestion or two. I'm going to recommend this one: www.fanfiction.net/s/9151356/1/No-More-SorrowIt's how Julia handles the matter with Darcy appropriately rather than passively waiting for someone to take care of the problem for her. |
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Post by Fallenbelle on Sept 19, 2014 15:05:21 GMT
Isn't that the episode that relates to the Freemasons? So the freemasons are mining? Are they mining naked? (Sorry, SG1 reference-couldn't help it.) Still, BEEEEEEFCAAAAKE!!!!! |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 19, 2014 15:17:09 GMT
I've searched, can't find anything online. I was kinda hoping they'd go to Paris for their honeymoon and learn 'French kissing." Yeah, I searched too. There's no mention of it before WWI, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't happening-I think people just got a lot bolder and more public after the war and the rise of the liberated flapper. Prior to that, I still think some people got frisky behind closed doors, and I have no doubt that Julia would have been one of those forward thinkers. As long as she'd kissed another forward thinker. I very much doubt Darcy was one! Guess it depends on who she was with in university. |
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Post by Hodge on Sept 19, 2014 15:26:30 GMT
I've been thinking about this because Julia went from hating her "country club" upbringing to being "dowdy" (someone who didn't care about wealth) to being quite a fashion plate to being trapped in a marriage in which she was stifled by the hypocrisies of the upper class. She has quite conflicting experiences and feelings where wealth is concerned. Then again, I think if she sees William in the same threadbare robe he was convalescing in half a dozen years ago, I think she will demand that he upgrade a bit and show her that she's worth some new night clothes! I suspected William did care what what Julia was wearing-look how he also seemed so surprised and was so complimentary when she was dressed up or out of her usual environment (Elementary, My Dear Murdoch and That Annoying Red Planet) but also in TGM when he compliments her and brazenly checks out her ass. While I think he was starting to like her before then, and wouldn't blame her for not dressing up to handle dead bodies in the morgue, he doesn't really start to notice her until she's dressed up. TV William is quite clothes horse-he cares about his appearance. The robe and PJ's may not have been a high priority for him because fewer people saw them. However, I like the idea of Julia gifting him new loungewear for their wedding. Even is he is channeling Hugh Hefner.Certainly William compliments her when she's dressed up, she's even more beautiful and he does have an eye for the ladies. Too bad he doesn't know what to do with them! However I doubt he expected her to dress up for her work in the morgue. Now she's a psychiatrist she's always well dressed. Yes, William is a clothes horse but I'm not sure he expects everyone else to be. |
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You're not convincing me otherwise-it was alcohol. I can personally attest to doing things under the influence of alcohol that I would never have done sober. 
